Vendetta1 said:[quote]

Huggiebear said:

Very good points but people buy these assholes records by the millions.[/quote]


Are you underestimating the the numbers of the less intelligent members of society?

Early pre 1988 rap was very inclusive, gays could dig De La Soul and A tribe called quest, the only openly homophobic 80s rappers I can think of are Ice T, Too short, NWA, LL Cool J and Public Enemy, all of them are sort of pre/proto/early gangsta. There was also a rapper called Intelligent Hoodlum and early stars like Kurtis Blow, may have not been pro gay, but at least ambivalent. In those days rap was sweet and innocent.
Even songs like "The Message" which are pro black and nationalistic were definetly not negative or hating on people.

Huggiebear said:

Even The Message uses the word "fag". Rapper's Delight calls Superman a "fairy".

Rappers are closet homosexuals themselves!!!!!

I'm amazed no one has put up the picture of 50 Cent with that dildo or whatever it is

kcwm said:

what?

minneapolisFunq said:

What it is, is stupid shit.

Ace said:

You said it. I like PE, but I doubt I'd ever put any of my money toward buying any of their albums. Hypocrisy is a little hard for me to get behind. You can't preach about ending racism and racial equality out of one side of your mouth, and slam another ethnic group out the other.

Fuck the WORLD! Fuck dem bitches, MAYN!

In general, I think they tend to use derogatory words against homosexuals the same way they throw around the n-word. More or less, casually rather than meaning to wish any harm on the gay community. But really, the casual use of these words is bad enough on their own. They legitimize the use of this language to a large percentage of their listening audience.
Prince dropped the same n-word bomb on Pussy Control, a mere reflection of his trying to make his less-than-dope rhymes 'legit' by using the word so casually. He was probably trying to flip the hip hop image on it's head with a female anthem, sort of a call to arms, and ironically by doing so resorted to language that could have been better relegated to any number of throwaway rap acts of that time perpetuating stereotypes of supposed 'black culture'.

didn't Beenie Man say gays should be beaten to death? Yeah, that's casual.

Vendetta1 said:

I meant in general as I stated above. There are always those who go to far. And I meant with my message above that even the casual use of the word is bad enough.

nastyarse said:

Gotcha!

kcwm said:

I'm amazed that you still don't know it was for his sex toy range. As in, it was supposed to be modeled on himself...are you saying he's gay with...himself?

purplesweat said:

There's no way in hell Fiddy's packing that much. That dildo was the size of a small animal.

meow85 said:

Well, duh, of course he's gonna exaggerate the size. Doesn't make him gay.

purplesweat said:

Plenty of rappers are in the closet, I guarantee you. Fiddy's been vocally anti-gay and anti-women in the past, which makes him a prime suspect in asking who's gay in that business. It's an extremely rare straight man who's actually comfortable with who he is that still knocks gays and women. Generally speaking, those that do are trying to hide something.

meow85 said:

No shit, sherlock.

My point is that the dildo he was holding was HIS, rendering your little "joke" pointless.

purplesweat said:

What "joke"?


Are you negative and confrontational for shits n giggles, or is this in fact a behavioural disorder of yours?

meow85 said:

A poster said they wanted to see the pic of 50 with the dildo because somehow that proved he was a closet homosexual. I said it was from his own range, you totally ignored that and cracked some "joke" about it being the size of a small animal.

purplesweat said:

A behavioural disorder, then. Poor thing. They've got pills for that these days, you know.
[Edited 3/4/09 13:13pm]

I don't know exactly what the message is.

"G's up Hoes down" is some kind of uber-macho message that actually seems to value men more than women. I don't believe women are actually more important, but as a man I personally value women more than men. Not that I don't like men, but I like women more.

*WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY WILL ONLY BE AKNOWLEGED OR EVEN UNDERSTOOD BY A FEW. SO BE IT*

i am almost reluctant to even share this with you because i know too well the way this site looks at my people

MRGee said:

ART REFLECTS SOCIETY
(1)Rap, like most art (but even moreso in rap somehow), reflects society as a whole without the PC filter. Just as it is simplier to notice and aknowlege the sickness, hypocrisy, bigotry, discrimination and distruction of mankind- one can do the same within hip hop. Also, Rap reflects the community from which it was born, and all the flaws subject to said community- as well as humanity as a whole.

TO ERROR IS HUMAN

(2)Rappers, being human first, can only represent what they have been conditioned to know and believe. This conditioning, again, comes from one's community and society at large. So in a sexist society- one would find examples of the sexist rapper. And in a homophobic community, one would find the same. I would wager, there are as many homophobic/sexist rappers as there are homophobic/sexist doctors...only one of these is required by their profession to remain policially correct when providing their thoughts in the workplace.

THE BLACK MALE IN AMERICAN MEDIA & EATING OFF HOLLYWOOD
(3)Rap, being one of the most (if not THE most) successful black artform to reach a mass audience before being conolized by whites, is unfortunately subject
to work and exist within the bounds of what is expected and cast upon the black male as an american figure. Black men are only aknowledged (or rather aknowleged on a larger scale) when feared. Thus the common man becomes oversexed, overviolent, and ultra-productive, in order to be revered. MUCH LIKE MANKIND AS A WHOLE the majority sets the tone, and many rappers disregard their own voice in an attempt to be accepted and succesful.

CHILDREN WILL SPEAK AS CHILDREN SPEAK

ALSO Rap is dominated by youth culture and finds movement in the voice of the youth. one cannot expect a child to speak with the maturity of man. nor can one expect ALL men to speak with any maturity at all....by this i mean, a group of 20 somethings will be A GROUP OF 20 SOMETHINGS. you can find the same behavior in college only rap is BROUGHT to you by a media that seeks to exploit is cool by presenting it as true packaged rebellion

if the world is full of fool at large, surely a smaller group-when focused on- will showcase the same overabundance of foolishness.

NDRU said:

"G's Up Hoes down" and "Money over bitches" is simply a "campaign slogan" if you will for awareness among men. When the boss in "I think I love my wife" says: "you can lose alot of money chasing women, but you'll never lose women chasing money" he's saying the same thing- only few of you will fault him for this, because it is less threatening in its delivery. ANYONE WHO LISTENS TO RAP INTENTLY ENOUGH TO CONSIDER THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THINGS ARE BEING DISCUSSED WOULD KNOW AND CONFIRM THIS.

Violater said:

exactly. and i would also question this? how many people here engaged in this discussion know, eat, sleep, and live in the hip hop community as a participant?


i learned long ago AS A PERSON that people as animals rarely listen to anyones voice but their own, AS A RAPPER..i learned that the world does not understand me because they dont want to [see: selective hearing]

=====
p.s.=>if you cannot see, by context, why i found it neccessary to place these words- you are not ready to understand the artform (and persons) you take apparent delight in spitting on.

Jay-Z said:

Andre300 said:

LauyrnHill said:

...you know what i doubt anyone i'll even respond..i'll check when i get home

sirpsycho said

I can understand this (and I've listened intently, I promise), but I do question the accuracy of such slogans for the message they send.

The problem is not that they are threatening (in your words) but who they are threatening (or demeaning or insulting) to. A slogan like Burn Hollywood Burn is threatening to "the establishment" where G's Up Hoes Down makes an oppressed group (women) the victim--even if the intent is not to victimize women but to raise up men. Does the slogan really reflect the message?

I'm not saying that it absolutely does not, but it's a question in my mind if I'm honest. Do you think those messages, "money over bitches" for example has had an overall positive effect on a community? Maybe it has; I wouldn't completely dismiss that possibility.

NDRU said:

to be honest, i think ALL messages are as effective (positively or negatively) as how they are heard...

if one is not raised with enough ability to understand and discren opinion from fact, then surely they will take either statement...

-"G's Up Hoes Down"

or

-"you can lose alot of money chasing women..."

...as confirmation that women are to be regarded negatively.




if one is raised to observe in a greater context (as we both apparently were) then one can be privy to these sentiments and still come forth with a respect for women that suggests otherwise..


side note: (i forgot this before) G's Up Hoes Down- in its most popular incantation [snoop doggs "gin n juice"] was actually originally written as "C's up, B's down"- in reference to LA gang culture. yet since snoop couldn't say this on an album promoted by suge knight (a blood) ....C's Up became G's Up...and so on...


ALSO...M.O.B (money over bitches) is mostly known by way of tupac....again, the original use of M.O.B. is a blood reference (i cant recall which exactly.."Mob...{something}...Bloods")...but pac didnt want to outright rep a gang (even though he didnt do a great job)...and began to use it as a campaign of awareness [as exemplified in other writings: "Wonder Why they Call U Bitch" etc.]

I dig what you are saying SirPsycho but I disagree with you.

Huggiebear said:

i do remember him, he wasnt bad at all, and got alot of attention on Hot 97
[Edited 3/4/09 16:37pm]

Vendetta1 said:

what else is new?




care to retort?

SirPsycho said:

I grew up a hip-hop head. So...you and I ain't gonna agree on what hip-hop is today. Does hip-hop today reflect society? Do our men think our women are nothing more than whores? Is being gay the new "nigger"?