meow85 said:

Ummm depends on who is drawing him, over all I don't really have a problem with how batman is drawn.

Efan said:

There's no OFFENSIVE way to sexualize the average macho lunkhead male (Or even the nerdy kind, especially if their fantasies are being fulfilled when reading this trite material). Unless, maybe, if we were to depict a fat piece of shit couch potato who isn't well-endowed, can't get it up, and gets no respect. If you've got a a slouch of a fucker that plays the antagonist, then MAYBE I can see how it may offend some. But really, let's be honest. It just isn't possible. So, while I understand someone like meow85's plight, you have to look at the demographics of comic book collectors (Which is clearly discernible, whether you're an avid reader or not). Peeps are looking to treat that crowd of slob-nerds who feast on that type of shit. Just saying.

Efan said:

Agreed. And folks outside the intended demographic taking offense confuse me. It's like all those folks who find porn offensive. That's great and whatever, but don't poo poo on my jackoff material!

nastyarse said:

That's cool. But I would also suggest there's always been a huge missed opportunity with women's portrayals in comics. Wonder Woman has almost always been one of DC's lowest selling books. So it doesn't attract all that many male readers or females, which suggests that something's not working.

nastyarse said:

.... unless that's what you're into....

Efan said:

What doesn't work about Wonder Woman is that males generally aren't interested in books starring female superheroics and females aren't usually attracted to the superhero genre, if they're buying comics at all.

meow85 said:

No, not all of them. Mr. Fantastic, the Human Torch, Dr. Strange, Cyclops, even Spider-man. They don't have the same musculature as Thor, Hulk or Juggernaut. Spider-man's listed as 5'10"/165, but he can lift 10 tons(of course in real life, his bones would be crushed). That's why it's called 'fantasy'.

uPtoWnNY said:

Don't forget about the Atom

meow85 said:

"No. Not different. Only different in your mind." - Yoda

kpowers said:

Or Bouncing Boy.

uPtoWnNY said:

have you seen the way Spider-man and Cyclops have been drawn in the last 10 years? they're just as muscled as everyone else.

meow85 said:

Ouch, I guess that's telling me!

My bad, you are correct, you didn't question the intelligence of Big tittied/Small wasted women specifically. You questioned the intelligence of all wrestlers. Which of course is much less stereotyping.
YAY me!!! I can both read AND admit when I misread something .

All I've been arguing to your points is that I don't understand why it should matter whether a SUPERheroine's waist is 30 inches or 5. If she can lift and throw a car, she can probably hold herself and her own titties upright.
All you do is come back with the same tune about REAL WOMEN's anatomy.

BTW, it doesn't make you sound smarter or even terribly clever calling me SIR or questioning my ability to read.
And neither does getting bent out of shape over hot women in comic books.

Efan said:

I see your point.
Thank you for answering that rationally and without unnecessary sarcasm.

i guess this is why i like artists like john romita, jr. so much - i've always appreciated how his illustration style is very cartoon-y and classic, and at the same time he tends to go for more natural body shapes for his characters.

johnart said:

You're welcome. I see your point as well, and you're right that it's kind of pointless to overanalyze comics and the fantasy of it all. But I think there's a tendency to go overboard with how women are portrayed (not just how they're ddrawn) in the comics world. To me, Frank Miller is the worst at this. In his work, women usually have to either be a ninja or a whore to be worthwhile at all. If it's just a matter of Power Girl having grossly exaggerated boobs, that's one thing, but I think it goes well beyond that in many cases.

sextonseven said:

Even some in the 80s weren't bad - the Watchmen women were not portrayed that way

Efan said:

I don't really read any new comic books. I do like the Golden Age comic books and have actually done many tongue in cheek paintings based on their imagery.

So I came into this thread with an opinion (strong one), but willing to listen and maybe even learn something on the subject.
I see what you're saying about how, depending on the instance the argument can be pointless or have some actual merit.
[Edited 2/2/09 8:01am]

I love the way they look.

So maybe these female super heroes like having big massive implants, nothing wrong with that - no one is claiming their massive cans are real. Or maybe they want them because they're so lean and in such great shape they lose them due to having low body fat - like bodybuilders.

Either way, with this kinda thing who cares? It's stories about people with super powers, are people upset that their power portrayals are not real to life as well?

And I've never, ever had my boobs get in the way of anything.

JustErin said:

Everything else about them is super - why not their boobs?

JustErin said:

I like the way they look too
it's over the top

JustErin said:

Oh, somehow, I doubt that.

PanthaGirl said:

The Thing is.. Naturally big boobs weigh much more than fake one's and natural boobs move in a completely different way. If any of the ladies above had naturally large boobs D,E or F boobs they wouldnt be wrestling.. They wouldnt be able to as their boobs would get in the way. I have friends and family members who r E cup and above and they are forever complaining about backache, neckache and Bra discomfort..


cant spell edit
[Edited 2/2/09 8:50am]

applekisses said:

Exactly!

thekidsgirl said:

It's ok. I give you permission to like them, guilt free!!

violator said:

They don't get in the way, they are the main event.

JOYJOY said:

I don't agree with any of that. In no way have my boobs stopped me from doing even them most physical activities. I did a huge 4 hour obstacle course (in trees) this past fall with no problem at all.

JustErin said:

thank you ma'am

Interesting topic...

I learned to read with comics... and I still do to this day.

I'll add that comics are all about exaggeration, aspiration and a fulfillment of fantasy. Men and women are typically drawn bigger than life.. with exceptions. There is no way to get around the sexual aspects of a woman's anatomy. However, men are drawn much more physically 'attractive' and virile than the average joe as well... but nobody complains about that..

The problem doesn't come from the comics... but rather the insecurities of people in general. As a whole... men are just not as insecure about their personal images as women are. Women will look at a comic heroine's body (or any other woman's body like a model for instance) and compare it to their own and get upset as they feel they don't 'stack up' favorably to the exaggerated proportions of the comic female. Men look at the handsome muscle bound guys in comics, sports and then their own bodies and simply say, "fuck it." And keep on reading.

Men view the fantasy as something they wish they could be. They feel that women would desire the big handsome hero who saves lives and are happy to lose themselves in that fantasy.

Women on the other hand, will also view the fantasy as something they may wish they could be...something men would be attracted to . But to them the fantasy becomes an object of envy.

The funniest thing about this subject is that there once was a time when women were indeed drawn with more 'realistic' proportions and such. But guess what.....

Women complained!

They felt that women in comics, including Wonder Woman, looked weak and helpless when compared to thier male counter parts. they also complained about the roles they portrayed as well. Artist began to draw the heroines in more 'powerful' proportions... but still wanted to keep their femininity. Face it... bigger broader shoulders with out the boobage.. is a literal drag. And that is not the image comic artist or anyone else wanted.

It wasn't until the ground breaking artist at Marvel comics and their philosophy of trying to make characters people could relate to on a more... 'human' level... that women and men characters of all body types were drawn and over the years have become the norm.

If you were to look at comics as a whole... you do have characters who are drawn 'powerful'... but you also have a hefty dose of women who aren't as exaggerated as well. As the artistry has continued to evolve... 'powerful' yet 'feminine' can exist with 'muscles'. Wonder Woman truly defines Amazon. She is tall... broad shouldered... has good muscle definition... and yes... boobies. Take away the boobies... and she would look like a long haired boy. Make them flat and our 'eyes' see less fit... less powerful.

.

meow85 said:

Wait a minute, so you want brawn AND brains?

Talk about fantasy!

JustErin said:

Same here. They really don't limit my physical activity, but trying to sleep on my stomach is a trick. I know that other women do have a lot of pain/movement issues, though. I'm just lucky I'm not one - I think it's because I'm a tall girl with a big frame and can handle the boobage. I think more petite women have a bigger challenge.