Sowhat said:

Are u saying that T.O. is not a highly skilled player? Did Philly lose the Superbowl because of T.O.?

Graycap23 said:

And a good part of that production on the field is a direct result of good work ethic, chemisty, etc...off the field.

Graycap23 said:

But winning is not as simple as that. Because ultimately things like chemistry can affect a players ability to produce.

Graycap23 said:

Philly did not lose the Superbowl because of him. Nor did they win with him.


That's the point...he is a highly skilled player but his actions take so much away from the teams he plays on, that it cancels out what he does on the field. That is why he has yet to win a ring.

And unless T.O. changes, I predict he will never get a ring.

Sowhat said:

I've played sports all of my life, I understand what u are saying. That said, it seems like u guys are buying into the media hype or u must think teams and players are dumb. T.O. has a rep and u think teams are still torn apart by him? That makes no sense.

Do u honestly think every team that has won has players whom all like each other?

Graycap23 said:

I know the opposite to be true. Every winning team has players that don't get along. But they put those differences aside for the team, and that's why they win.

In T.O.'s case, he is too selfish, gets too personal and takes it public. Which I believe does fracture a team enough to prevent them from winning.

Again, I stand by my prediction that unless T.O. changes his ways, he will never get a ring.

Graycap23 said:

I think the teams that have gambled on him do so in the hopes that something will change. That something about their team and their environment triggers a different response in him. Ultimately those teams are disappointed.

But no, it's not a requirement that players all like each other to be successful. It's just more conducive to winning than not.

Let me ask you this though... if the Cowboys are having real discussions about cutting T.O. and those discussions center around his effect on team chemistry, do you think they're dumb? Do you think they're buying into media hype? Or is it possible that this decision is rooted in real experience and circumstance, some of which we may not even be privy to?

Sowhat said:

So T.O. is now Allen Iverson.
Man....u guys are cold.

Graycap23 said:

I never said that, but now that you mention it


Actually, and I may be wrong, but I have never know Allen Iverson to throw another player under the bus like T.O. has.

SCNDLS said:

So that means it's ALL NOT TRUE since 2 of his current teammates haven't spoken out? So what happened with McNabb? Garcia?

Sowhat said:

Yeah, T.O. was humble as fuck his first couple of seasons in 9erville, then all that shit just went to his head and he started getting into it with the O-coordinator and Garcia, and then it got worse in Philly and now the same in Big D.

MuthaFunka said:

I know I am in this conversation but I had nothing to do with T.O. and McNabb and Garcia, don't blame it on me.....





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[Edited 1/16/09 12:20pm]

Graycap23 said:

And so far his production on the field hasn't gotten HIS TEAM jack.

Sowhat said:

If Allen has the ball.....they never get on the bus.

violator said:

Exactly. A team could have ALL the talent in the word (cough*'04Lakers*cough) and not have chemistry and lose to a team with good talent but GREAT chemistry (cough*'04Pistons*cough).

MuthaFunka said:

Exactly.


Even the local sportscasters noticed a big change in him and commented on it.

Graycap23 said:

No, actually, he's worse than Iverson. Iverson never really alienated his teammates, Ivy just had authority issues - T.O. just has ..well...ISSUES!

Sowhat said:

Exactly. Iverson throws coaches under the buses .

Sowhat said:

Graycap23 said:

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[Edited 1/16/09 12:26pm]

Graycap23 said:

Hell, if Ivy DIDN'T have the ball, they wouldn't even get TO the bus!

T.O.....Enemy of the State.

Graycap23 said:

T.O.....Enemy of Himself.