lazycrockett said:

I thought it was obvious too, but then there was another time when Lorne made a remark that was definitely hetero.

I think Lorne just liked everyone.

sextonseven said:

Not sure if in the Buffyverse that could be counted as evidence of hetero-ness. Xander made some wickedly ghey comments, and he's considered canonically straight.

The writers just like to have fun with the characters, I think.

meow85 said:

I think what it meant was that nothing can be taken for granted on that show. Was it obvious Willow was gay the way she was swooning over Xander the first two seasons?

That is so sad. I loved Lorne.

sextonseven said:

Well I think that with demons, vamps, werewolves(one can hope), that human sexuality doesn't apply per sec.

lazycrockett said:

Do it do it do it! It's just starting to get GOOD!

sextonseven said:

Not at all IMO. What with her Xander-love and her dating wolfboy, you'd think she'd have been running for Breeder of the Year. That was one great thing about the two series though, that you couldn't just take something like sexuality at face value. It's not that simple in real life, after all.

CarrieMpls said:

Episode 6 renewed my interest. Before that, I thought the series was just okay.

meow85 said:

I totally agree. And I'm not suggesting that Lorne was straight either because of one comment--let's be real here. Only that Joss' shows likes to keep the viewers guessing and leave many things undefined.

meow85 said:

sadly, no. i would never joke about someone dying

sextonseven said:

Remember Andrew? Though they never said it, he was presented as queer as a catfart for most of his appearances and probably in love with Warren and in lust with Spike. But the last time we see him he walks off with a pair of smoking hot ladies on his arm.

cborgman said:

I meant when I saw it on the MSN homepage. There've been some pretty tasteless "jokes" in the media in past years.

meow85 said:

like the char of "andrew" it was broadly hinted, but never really discussed. "willow" and "tara" were the out chars, several others straddle the line. "xander" almost ended up being the out gay one according to whedon. he set it in motion from the beginning that either "xander" or "willow" were going to be gay

BlueZebra said:

yea, that depressed me too. he was 2 years older than me, and with the health problems i have had the last few years, it kind of jolted me a little

meow85 said:

whedon said that was supposed to be two guys and two girls, and casting fucked it up, and he wasn't directing that episode. he said he had wished he made them go back and reshoot, but was worried about budget

cborgman said:

Yeah, I heard that, and thinking about it I can see how they were preparing for either/or.

There were loads of subtle Spike and Angel moments, and I once read an essay on the not-so-hidden trans identity of Ben/Glory. Even ol' Buff herself has had some queer experience now in the comics. The shows were very subversive as far as sexuality goes. Most shows that have a gay character have maybe only one or two, it's clearly defined who is and who isn't, and those queer characters that are there don't get to have a whole lot of overt sexuality.

Can you think of any other series that featured a lesbian witch orgasm song?

cborgman said:

Really? I wasn't aware of that.

Having two girls could've been and was by some people brushed off as Andrew's hags, but a boy and a girl or some other like combination might have been much more interesting.

meow85 said:

i agree. instead of catergorizing characters by their sexualities and defining them in black and white, they painted a whole lot of shades of grays on those shows.

i really think the buffyverse is the most progressive television show in history as far as broad sexuality goes.

and fuck, when's the last time you saw ANY female orgasm portrayed with any kind of sincerity and maturity on tv, period?

cborgman said:

He was only 9 years older than me.


Young peoples' deaths are so much more upsetting to me than when it's an older person. A year or so ago Rolling Stone had a feature on soldiers who'd died overseas and all but the officers were younger than me. I literally started bawling in the store where I was reading it and had to put it back on the shelf.

meow85 said:

from wiki:

"It has to be said: the Andrew scene in "The Girl in Question" was a victim of me dropping the ball. I specifically said there should be a party of men AND women, all glamorous and Italian, waiting for Andrew. I wasn't there when it was shot, and didn't have the time/money/energy to change it after the fact, though it made me crazy. Andrew's sexuality is always on the cusp of self-awareness because Andrew is stunted emotionally and because it's hilarious." [...] "The 'people change' thing is a hold-over from the fact that the scene was originally written for Dawn (but Michelle turned us down). The idea was, there's little Dawn, then in the last scene there's hot grown-up Dawn going out on the town, a heavy visual support of people changing (since Spike and Angel always see her as older brothers do)."[2]

cborgman said:

Good gravy.

I almost wish they'd been able to do the Dawn version, even if it meant we'd miss seeing Andrew's joyous reaction at finding Spike not dead.

cborgman said:

Co-sign. ESPECIALLY when you consider the bulk of the fanbase was teenage girls. Those shows did what no one with that demographic ever dared to before. Kudos to everyone involved for that.

I was so sad when I found out about this today. So young.

Vendetta1 said:

Vendetta1 said:

so young, so talented, so sweet.
sad sad sad

Aw how sad RIP I really liked his character in both series.

So sad! I loved him on Angel
He was one of my favorite characters

thekidsgirl said:

He was till he killed the hottest guy on the show.

meow85 said:

Mr. Forehead!?