ThirdandFinal said:

gotcha, and I agree that what an adult chooses to do is their choice, and not necessarily shameful or wrong, I'd only think twice if there was a kid depending on me or looking up to me.

same goes for using drugs, smoking, drinking, generally hurting myself--all the great things we get to do as adults!

meow85 said:

I wouldn't say that's almost always women. With men it's the madonna/whore problem. They'll keep strippers in business, but they wouldn't, say, date or marry one. And they'd never allow their sister/daughter/niece/whatever to become one.

NDRU said:

I think not all strippers are hookers too, though I guess it's a fine line

pplrain said:

Nonsense, being a prostitute doesn't make systematically one a drug addict

TonyVanDam said:

Kids will find something to harass each other about even in the best of situations. The best thing Jenna (or anyone else in that business who has kids) can do is teach their children that there's no shame in it -because there really isn't.

NDRU said:

What message would that be?

I don't think there's anything wrong with prostitution. Sad if the person was forced into it by desperation of addiction or exploitation, but there are just as many examples where that isn't the case as where it is.

What, to you, is so horrible about sex work that someone should be ashamed of it, or worry it's a bad example?

ThirdandFinal said:

In some countries, it's even legal and unionized. As it should be everywhere IMO.

pplrain said:

Essentially what you're saying is that people who engage in sex work have no morals, or at least have less than you. It's nice to know we'll never have a shortage of self-important people who think they're better than others.

Most strippers are not prostitutes. Some are, not most.

pplrain said:

Unbelievable...

CarrieMpls said:

You do have a point, but it is in my experience almost always women who are the first to look down their noses at strippers or prostitutes, and who are the most vocal about it.

meow85 said:

So you're saying that this is simply not true?

Unfortunately, this is generally the case. Most do come from very troubled backgrounds. Those that do not and are clean are the exception.

meow85 said:

Well I'm late in re-joining the discussion, but one thing I feel I should clarify is that I have no problem with anyone selling sex to pay bills. Where I live I speak to prostitutes in the touristy red light district every time I go to a cafe or musical. I'm just sayin' that it ain't for me.

There's something so spiritual an transformative in the sexual exchange for me (personally) that I just can't be dippin' and divin' all into a whole bunch of folks sexually I don't have familiarity or a strong sense of connection with.

Now what other folks want to do is their own business. But for me, romp-loving Scorpionic sexual powerhouse that I am ...


....shit, I just can't sell it...that's all I'm saying. Give me the Mickey D fast food polo and I'll fuck my beloved when I get home

...keep in mind,I don't have kids...if a mom has mouths to feed I could see how her survivalist/protectionist mode would kick in for her to make the most money possible to keep a roof over her kids head and keep their tummies full.

...but as long as I ain't got mouths to feed when my back's against the wall...

I would feel better mopping floors, or burning your burger and fries


[Edited 3/26/09 7:42am]

Ottensen said:

meow85 said:

the judgemental attitudes on this board are unbelievable.

And since we're making generalizations here, most people that look donw their noses and think they're better than others have the Biggest skeletons in their closets.

1sexymf said:

For sure. I'll agree to that.

But I'm not exactly why people get so bent out of shape when people talk in general terms. Sure there are exceptions, no one is disputing that, but that doesn't make things (generally speaking) any less factual.
[Edited 3/26/09 8:24am]

Wow this thread made a 360' turn.

I know quite a few girls that work in the industry and they come from great families with substance and none of the girls are drug addicts nor alcoholics, never have been. They are simply talented in different ways and can appreciate the beauty of the body and the technique it takes to stripdance. For most of them it's a business, like the construction industry, but for chicks. They use their toned bodies to make money, they just don't do as much physical labor as a construction worker does.

In saying that there are dancers that do party hard but many of them don't. Here in Oz less than 20% of the girls do drugs because the party girls are getting pushed out of the industry more and more each year. In the major Australian cities dancers have to get a licence and need security clearance to do so. Which means they get a police check prior to employment and drug screening tests. If they don't get cleared, they don't get their licence.

Personally I've met and know of many drug addicted peeps that are pilots, air hostesses, lawyers, barristers, high court judges, priests, law secretaries, general managers, CEO's, professional sports players etc then I do of strippers.

JustErin said:

My experience has been that when people talk in general terms, they tend to do it from their own preconceived notions or stereotypes. I'm not taking offense to that though, because everyone is entitled their own opinion.
I do, however, think it is quite narrow minded of those expressing how strippers are "bad, sleazy, easy, loose, classless, moraless lost souls." That's just as bad as forming racist opinions based on stereotypes. But that's another thread.

JustErin said:

Is it really a fact that most strippers are prostitutes and drug addicts? Not some, not many, but MOST? I don't know any strippers so I can't say.

1sexymf said:

Yikes, I personally never said anything like that...but ya, some people do say that.

sextonseven said:

Try talking to people who work for social outreach programs and see what they say. I'm not talking so much about strippers, more about prostitutes.

JustErin said:

Most of the prostitutes I see on the streets here appear to be drug users, but I wouldn't necessarily say the same for strippers

thekidsgirl said:

I suppose it varies from country to country. Here in the USA, which for some reason despite being the biggest consumer of strip clubs, porn and prostitution still tends to look at adult entertainment as some type of mortal sin, I would say that the number of strippers, exotic dancers, and Playboy-type models who come from troubled backgrounds is about 40% to 50% percent and dropping rapidly. As for those who purely just take off all their clothes for cash and nothing else, over half of those women come from good homes and had no abuse or drug issues growing up; they're doing it to pay for school and they are proud of their bodies.

Now as for prostitution and or doing porn, it's a different story. I would say that about 80% of the women turning tricks for a living have some type of past trauma in their lives, whether they were physically or sexually abused, witnessed such abuse growing up, or were heavily into drugs and alcohol. And those who don't have past issues most likely are working as high class escorts who are in it for the money and prestige of having high-class clientele (e.g., Mayflower Madam, Heidi Fleiss). And as for porn stars (not the accidental type who film themselves having sex with their boyfriends and put the video up online, but the professional contract girls), it's about 95% who come from troubled backgrounds. That's not to say that they aren't proud of their bodies or love having sex; it's just that these more extreme expressions of sexuality are a result of past trauma.

Now it appears that in Europe and Australia, the sex industry is more highly regulated, and it's almost like having to pass a nursing exam and getting a certification in order to practice sex work. It would seem that sex workers are probably as safe to be around as doctors or nurses, and you're more likely to catch a debilitating disease from a fast food worker or auto mechanic than you are from a hooker.

meow85 said:

I met prostitutes when I was homeless, seemed like they were the only human beings paying attention to homeless people. For the first time in my destitution I wasn't invisible anymore.
We just had simple chat, they sometime invited me to share a meal or a cup of tea; nothing outstanding but it meant alot to me at this time.

I never judged them and they returned me the same courtesy (no need to say I never asked anything about heir job). From what I saw those I met weren't on any drug and seemed to dispose of their freedom the way they wanted to (no pimping involved).

If you could meet those women you'd see they all have a particular story on their own to share, many of them were from slavic countries and had 3 kids at home to feed and raise. It takes a lot of courage to swallow one's pride and self esteem when you enter this business. I can imagine how they feel.
Of course some prostitutes do this for money and fun but I'm not saying all the prostitues in the world entered this market as a vocation.

Prostitutes I met got a heart of gold.

JustErin said:

I wasn't directing that at you Erin - I know you didn't say anything like that.

728huey said:

I was up to my eyeballs in debt when I graduated. I don't know or speak for anyone else when I say my first job out of college didn't pay me shit. I had to put myself through college and had loans to pay off - loans to PHEAA which never go away. You can not claim bankruptcy or get out of paying them. if you stop paying them, and you ar working, they will garnish your wages and takes 10% of your paycheck - you have no say because it's mandated by the state where I live.
So if you want to jusge me - whatever go ahead. I am in a much better place financially now be able to pay off my debt at an early age made it worth it. I didn't have kids to be a role model too and was responsible only for myself. I didn't ome from a broken home, I wasn't sexually abused, assaulted or molested, I was not and have never been a drug user or abuser or any of the other stereotypes that have been proclaimed on this thread.

1sexymf said:

On the contrary; I'm not making judgments about you at all. I had just indicated that the majority of women who get into stripping as opposed to porn or prostitution are emotionally well adjusted and come from happy family backgrounds. I was just stating that the reasons most of these women get into stripping is to get a lot of money very quickly in order to pay for college or vocational school. And the great majority of women who pose naked for Playboy-type publications is to attempt to get a leg up in Hollywood or on reality TV. I have absolutely no issues with that at all.

I also don't have any issues with porn stars or prostitutes either; I'm just stating that in most of those cases, those women have come from troubled backgrounds. That doesn't make them bad, evil, stupid, or immoral people; it just indicates that they've had some past life issues to deal with.

728huey said:

I didn't say YOU were - on the contrary - you at least have the forethought and intelligence to realize that not everyone can be placed in a neat and convenient little box i.e, strippers are moraless, prostiutes are junkies, pron stars are troubled whores, etc.

I used to take "pole" classes. My teacher was a pro at the whole stripper thing and was able to work that pole like no one's business She always made it look classy, never trashy....
I like to "work the pole" for the fun and its a great workout.

But I guess if I had to for the $$$, yeah I would. But that would certainly take away all the excitement. It would just become a day-to-day job

amorbella said: