reneGade20 said:

He probably had a dark secret life and the debt was just icing on the cake.

To say it's about his finances is silly because ANYONE that would kill his own wife and children is OBVIOUSLY suffering from some emotional/psychological issue. The financial stress may be the catalyst or spark but it's not the root problem.

SCNDLS said:

It had to be more drastic than that or it's not it at all. This man was probably a controlling psycho to begin with.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's what I'm saying, this kinda behavior doesn't JUST happen. And something about her having so many young kids screams controlling psycho to me. Not to mention dude stayed in the house overnight with the bodies. Ain't nobody halfway normal doing that shit.

SCNDLS said:

I'm sure he was despondent over his financial situation and the loss of his job, but who's to say he wasn't suffering from some sort of mental illness in the first place. This reminds me a lot of the WWE wrestler Chris Benoit who went into a rage and killed his wife and children before hanging himself a day later. A lot of people claim he went on a roid rage after taking steroids, but he had been suffering from some type of psychological condition long before he got into wrestling.

SCNDLS said:

Absolutely.

Just curious...how many of you all slamming homeboy are going to cough up the dough to support his family of seven until things turn around for them? Bear in mind, in Southern California there are NO jobs, so "when things finally turn around" for him might likely be NEVER. We are at the BEGINNING of this monster economic crisis, which for all we know will be the crisis that destroys capitalism, a crisis from which capitalism will never recover, a crisis that will lead to world war, which will be thermonuclear without a doubt. OK first, you cannot even IMAGINE the cost in SoCal of raising FIVE (1-2-3-4-FIIIIVE...my wife Camille handles the ticket money..NOW...OK sorry I shouldn't be joking about this LOL) children. I mean daycare for the youngest twins that is easily $1500/month or more. No wonder they exaggerated their income to get cheap childcare. Can you blame them? What the hell kind of sick BULLSHIT society is this we live in that doesn't put EVERY SINGLE CHILD's wellbeing before EVERY OTHER POSSIBLE CONSIDERATION? The man lived in a society where NOBODY gives a shit if you and your children live, die or eat out of trashcans. NOBODY. That is WHAT our society has become and IS - totally and completely heartless and selfish. You can call what he did cowardly all you want as a means to deflect responsibility away from yourself for this monstrous and evil society ALL of us have created TOGETHER through apathy and our own collective cowardice demonstrated by our total unwillingness to fight off corporate America as they have brazenly stolen everything in America not nailed down over the past 30 years, but his act as terrible as it was was an act of rebellion against our sick twisted and totally fucked-up society. He wants to draw attention to this, and you all STILL don't get it. Now, what he did is not what *I* would have done, but then *I* don't have five little kids. If my shit is fucked up, it's just ME. *I* can handle my shit being fucked up, at least up to a point of fucked up. He doesn't want his children to suffer. NOBODY will help him to AVOID THAT. It's ALL ON HIM - he is the MAN. If all you shit-talkers had been knocking on this man's door offering YOUR assitance to him and his family in their time of need then maybe this would not have happened. Maybe that would have given him what he really NEEDED as much as a job or money or a place to stay or debt-relief - HOPE. It DID happen precisely because NOBODY cared enough to offer either - a temporary room at the brother-in-law's spot is to be thankful for, but get real it don't even BEGIN to solve the real problems of two adults five small children no jobs crazy debt in one of the most expensive cities on the entire planet. And the question MUST be asked, how the fuck can anyone feel like a MAN showing up at another MAN'S crib who ain't even kin to you with YOUR five children that YOU can't care for? I mean, really, what the fuck does a MAN have left after THAT? The reactions of people on this thread are completely unChristian additionally - and don't start with that suicide is sin shit because Jesus - y'know the guy the religion is named for - committed suicide. He walked right into his sure death on purpose and by design - how is THAT not suicide? He knew the Romans were fixing to get his ass, and he could have easily laid low or broke north and avoided the bumrush - he did neither. He allowed himself to be get got and nailed to that cross ON PURPOSE to make a POINT about love - or the lack of it. Sound familiar? He went ON PURPOSE to his death to make a fucking point about the sickness of the society HE had to live in, and how through HIS act our entire fucked up society could be redeemed - that is to say, first MADE AWARE of its sickness, so that it could subsequently HEAL itself.

lowerregister said:

Dude, ain't nobody gon read that shit til you add some white space. The Return key is your friend, don't be scurred.

lowerregister said:

Like I said, there is no help for the everyday person.

meow85 said:

What would you replace them with?

Government is only as corrupt as the people who get up in the morning and go to work to corrupt it.
Government is people, not some blind soulless institution we are forced to struggle against. Though that, of course is the popular view.

reneGade20 said:

He could to Iraq or Afghanistan and get killed?

SUPRMAN said:

Not everyone that goes in the service gets killed. Gade's point is that there was still a viable option aside from murdering his innocent family.

SCNDLS said:

I did.
I wish I could rant that coherently.

SUPRMAN said:

You would.

SUPRMAN said:

Believe it or not, I agree with you. Things have only gotten into the state they have because people have allowed it to. It can be very comforting I suppose to think of "the man" as some non-human entity, but it's people. People that are fucking other people out of their well-beings and livelihoods. So I think we should ask ourselves what kind of a society we really are that's been allowing this system to act as it has; why we're so happy to let people be screwed out of everything, and just why we're so damned ready to point the finger of blame solely at an individual who did a profoundly dumb thing out of desperation.
[Edited 1/28/09 22:46pm]

SCNDLS said:

yeah, I got that but the point is that he'd still be just as dead. And he would have been to far from home to take out his family.

You don't think his wife is an unindicted co-conspirator in this?

meow85 said:

Two quotes always come to mind.
'A permanent solution to a temporary problem.
'Stuck in a moment and you can't get out of it.'
[Edited 1/28/09 23:21pm]

meow85 said:

I specifically said I couldn't ever do that. I love my children waaaaay too much and its just morally sick to me to harm them. If stuff was that bad, I would simply sell all my shit that will sell, buy a basic mobile home so we'd have someplace to lay our heads, and I would clean toilets if needed to keep food on the table. Theres always somewhere to work, the question is if one is determined to find a way, theres always a way...you just gotta find it. Sometimes not having a lot builds character and awakens one's inner genius.

I wouldn't say that most people dont give a shit about the foster care system. I know plenty of people who help out, and when my own children are grown, I intend to help. However, my first priority is to my own children, and I dont feel I need to apologize for that. Its a shame the way the system is, and I dont fully know the extent to how bad things are within the system. I just know that I would never send my children into it.

StillGotIt said:

So what you're saying essentially that while you know the foster care system is bad for kids now, you're perfectly willing to just wait a few years before you step up to do anything about it?

Why complain about something you know is broken, make a point of saying your own kids would never be put into the system, but leave it as is?

lowerregister said:

There are many who are not slamming this family on this thread. Maybe you re-read the posts more slowly then just skimming through them and then giving a rant.

Anyone even a family with 2 or more children can come into hard times. But to kill ones family as seeing the ONLY way out of a hard time goes a bit drastic in this case. Im sure there were other ways for them to get back on their feet( kids going to live with grandparents, renting out their home and putting things into storage) etc. Never know really he didnt want to try and that was his doing.

Some NEVER mentioned religion or Christiananity in their responses. I know I did not. Rather we believe in a religion or not was not the case and unnessacery to call some "un-Chiristian" like, IMHO. There are many here of other faiths/religions. Some beliefs actually believe killing oneself is a right of passage(I know that may be along shot) But you cant judge one or all these posters on such thing. But this is not my point.

I realize that they or many on here may have a different aspect or opinion on this matter but no need to judge them on what they may feel about this topic.

Either way how sad this family saw this kind of fate.



Just my 2 cents.
[Edited 1/29/09 4:49am]

lowerregister said:

I can't read all that this early in the morning.

SUPRMAN said:

...and he could've walked out of his house and gotten killed for wearing the wrong colors....I've been over there on 3 seperate occasions, and unless I'm mistaken, I ain't dead yet.....

reneGade20 said:

lowerregister said:

Very good points made....but ask yourself, how many people did this man reach out to for help? I get the feeling that his manly pride probably kept him from truly letting on how bad his situation was until he divulged it in the very end in his faxed letter...I know that when I tell folks that I was on food stamps for a few months when my wife and I were temporarily unemployed in the early 90's, I get seriously raised eyebrows because I TOLD NO ONE...I was too ashamed of myself for letting things get so bad...I was down on myself because of my perceived waste of potential...sitting on my front stoop waiting for the mailman to bring me my stamps (back before the "credit card" system) wasn't how I imagined I'd be living during my idealistic daydreams....

I can definitely understand how the frustration mounted for him, though definitely not on his scale, but the route he took, unfortunately, will do nothing to increase altruism in our society on the whole in the long term...

Wasn't he getting ready to move his family to his brother's house in Kansas or somewhere?

GetAwayFromMe said:

In the US, if you don't pay your taxes, you go to jail.

Sowhat said:

Look up the law, I swear it's not even on the books. It's not mandatory at all. Your government, ladies and gentlemen.

GetAwayFromMe said:

I don't care if it is on the books or not a(you may even be right). People have tried not paying their taxes under that exact premise....it doesn't work. You go to jail.

Sowhat said:

Yup!! When Uncle Suga wants his money, he gets paid....PERIOD! The G will go back into your past to get their ends...and if you don't pay, they'll disappear you in far worse ways than the mob can come up with.....

That was a beautiful family, such sad news.