SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

well said good sir...


and no (ladies) thats not you're fault...but my main thing was, don't renounce it, just admit you're jaded

men'll straight up say "i have a hard time believeing i can find a good woman" but women are the always the ones to say "there are NO good men"

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

You took the words right out of my mouth (though admittedly, I was striving to be a bit more longwinded....)...folks need to realize that marriage is a microcosm of life...good, bad, indifferent, hard, easy, funny, sad...on and on....

whats up with my your/you're confusion these days?

I don't understand why women put up with so much of our shit.

reneGade20 said:

That's why I have no problem deconstructing the bullshit and putting it up in women's faces. why exactly do they deserve Prince's, jewels, wealth, castles and luxury? Just because. Where's my hookup then?! And to that, I'm totally resentful that I would have to pony up all this bullshit that I wouldn't even have for myself if I was straight You poor guys

,
[Edited 1/15/09 12:50pm]

SirPsycho said:

Most people are not going to agree with what I state here:

I am not interested in "working" to keep a marraige going. I do not want to argue. I do not want to fight. I do not want any drama. When people say marriage is hard, it's not a ringing endorsement to me. Keep that. My life is hard enough as it is.

When I think of spending my life with the one I love, I think of marrying my best friend. I think of working out the kinks in the beginning so there is no "I can't stand the way that motherfucker brushes his teeth" later. so much of the stuff I hear about is one partner using a secret the other tells them as ammo. No fucking way.

Vendetta1 said:

i can respect this..

and i place a premium on the foundation of relationships as well. but i honestly think its foolish (or at least i'd be foolish) to assume that marriage- even to a best friend type- wont be an uphill fight against complacency, boredom, self-centeredness, etc...

if you ask me, marriage is a mutaul commitment to self-secrifice. in the NAME of a greater humanity (not as in whole humanity, but personhood)



[btw, none of this is to suggest that you (or anyone else) havent done and arent doing damn well as a "single" mother, or that dizzying heights of personhood and self-sacrifice arent possible in one person just as much as two...]

Vendetta1 said:

i mean im saying....if you're not interested in building something, of course it wont materialize

Vendetta1 said:

There's nothing wrong with that. That's just real. But with you saying that, it's clear that marriage is not for you. Because it is work.

That's why I don't understand people who marry for any reason other than the fact that you are completely 100% crazy in love with someone. I mean, like, to the extent that you can't possibly imagine your life without them. And that's not to say that there aren't other things to consider, but being completely in love with that person has to be number one. It just has to. Even when people are head over heels in love with one another, marriage still requires work. It can still be very hard. So one can only imagine the difficulties people who marry for other reasons endure.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

ha. leave it to a gay guy to lament the straight man's plight

Vendetta1 said:

co- I can cosign on MOST of this except the sex part. I've never been one to dream of getting married or of being "rescued." I've been engaged twice and got caught up in the planning stuff but ultimately decided that there were issues indicating that these guys were not the ones for me and I did NOT choose to ignore the signs like a lot of women do JUST to be married. I've been on my own for a long time and am not afraid or ashamed of remaining single. Would I like to find the "one?" Sure, but not at the expense of losing myself OR dealing with a lot bullshit.

SCNDLS said:

yes, but i'm assuming you dont go around renouncing marriage

SCNDLS said:

Extremely intelligent position. The alternative is divorce and hurt.

SirPsycho said:

Nah, I'm not anti-marriage cuz like I always say, "everything ain't for everybody." What works for you may not work for me. Why should I piss on your parade and vice versa. Some people are able to find the one that makes dealing with the daily bullshit worth it. But I just look around at my homegirls and the married ones hit their mid-30s, panicked, got married, had 2-3 kids quickly and are now stressed out and unhappy. No, thanks, I'm good.

SirPsycho said:

i do the self-sacrificing thing and I'm not married.

It doesn't have to become a fight to ward off boredom. It doesn't have to be complacency which is why I rather marry a good friend. Some of my friends I've had for a very long time. I'm not bored. I son't understand why that changes for some people.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

and in some cases, ponying up the loot STILL ain't enough for some women...I've read a lot of the comments here that suggest men are out to get women to sacrifice who they are and this, that and the third....but in my experiences (personal and those of my buds), WE'RE always the ones who were expected to change who, what, and how we are....

....and one needs no more compelling proof of the above than to watch a few episodes of "Bridezillas"...

violator said:

But why is it work? maybe my definition of work is wrong?

Vendetta1 said:

im assuming you dont go to sleep and wake up with these people daily

reneGade20 said:

The expectation and the sacrifice on the man is so unreasonable most of the time. Like you are supposed to have one foot in the grave and one at your job 24/7 to make sure the dreams are fulfilled. Men are reduced to slavehood in order to make the dream come true. that is certainly the case with my stepmonster.

I mean why does a woman deserve alimony for being married 3 years? He only rented that vagina at that point and if he's still gonna have to pay for it she needs to open them legs when he wants it

And even though they might not show it, I think most women have the bridezilla inside, they know it's shameful to show it. But some are shameless. Imagine that is the rest of your life cuz you know the shit don't stop at "I do"
[Edited 1/15/09 13:30pm]

Vendetta1 said:

For most people change presents challenges. People grow, sometimes endure hardships, fighting complacency and a tendency to take one another for granted. Even couples who start out in the best of relationships deal with these things. The work part, as I see it, is staying involved and connected to that person even when those challenges threaten to tear them apart. Keeping energy and vitality in the relationship. Don't get me wrong, every marriage is unique and I imagine for some there is no 'hard work' at all. But I think more marriages struggle with it than not.

SirPsycho said:

Actually one of the best friends I had lived with me for five years and yes, we shared the same bed. Never.had.a.problem.

Vendetta1 said:

why only 5 years?

violator said:

Thanks for this.

People need to be open and honest about whether they can handle the hardships and challenges, giving each other a list of possible scenarios before the marriage. If you leave when someone is down, you are one fucked up person.

SCNDLS said:

My opinion exactly. Been married once and engaged twice. To me, traditional marriage is not for me. I take care of myself. I have my own. Weddings are ridiculous to me if there is more than $1000 spent. I mean, a wedding that costs $20,000, $50,000, a mil or more? Come on. That money could feed a lot of hungry children.

And I just have this idea that when two people are constantly around each other...sleeping, eating, showering, vacationing, etc., it's easy to get bored, tired, or disenchanted, even if you swore you were madly in love. I want my own bedroom. I want my own space. I want to have enough trust that I don't have to get phone calls when I'm gone asking where I am. I want to be able to go on a vacation alone sometimes. And he could do the same. I'm not the jealous type and I hate that directed towards me. It just means you're insecure and you shouldn't be married at all.

Believe me I've tried to find this and I haven't been able to yet. So, I'm cool with being single and marriage is not something I feel I "must" do before I die. I did it once, and that was enough to last a lifetime.

violator said:

I agree with what you say.

And this goes for other relationships too, like an unmarried couple living together, with or without children, family bonds or friendships. Less but also important, work relationships, customer relations, acquintances, ORG relations etc.

The difference is marriage is an ancient institution between two people who ideally have chosen to commit for life to eachother, which choice not only involves an emotional, social and religious or spiritual bond, but even more so a legal bond and a parental bond in the case of children, with all its consequences when the marriage is over.

--
[Edited 1/15/09 14:01pm]

SirPsycho said:

I've never wanted to be married, not as a little girl, a teen, a 20 something or now.

violator said:

One word.

"cock"

SirPsycho said:

He got his own spot. But that man put up with my snoring, my kids, my everything.

JustErin said:

Sadly true. I did it until I went out an bought a few. Now I don't put up with anything.

JustErin said:

Pul-lease.