RenHoek said:

I was thinking the same damned thing.

Comic books are designed primarily for teenage boys, and older men who never outgrew their hobby of collecting them. The characters are always hypersexualized. A dumpy, homely, or more 'realistic' looking woman is NOT ever, and I mean, E-V-E-R going to be a big sell in fantasy. It may be sexist, but that's what the primary audience wants. This isn't "the industry" pushing an image so much as the industry trying to sell comics. It's like trying to sell cars, only the cars have tits.

Likewise, you're not going to find that much variation in the male love interests in romance novels designed for their female audiences. I was listening to a Romance author who was a guest once on NPR's Wait Wait - Don't Tell me, and she said they even have industry standard adjectives you always see when describing the men's legs, stomachs and shoulders.

If women want to combat truly destructive 'portrayals' of themselves, then they should turn their eyes on the fashion industry, which is geared towards them and a few gay men who wouldn't know what to do with a vagina and D-cups if they saw them anyways.

nastyarse said:

meow85 said:

What does the way they look got to do with so called weakness

Here´s what Wikipedia has to say about Power Girl´s cleavage:


Physical appearance and costumes

Power Girl's original Wally Wood artwork showed her as relatively busty but otherwise her figure and build conformed in appearance to other contemporary comic book women (see talk page for more information on the debate regarding Wood's depictions).

Power Girl was at one time portrayed as having a highly athletic but slender physique[citation needed]. Artist Alex Ross restored Power Girl's extremely busty shape in the limited series Kingdom Come, rendering her as a heavily muscled Power Woman (as if an ardent bodybuilder). This approach has been carried forward by most other artists. Power Girl is consistently depicted as a curvaceous young woman, and her physique is one of her most recognizable attributes — to the extent that various writers have acknowledged it in both serious and humorous ways.[23]

For example, Justice League Europe #37 attempts to explain Power Girl's revealing costume by having Crimson Fox question her about it; she receives the reply that the costume "shows what I am: female, healthy, and strong. If men want to degrade themselves by staring and drooling and tripping over themselves, that's their problem, I'm not going to apologize for it."

Conversely, in JSA: Classified #2 (written by Geoff Johns), Power Girl explains her cleavage-window to Superman, revealing that "the first time I made this costume, I wanted to have a symbol, like you. I just… I couldn’t think of anything. I thought eventually, I’d figure it out. And close the hole. But I haven’t." At the same time, however, the issue highlights the humorous element when a man who Power Girl has rescued is so fixated upon her chest that he doesn't even look her in the eye to thank her. A similar treatment of the character can be seen in Superman/Batman #4 (written by Jeph Loeb), in which the heroes need to distract the Toyman while Batman and Superman battle Captain Marvel and Hawkman. Seeking a way to accomplish this task, Batman notes that their opponent is a thirteen-year-old boy, and all attention goes to Power Girl, prompting her response: "What's everyone looking at me for? How am I supposed to distract... oh."

The character's costume design has varied greatly over the years. Her classic costume design from All-Star Comics #58 is that which is in use today - a red cape and belt, blue gloves and boots, and a white bodysuit sporting a cleavage-exposing window on her chest (its variable size and shape determined by the artist depicting her). During her time with Justice League Europe/America it transitioned to a capeless yellow and white bodysuit, followed by a blue and white costume with a short mini-cape, headband, with a diamond shaped opening on her chest. She has also worn a headband, as had Supergirl prior to her death in Crisis on Infinite Earths. In a guest appearance in Green Lantern, Kara is seen in her large wardrobe closet with every costume design she has ever worn in DC continuity, deciding

Anxiety said:

Yeah, but it wasn't always that way. Way back in the day, she was interesting. I loved her subtle relationship with the Huntress and the Earth 2 limits on her powers. Now she's just a joke.

Vendetta1 said:

That I agree with. Even the other woman in the first shot of Power Girl is dressed in fishnets. Come on.

I'm not defending the sexist style of comic books. I think it's an outgrowth of the same juvenile way women are depicted in the action and sci-fi genres of pop culture -- comic books, films, TV and video games. Dial all of it back, please.

Efan said:

Earth 2 limits superpowers ? How come ? I never really followed the Earth 2 stories, I thought they were just a bit more nostalgic , more a reflection of DC´s Golden Age comics but I never knew that there was a specific reason for limited powers on Earth 2.Could you please elaborate `?

It's no different of male comic characters, who are drawn ridiculously huge. I mean, where's the female version of this site?

http://shirtless-superher...gspot.com/
[Edited 2/1/09 15:25pm]

johnart said:

Sir, I do congratulate you on your profound lack of reading skills. To so grossly misinterpret and misread is truly an art.

Real women with large breasts often have poor posture and back trouble because of the added weight. That is a fact. It is also a fact that comic book women are often portrayed with little to no visible muscle mass, and someone without adequate strength is NOT going to be able to take on a whole gang.

As for the intelligence question? Where in Christ's name did you get that?

Read what I wrote first, THEN respond.

johnart said:

You think...male superheroes...are drawn as sex symbols for women?

Forgive my hysterical laughter, sir.

You have a lot to learn about women if you think stud calenders and a cartoon who'se shoulders are drawn too wide for a doorway and head too small to contain anything are the same thing.

nastyarse said:

Holy Christ, another person who decided not to read.

Yes, I do take issue with the sexist portrayals in comic books. And I do take issue with the stupid little boys who find such literally impossible images attractive, even. What does it say about the human race that certain males are drawn to figures that can't exist over a realistically attractive female form? Nobody said the lady heroes have to be dumpy, and that was pretty fucking ignorant of you to think the opposite of impossible is that IMO.

You gonna tell me real life hotties like Angelina Jolie, Rosario Dawson and others are dumpy because they have bodies that exist? Don't be stupid.

BUT THAT IS NOT THE POINT OF THE THREAD.

The point in starting this thread was to look atn female comic character's bodies from a practical standpoint. Please go back and read what I wrote, instead of responding to an issue I wasn't talking about.

The Cat's Pajamas wins. She just can't stop, won't stop like Chris & Lil' Neef.
[Edited 2/1/09 15:40pm]

viewaskew said:

It's not the same thing at all.


I can't help but notice everybody there, when and if the panel allows it, is shown sporting pretty flat swim trunks. Some readers do perceive male superheroes in a sexual way, but that's clearly not the intentions of the artists involved, while it definitely is with the women. It's not even comparable.

Compare, as an example, a day out at a North American beach. Guys are running around without shirts, but if a woman takes her bikini top off, all eyes are on her. Why? It's the same level of nudity. Easy. the situation is different.

Mysterioso said:

If you have nothing to contribute, why are you here?

meow85 said:

it's not just me

meow85 said:

I said my peace, MAN! Yeah, it's possible to be a man with a vag. And anyway, you're throwing prejudicial "false pretense" statements about things you don't even know the intricacies of. I see that you have a problem with women being overly exposed with sexually-suggestive outfits and undermined proclivities, as a result (At least, if you're actually working with LOGIC in something so fictitious as the world of comic books. BLEH! God-forbid, Superman's dick be hanging out. I guess we'd all have to whine and complain about that, too.). WOOOW! You really took me there, BRO!
[Edited 2/1/09 15:54pm]

KoolEaze said:

The Earth 2 characters were always a little less powerful than their Earth 1 counterparts. It was most obvious in the Kryptonian characters. When she was first introduced, Kara Zor-L (Power Girl) was following in her cousin Superman's footsteps of being unable to fly at first (but could leap a long ways) and very strong but not as strong as Supergirl.

Efan said:

Thanks for the info

Sounds very much like Superman in the 1930s.

KoolEaze said:

Yeah, exactly. He became the Earth 2 Superman. I miss those days a lot. I know they brought the multiple earths back, but DC comics are just plain awful these days, so it's not the same.

One thing I'd add about women's portrayals in comic books is that it's a shame when you consider the huge numbers of girls and women who are reading manga now. With more and more females becoming readers of the format, it's a perfect opportunity to broaden their audience incredibly. But the mainstream DC and Marvel books adhere to somewhat sexist (and homophobic, but that's another topic) attitudes.

Efan said:

Say what you want about Joker fangirlism (one could write a book on that strange and compelling new fan subculture...) but TDK brought a LOT of women into the DC fold, and it looks like they're here to stay.

In fact, IRL I actually know more women who are hardcore into comic books than I do guys. That goes for mainstream publications like Marvel and DC, and lesser known and indie works as well.

The comic fandom hasn't been a boys-only club for a very, very long time. The sooner the companies realize this, the sooner we'll be able to get some fresh blood and fresh ideas -and with any luck move away from some of the more sexist and homophobic material.

ZombieKitten said:

Nope.

I always wondered how Batsy's supposed to be the World's Greatest Detective with a brain the size of a walnut.

meow85 said:

kpowers said:

So you don't think it's weird such a smart guy is drawn with a tiny lil head?

meow85 said:

That's cool. I know a few women into them, but far more men, but I see it changing a lot, both with superhero books and with other types. You're right about Joker fangirlism and TDK--which is ironic, to me, because I consider Frank Miller one of the most misogynistic creators in comics (maybe THE most). But he tapped into something interesting with Dark Knight.

meow85 said:

I know what the point of your thread is and I read your comments.
As you can see, my comment/post wasn't in response to your post, but to add and respond to the post I responded to.
Now to the point of your thread: It's fantasy.


What does practicality have to do with it? Batman's outfit is the silliest thing a crime fighter could wear.
Besides, big ass tits can really make a stupid storyline so much more enjoyable.

johnart said:

insecurity

nastyarse said:

Yeah. I know the solution to it all: Make your own damn comic book with a powerful, fully dressed chick that can kiss ass and make it believable (In your own viewpoint.). I don't see the big deal. Really. Men are pigs. Women have a hard time getting through in this male-dominated world, but eventually, it happens. See where I'm going with this. My points aren't COMPLETELY invalid. FUCK! Insatiable mofos, man!

Mysterioso said:

Well, women have a lot to be insecure about. But the comic book genre is the least of them.
commercials, movies, and the fashion industry are far more harmful in my opinion. Comic books are pornos for nerds, and as such , mere fantasy. Nobody expects women to REALLY look like that. But open up an Elle Magazine and you've got girls starving themselves to death to like a photoshop effigy.

nastyarse said:

By and large, men aren't exaggerated in a sexual way. They over hugely muscled, but they usually don't have to work at it. The muscles often come about through virtually no effort on their part, which is part of the fantasy of comics. Superman doesn't have to go to the gym ever. All he needs is yellow sunlight. Spider-Man just needed to get bit by a radioactive spider. And on and on. The visual appeal of male superheroes has traditionally been for the benefit of attracting boys and men. That could be disenfranchised boys who wish they had the power to fight back against bullies, guys who just like fighting action period, or anywhere in between. It's like dreaming of winning the lottery; guys often daydream of being incredibly strong. I don't think it sexualizes them.