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PrintableuPtoWnNY said: SilverlakePhil said: Apparently,she contacted Oprah and Diane Sawyer of ABC to grant them an interview for a reported 2 million each. The whoring of the children begins..
Please tell me this is a joke...  Nope. She'll get away with it and be rewarded too because everyone is going to be so blinded by those babies. [Edited 2/2/09 9:54am] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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uPtoWnNY said: SilverlakePhil said: Apparently,she contacted Oprah and Diane Sawyer of ABC to grant them an interview for a reported 2 million each. The whoring of the children begins..
Please tell me this is a joke... Oops, I was slighty incorrect. She's seeking 2 million in total for media interviews. Diapers cost money. London Times article THE single mother of octuplets born in California last week is seeking $2m (£1.37m) from media interviews and commercial sponsorship to help pay the cost of raising the children. Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert after it emerged last week that she already had six children before giving birth on Monday. She now has 14 below the age of eight. Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week — media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Diane Sawyer, who presents Good Morning America. Her family has told agents she needs cash from deals such as nappy sponsorship — she will get through 250 a week in the next few months — and the agents will gauge public reaction to her story. Her earning power, though, could be diminished by a growing ethical and medical controversy. Experts believe that the unnamed fertility specialists who gave her in vitro fertilisation (IVF) should not have implanted so many embryos, and in choosing to carry all eight to term, Suleman ignored guidelines, risking both their health and her own. US public reaction has been mixed: many have asked how an unemployed single mother can raise 14 children, as her first six have already strained the family budget. Angela and Ed Suleman, Nadya’s parents,bought her a two-bedroom bungalow in the suburb of Whittier in March 2007, but soon after got into debt and had to leave their own home. They filed for bankruptcy and moved in with their daughter and grandchildren. Last week her father said he would return to his native Iraq to work as a translator and driver. Angela Suleman, who is caring for the first six children — one of whom is autistic — while her daughter is in hospital, said yesterday that she had consulted a psychologist over Nadya’s “obsession with children”. Nadya Suleman, who describes herself as a “professional student” living off education grants and parental money, broke up with her boyfriend before the birth of her first child seven years ago. The identity of the octuplets’ father remains unknown, but local reports suggest they were conceived with frozen sperm donated by a friend she met while working at a fertility clinic. He is the father of her twins, born two years ago. Michael Tucker of the Georgia Reproductive Clinic, Atlanta, said Suleman’s story stunned him. “We are policed by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, which frowns upon implanting more than two or three embryos at a time. It is remarkable that any practitioner would undertake such a practice.” The babies, born nine weeks prematurely by C-section, were attended to by 46 medical staff, who expected seven babies. When the eighth — a boy — appeared, doctors were “confounded”. Angela Suleman said her daughter was advised to terminate some of the embryos in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy for the sake of her health, but she refused because she did not know how to make such a life-or-death decision. “She doesn’t have any more, so it’s over now. It has to be,” said the grandmother. | |
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They should not pay her a penny 4 an interview. | |
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Graycap23 said: They should not pay her a penny 4 an interview.
She really should be forced to wear a scarlet letter and savaged at every moment of her day  2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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Fantastic - where is Harlepolis now, who was arguing with us?  | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Graycap23 said: They should not pay her a penny 4 an interview.
She really should be forced to wear a scarlet letter and savaged at every moment of her day Isn't that what the kids are for?  | |
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Graycap23 said: They should not pay her a penny 4 an interview.
Don't punish those kids for having a mentally ill mother. The money should go to them and they should be removed from her. Easier said than done but still... | |
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JustErin said: Graycap23 said: They should not pay her a penny 4 an interview.
Don't punish those kids for having a mentally ill mother. The money should go to them and they should be removed from her. Easier said than done but still... That's a very good notion actually, you should email Oprah and tell her to fund any money coming her way to the kids. I'm not even kidding, it IS a good idea.  | |
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JustErin said: Graycap23 said: They should not pay her a penny 4 an interview.
Don't punish those kids for having a mentally ill mother. The money should go to them and they should be removed from her. Easier said than done but still... Punish? The kids are born in a litter like puppies and they are entitled 2 millions? | |
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9 weeks early, I cannot believe they have all survived.
Any money she makes should go towards hospital bills, taking proper care of the litter and to her parents since she is living with them. | |
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I hope somebody gives something directly to the children themselves...like a guaranteed elementary through high school education that is paid for, that way they have a chance to think with sense mommy cannot take away what has been given to them and live large. Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. | |
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people like her make it difficult for people who genuinely need help. Single mothers already get a bad rep. I wouldn't give her one red cent. | |
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The identity of the octuplets’ father remains unknown, but local reports suggest they were conceived with frozen sperm donated by a friend she met while working at a fertility clinic. He is the father of her twins, born two years ago.
Does the father pay any child support? | |
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honeypot69 said: people like her make it difficult for people who genuinely need help. Single mothers already get a bad rep. I wouldn't give her one red cent.
Can you imagine what the Rush Limbaugh/Mann Coulter crowd are saying now? |
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uPtoWnNY said: honeypot69 said: people like her make it difficult for people who genuinely need help. Single mothers already get a bad rep. I wouldn't give her one red cent.
Can you imagine what the Rush Limbaugh/Mann Coulter crowd are saying now? I don't want to ugh! | |
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Graycap23 said: JustErin said: Don't punish those kids for having a mentally ill mother. The money should go to them and they should be removed from her. Easier said than done but still... Punish? The kids are born in a litter like puppies and they are entitled 2 millions? So because of that they are then supposed to be denied? | |
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Calif. octuplets' mom's veil of secrecy vanishes
WHITTIER, Calif. – The veil of secrecy octuplets' mother Nadya Suleman shrouded herself in for more than a week was lifted Thursday with the release of public documents showing that the 33-year-old struggled with depression for years until she finally began to realize her childhood dream of having a huge family. Suleman, who now has 14 children, told doctors she battled with depression for years after she was injured in a riot in 1999 at the state mental hospital where she worked. The doctors' reports were included in more than 300 pages of documents released to The Associated Press by the state Division of Workers' Compensation on the same day NBC released excerpts of Suleman's first interview since giving birth last month. Among other things, the documents reveal that Suleman collected more than $165,000 in disability payments between 2002 and 2008 for an injury she said left her in near-constant pain and helped end her marriage. Meanwhile, Suleman told NBC what her mother and others have said since the octuplets were born: that she always wanted a huge family to make up for the isolation she felt as an only child. "That was always a dream of mine, to have a large family, a huge family," she said. "I just longed for certain connections and attachments with another person that ... I really lacked, I believe, growing up." In the interview — scheduled to air on the "Today" show Monday and again Tuesday on "Dateline" — Suleman calls her childhood "pretty dysfunctional." In the state report, however, doctors indicate she had a happy childhood. She told them she was an above-average high school student, enjoyed being a cheerleader, had many friends and stayed out of trouble. She said her parents were loving and supportive. As an adult, however, she said she often battled depression as she struggled to get pregnant and particularly after her injury. In the report, Suleman told a doctor she had three miscarriages. Another doctor disputed that number, saying she had two ectopic pregnancies, a dangerous condition in which a fertilized egg implants somewhere other than in the uterus. She told NBC she struggled for seven years before finally giving birth to her first child in 2001 through in vitro fertilization. She told a doctor who conducted a psychological evaluation for a workers' compensation claim that the first birth was "the most wonderful, best thing that's ever happened in my life." Suleman said all her children have been born through in vitro fertilization, with sperm donated from a friend. The first six range in age from 2 to 7. The octuplets are doing fine, said officials at Kaiser Permanente's Bellflower Medical Center, where they were born Jan. 26. According to the state documents, which were released to the AP following a public records request, Suleman was injured Sept. 18, 1999, when a riot involving nearly two dozen patients broke out in the women's ward of the Metropolitan State Hospital in Norwalk. As she was helping other staffers restrain a patient, a desk thrown at her by another patient hit her in the back. It caused damage to her spine and left her complaining of headaches and intense pain throughout her lower body for years. She attributed it in part to the breakup of her marriage to Marcos Gutierrez, whom she had wed in 1996. She told a psychiatrist the bouts of depression she was suffering as a result of her injury were unfair to her husband. "I don't want to keep bringing him down. I want him to move on with his life," she told a psychiatrist. The couple split in 2000 and divorced last year. Gutierrez has not returned calls to phone numbers listed for him, and his divorce lawyer, Roberto Gil, declined comment. Suleman has come under criticism from TV and radio commentators, bloggers and others who accused her of irresponsibly having more children than she appears prepared to care for. Some say she had the octuplets to cash in with a TV or book deal. Although the two publicists she hired last week acknowledge she is reviewing such offers, one of her friends said Suleman simply loves children and didn't get pregnant for profit. "She's not even interested in that right now," said Jessica Zepeda, who lives down the street. "It's funny and sad in a way, there's a lot of people saying really negative things and they don't know her." Suleman's mother said she expects people's opinions to change now that her daughter is going public. "She's a very likable person," Angela Suleman said Wednesday. "She's basically normal except for this obsession she's always had with children." She's also a good mother, Angela Suleman said. Her daughter, who was born in Fullerton, studied to be a psychiatric technician after graduating from a high school in La Puente in 1993. She received a bachelor's degree in child and adolescent development from California State University, Fullerton, in 2006 and was studying there for a master's degree in counseling when she became pregnant with the octuplets. "She may not be able to finish her master's degree now and she was so close to wrapping it up," her mother said. Publicist Mike Furtney said Nadya Suleman has told him it's her dream to eventually earn a Ph.D. in some field involving counseling. Public records show Suleman was listed on the Metropolitan State Hospital payroll from 1997 until last year, though it appears she did little work after September 1999 because of her injury. Furtney said Thursday that Suleman was "feeling great" and looking forward to being reunited with her octuplets, who are expected to remain in the hospital for several more weeks. "She's happy to be out of the hospital, although she misses her children," he said. "She can't wait until they join her." The octuplets were born nine weeks prematurely and will be released from the hospital individually as they hit a near-normal newborn weight. "At this point in their development, they are not mature enough to coordinate the suckling and swallowing at the same time to be bottle-fed," said Dr. Mandhir Gupta, the hospital's neonatologist. | |
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SCNDLS said: Calif. octuplets' mom's veil of secrecy vanishes
WHITTIER, Calif. – The veil of secrecy octuplets' mother Nadya Suleman shrouded herself in for more than a week was lifted Thursday with the release of public documents showing that the 33-year-old struggled with depression for years until she finally began to realize her childhood dream of having a huge family. Suleman, who now has 14 children, told doctors she battled with depression for years after she was injured in a riot in 1999 at the state mental hospital where she worked. The doctors' reports were included in more than 300 pages of documents released to The Associated Press by the state Division of Workers' Compensation on the same day NBC released excerpts of Suleman's first interview since giving birth last month. Among other things, the documents reveal that Suleman collected more than $165,000 in disability payments between 2002 and 2008 for an injury she said left her in near-constant pain and helped end her marriage. Meanwhile, Suleman told NBC what her mother and others have said since the octuplets were born: that she always wanted a huge family to make up for the isolation she felt as an only child. "That was always a dream of mine, to have a large family, a huge family," she said. "I just longed for certain connections and attachments with another person that ... I really lacked, I believe, growing up." In the interview — scheduled to air on the "Today" show Monday and again Tuesday on "Dateline" — Suleman calls her childhood "pretty dysfunctional." In the state report, however, doctors indicate she had a happy childhood. She told them she was an above-average high school student, enjoyed being a cheerleader, had many friends and stayed out of trouble. She said her parents were loving and supportive. As an adult, however, she said she often battled depression as she struggled to get pregnant and particularly after her injury. In the report, Suleman told a doctor she had three miscarriages. Another doctor disputed that number, saying she had two ectopic pregnancies, a dangerous condition in which a fertilized egg implants somewhere other than in the uterus. She told NBC she struggled for seven years before finally giving birth to her first child in 2001 through in vitro fertilization. She told a doctor who conducted a psychological evaluation for a workers' compensation claim that the first birth was "the most wonderful, best thing that's ever happened in my life." Suleman said all her children have been born through in vitro fertilization, with sperm donated from a friend. The first six range in age from 2 to 7. The octuplets are doing fine, said officials at Kaiser Permanente's Bellflower Medical Center, where they were born Jan. 26. According to the state documents, which were released to the AP following a public records request, Suleman was injured Sept. 18, 1999, when a riot involving nearly two dozen patients broke out in the women's ward of the Metropolitan State Hospital in Norwalk. As she was helping other staffers restrain a patient, a desk thrown at her by another patient hit her in the back. It caused damage to her spine and left her complaining of headaches and intense pain throughout her lower body for years. She attributed it in part to the breakup of her marriage to Marcos Gutierrez, whom she had wed in 1996. She told a psychiatrist the bouts of depression she was suffering as a result of her injury were unfair to her husband. "I don't want to keep bringing him down. I want him to move on with his life," she told a psychiatrist. The couple split in 2000 and divorced last year. Gutierrez has not returned calls to phone numbers listed for him, and his divorce lawyer, Roberto Gil, declined comment. Suleman has come under criticism from TV and radio commentators, bloggers and others who accused her of irresponsibly having more children than she appears prepared to care for. Some say she had the octuplets to cash in with a TV or book deal. Although the two publicists she hired last week acknowledge she is reviewing such offers, one of her friends said Suleman simply loves children and didn't get pregnant for profit. "She's not even interested in that right now," said Jessica Zepeda, who lives down the street. "It's funny and sad in a way, there's a lot of people saying really negative things and they don't know her." Suleman's mother said she expects people's opinions to change now that her daughter is going public. "She's a very likable person," Angela Suleman said Wednesday. "She's basically normal except for this obsession she's always had with children." She's also a good mother, Angela Suleman said. Her daughter, who was born in Fullerton, studied to be a psychiatric technician after graduating from a high school in La Puente in 1993. She received a bachelor's degree in child and adolescent development from California State University, Fullerton, in 2006 and was studying there for a master's degree in counseling when she became pregnant with the octuplets. "She may not be able to finish her master's degree now and she was so close to wrapping it up," her mother said. Publicist Mike Furtney said Nadya Suleman has told him it's her dream to eventually earn a Ph.D. in some field involving counseling. Public records show Suleman was listed on the Metropolitan State Hospital payroll from 1997 until last year, though it appears she did little work after September 1999 because of her injury. Furtney said Thursday that Suleman was "feeling great" and looking forward to being reunited with her octuplets, who are expected to remain in the hospital for several more weeks. "She's happy to be out of the hospital, although she misses her children," he said. "She can't wait until they join her." The octuplets were born nine weeks prematurely and will be released from the hospital individually as they hit a near-normal newborn weight. "At this point in their development, they are not mature enough to coordinate the suckling and swallowing at the same time to be bottle-fed," said Dr. Mandhir Gupta, the hospital's neonatologist. N the the purr of the PR machine has begun.  The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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SilverlakePhil said: Apparently,she contacted Oprah and Diane Sawyer of ABC to grant them an interview for a reported 2 million each. The whoring of the children begins..
oh wow! | |
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She is disturbed, disgusting and a disgrace. MJ L.O.V.E: https://www.facebook.com/...689&type=2 / YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/us...nderSilent | |
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NaughtyKitty said: She is disturbed, disgusting and a disgrace.
i agree. she and the doctor should be in prison. WTF person would say 'oh yes, crazy person. i will inseminate you with 8 children. that is a splendid idea.' | |
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pimpdoutt said: NaughtyKitty said: She is disturbed, disgusting and a disgrace.
i agree. she and the doctor should be in prison. WTF person would say 'oh yes, crazy person. i will inseminate you with 8 children. that is a splendid idea.' I don't know about the mother, but that doctor should face charges. WTF was he thinking? Now the family's hired a publicist? How are they paying for that? |
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pimpdoutt said: NaughtyKitty said: She is disturbed, disgusting and a disgrace.
i agree. she and the doctor should be in prison. WTF person would say 'oh yes, crazy person. i will inseminate you with 8 children. that is a splendid idea.' I also forgot to add Delusional, to the list too. And I agree, the doctor who inseminated her needs to have his license revoked and should face charges too. THis whole story makes NO sense...how in the freakin hot hell did she get away with getting 8 embryos implanted in her---a single woman with no job, no home of her own, no means of income, she filed for bankruptcy a year or so ago and lives in her parents 3-bedroom house. OUTRAGEOUS!!!  Who in their right mind would decide to implant those embryos in her? Whoever it was obviously isnt in their right mind I saw a part of her interview on the Today show this morning, not by choice, I just happend to have it on as I was getting ready this morning...she said she only wanted ONE more child in addition to her 6 kids...so she had 6 embryos implanted and they all took and I guess one of them split into twins but...
I DONT BUY THAT! If she only wanted ONE more child, why get implanted with SIX embryos? Yeah, that makes alot of sense. This whole thing is shady and stinks to high heaven. Theres something more to this story--but right now all I have is more questions than answers [Edited 2/6/09 8:09am] MJ L.O.V.E: https://www.facebook.com/...689&type=2 / YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/us...nderSilent | |
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NaughtyKitty said: pimpdoutt said: i agree. she and the doctor should be in prison. WTF person would say 'oh yes, crazy person. i will inseminate you with 8 children. that is a splendid idea.' I also forgot to add Delusional, to the list too. And I agree, the doctor who inseminated her needs to have his license revoked and should face charges too. THis whole story makes NO sense...how in the freakin hot hell did she get away with getting 8 embryos implanted in her---a single woman with no job, no home of her own, no means of income...who in their right mind would decide to implant those embryos in her? Whoever it was obviously isnt in their right mind I saw a part of her interview on the Today show this morning, not by choice, I just happend to have it on as I was getting ready this morning...she said she only wanted ONE more child in addition to her 6 kids...so she had 6 embryos implanted and they all took and I guess one of them split into twins but...
I DONT BUY THAT! If she only wanted ONE more child, why get implanted with SIX embryos? Yeah, that makes alot of sense. This whole thing is shady and stinks to high heaven. Theres something more to this story--but right now all I have is more questions than answers I'd like to know if social services was aware of this mess. |
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uPtoWnNY said: NaughtyKitty said: I also forgot to add Delusional, to the list too. And I agree, the doctor who inseminated her needs to have his license revoked and should face charges too. THis whole story makes NO sense...how in the freakin hot hell did she get away with getting 8 embryos implanted in her---a single woman with no job, no home of her own, no means of income...who in their right mind would decide to implant those embryos in her? Whoever it was obviously isnt in their right mind I saw a part of her interview on the Today show this morning, not by choice, I just happend to have it on as I was getting ready this morning...she said she only wanted ONE more child in addition to her 6 kids...so she had 6 embryos implanted and they all took and I guess one of them split into twins but...
I DONT BUY THAT! If she only wanted ONE more child, why get implanted with SIX embryos? Yeah, that makes alot of sense. This whole thing is shady and stinks to high heaven. Theres something more to this story--but right now all I have is more questions than answers I'd like to know if social services was aware of this mess. They should be, this is one of the most talked about stories right now and unfortunately, this nut-job is a celebrity now. Check what I just found on TMZ.com: Octuplet Mom Adopts Jolie Lips Posted Feb 6th 2009 10:34AM by TMZ Staff Here's infamous multiple birth mom Nadya Suleman aka Octupussy on "Today" (left) -- and the one and only Angelina Jolie at an event in December (right). 
Only one of them has a total of 14 kids ... so far. We're just sayin'.  This wackadoodle just got out the hospital yesterday and what does she do? Immediately sits down for her TV interview! Sick. Just sick.[Edited 2/6/09 8:20am] MJ L.O.V.E: https://www.facebook.com/...689&type=2 / YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/us...nderSilent | |
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"She's a very likable person," Angela Suleman said Wednesday. "She's basically normal except for this obsession she's always had with children."
That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? | |
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Good for her. Children are a blessing  
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture! REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince "I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben |
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NaughtyKitty said: This wackadoodle just got out the hospital yesterday and what does she do? Immediately sits down for her TV interview! Sick. Just sick.....only in America. |
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If there is any justice, someone, Social Services, will come in and take those kids away from her and place them in loving homes where they will be properly cared for and looked after--and then have Nadya Looney Tunes sent away for some much needed psychiatric treatment. The more I read/hear about this travesty the more my blood boils 
I like what this blogger had to say on this whole mess: So the human clown car (and so aptly, and yes, I admit, rudely named Octopussy by Internet folks) is out of the hospital. And what has she done? Run home to embrace the six little ones she had to essentially abandon for months so she could gestate under hospital supervision?
Of course not, she headed straight to the nearest bright light and gave an interview to set us all straight. Because, of course, we are all confused and misguided about her and her wonderful motives. GAG. Well, first of all, here she is. Nadya Botox-Juvaderm-Restylane Sudeman. And yes, I feel very safe in calling her that. She has every sign of someone with a serious Angelina Jolie fixation. Apparently embryos are not the only things in which she overindulges. In her interview with Anne Curry, she defends her approach to parenting. "I'm providing myself to my children. I'm loving them unconditionally, accepting them unconditionally, everything I do. I'll stop my life for them and be present with them and hold them and be with them. And how many parents do that? I'm sure there are many that do, but many don't. And that's unfortunate. And that is selfish." I see. And just how do you intend to stop your life for them when you have no means of support for them? That worker's comp gravy train dried up, didn't it? I have news for you, Nadya. I have THREE, and it is difficult at best to juggle all their schedules, needs, and keep the nurturing at the level they deserve. THREE. And that is with a father who works very hard so I can stay at home with them. Please explain to me your support system? Your father is heading back to Iraq, and your own mother, who has outed you as a procreational wackjob, has told the press she will be gone when you come home. "I know I'll be able to afford them when I'm done with my schooling. If I were just sitting down, watching TV and not being as determined as I am to succeed and provide a better future for my children, I believe that would be considered to a certainly degree selfish." she said. Again, pardon me for being dense here, but just WHO is going to take care of your FOURTEEN children while you continue college? And honey, a master's in counseling (especially when I simply cannot see someone willingly taking advice from YOU) is not going to cover the costs of FOURTEEN kids. Now as to the public being unfair? She believes we are judging her because she is a single mother. "I feel as though I've been under the microscope because I've chosen this unconventional kind of life. I didn't intend on it being unconventional. It just turned out to be. All I wanted ... was to be a mom. That's all I ever wanted in my life." You are under the microscope because you are selfish and arrogant, and have shown ZERO concern for outcomes in your decision making. They practically had to install a revolving door on your fertility doctor's office for you. That no one told you NO is reprehensible. Even your mother sought psychiatric advice about you and your hellbent-on-being-terminally-pregnant ways. And why did you choose this path? "That was always a dream of mine, to have a large family, a huge family, and I just longed for certain connections and attachments with another person that I really lacked, I believe, growing up. Asked what was lacking, she cited a "feeling of self and identity ... I felt powerless. And that gave me a sense of predictability. Reflecting back on my childhood, I know it wasn't functional. It was pretty dysfunctional, and whose isn't?" Um, yeah. By all accounts you had a mother who indulged you and made sure you were always around other kids, and had a lot of friends. No one's life is perfect, Nadya, but cranking out a football team to quench some effed up sense of "predictability" (whatever the hell that even means) is not the answer. And finally, according to her, her fertility specialist did counsel against having so many embryos implanted, urging only one or two (she says six were placed - two split into sets of twins), but she would not hear it. "Of course not, I wanted them all transferred. Those are my children. And that's what was available and I used them. I took a risk. It's a gamble. It always is." A gamble? Jesus, lady, go to Vegas. We're talking about innocent lives here. Lives you set out to put at risk. That they all managed to survive and continue to grow stronger, is nothing short of a miracle. I swear, if any companies think they will be doing themselves a PR favor by sponsoring this woman, they need to think again. She is a wackaloon looking to profit off her irrational, reckless, selfish - YES, SELFISH, NADYA - decisions. No one out here wishes those babies anything but well, but we also do not wish to see this piece of work be paid to exploit them, or be given fame and fortune which in Nadya-land will only serve to validate her actions. http://dontgetmestarted-l...handy.html [Edited 2/6/09 11:09am] MJ L.O.V.E: https://www.facebook.com/...689&type=2 / YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/us...nderSilent | |
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