JustErin said:

you seem to say that a lot tho_ or at least insinuate.

DesireeNevermind said:

Oh hell no. I've never once claimed to be innocent...quite the opposite. I'm forever pointing out and admitting my faults.

JustErin said:

I wanna know which comments freaked you out

JustErin said:

no...not innocent...but calling orgers mean if they criticize someone or something or just voicing their own preferences. to each his own H.O. ryte?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Nothing really. I just find it ironic that people are getting plastic surgery usually out of a fear of being made fun of by others and this thread seems about people saying in one breath that people should just accept who they are/what they look like and in the other they're ridiculing their looks.

It's just weird to me.

DesireeNevermind said:

Most are being downright mean in here not stating preferences.

But ok, fair enough...but you can't then criticize me for voicing mine...now can you?

I personally am fine with being criticized for what I say. It's all good to me.

JustErin said:

Celebs don't get plastic surgery out of fear of being made fun of by others I dont think. By the time many celebs get their first surgery they are already established in the biz-hence their celeb status.
Celebs get the surgery for the same reasons non celebs do...vanity pure and simple. They want to remain 4eva young and and also competitive in their field. Sometimes they get one surgery only to correct the botched job resulting from a previous surgery...think how many nose jobs MJ had...and Pam Anderson is up to what? 3 boob jobs? Mickey Rourke....need I say anymore? At least Lisa Rinna can say she overdid it. I think for many celebs...there's no such thing as overdoing it.

DesireeNevermind said:

But the root of vanity is wanting to be accepted by others. They don't want to age because they don't want to be ridiculed for aging. I mean, come on....there is a multi million dollar business based on ridiculing and humiliating celebrities.

JustErin said:

True but I think celebs feed into that buisness. Where does the ridiculing begin? Aren't we all guilty of it? Where do our present standards of beauty come from? Why are Jen Aniston and Angelina Joile always being photgraphed in bikinis or tight fitting outfits. They love that shit! I think the root of Vanity is self acceptance. A vain person doesn't really care what others thing because they think that THEY themselves are the shit! Like Meryl said in devil wears prada...."everybody wants to be us" spoken like a truly vain person. And Anna Wintor had a master of a face lift. Because she wanted to be at the top of her vain game.

chillichocaholic said:

my gosh ..

KidaDynamite said:

.. ohh my stomach .. lol

KidaDynamite said:

I think I just peed m'self!

DesireeNevermind said:

Wait, women who happen to be celebs can't wear bikinis because apparently they're asking for their bodies to be ridiculed?

If you wanna make fun of them, go ahead. Don't fool yourself into justifying it with piss poor "excuses" like "They want this! I know they do."

Some do, a lot don't.

spelling edit
[Edited 1/12/09 20:48pm]

yeah, that is not...hold up

ToraToraDreams said:

Michael Jackson looked better after the first 2 nose jobs during the thriller era. Ashlee Simpson looks better after her nose job. Pamela Anderson looked better after her first set of implants. And I just saw some really recent picture of Madonna and shes looking better now that the swellings gone down from her facelift and cheek implants. So I've seen quite a few who do. It's just the people who go overboard or go to bad doctors that look terrible. Or when they get things that don't suit their face.

purplesweat said:

Um... U are misunderstanding me. Women who happen to be celebs can wear whatever the hell they want. I'm saying they wear what they wear and where they wear it b/c they know most likely they will be photographed or spotted and it will get them attention and they are proud of how they look be it surgically enhanced or not. Anniston says in interviews her fav outfit is sweats but you NEVER see a pic of her in sweats- only some designer form fitting duds. I don't think celebs care about ridicule because they have self adoration. So I dunno where ur coming from with the term "piss poor excuse"...we're talking about the link between vanity and cosmetic surgery as it applies to celebrities.

I think Erin's point was that celebs get surgery to be accepted by everday non celeb people and I say it has nothing to do with common folk, it has to do with their own desires to stay young, achieve long term beauty and stay in the game of being famous and competing with other famous folk. And lets not limit this topic to women - men get cosmo surg too ya know but you hardly see pics of bad surgery on men. There are plenty....Stallone looks like crap, Rourke looks like crap, MJ looks like crap all b/c they took the surgery too far IMHO. ok you see enuf of MJ but that's more to do with his court drama, the surg is anecdotal.

DesireeNevermind said:

But staying on top is totally in the hands of the 'common folk' so it really has everything to do with being accepted and admired.

JustErin said:

See I wonder about that. I wonder if it used to be that way but now they (celebs) don't control how we see them but rather how we see ourselves. Many common folk are getting the surgery to look like their fav celebs. So is it really us and not the celebs who want to be accepted and admired? We could talk about this for ages...truly a rabbit hole it is.

DesireeNevermind said:

You're presuming they wear certain clothes ONLY because they want attention. Not because 9 times out of 10 women wear bikinis to the beach anyway...

Just because you don't see Jen in sweats in public, doesn't mean she never wears them or is trying to get attention by not wearing them. She gets stalked wherever she goes, no matter what she's wearing.

If celebs didn't care about ridicule they wouldn't get surgery.

Ashlee Simpson's nose was endlessly ridiculed...next minute, nose job.

Hilary Duff, Lindsay Lohan and Nicole Richie's weight were all criticised (no matter that two were still growing teenagers)...next minute they were all stick figures.

Mariah Carey was told only one side of her face was photogenic, now that's the only side she'll ever show in any video or photo shoot. We all know how much surgery Mariah has had.

Even Madonna, girl power extraordinaire had a drastic face lift in order to appear younger. And what's the one thing you ALWAYS hear about Madonna? "She's so fucking old now!" Could it be any more obvious?

Surgery is about wanting to change something permanently, change comes from insecurity not from self adoration otherwise they'd love what they already have and keep it that way.

How you can't see the connection between insecurity due to constant public inspection and surgery amongst celebs is beyond me.

You're telling me if you saw your face on a magazine, close up, after a big night out, no make up, and the headline said "WHAT HAPPENED? DESIREE LETS HERSELF GO!", you wouldn't feel the least bit insecure about the whole world seeing you that way?

purplesweat said:

I would blame photoshop for this a great deal. Every official photo has been airbrushed and smoothed over completely, no wonder every paparazzi shot could have the "wow X has let herself go", because that is the only time we see how they really look - JUST LIKE US!

purplesweat said:

Ok so you obviously read way more gossip rags than i do cuz i am not aware of all this rampant criticism of these celebs by some mysterious group of people. There was shock in dissappointment regarding Ashley's nose job. Lindsay and Nicole were ridiculed for losing weight and further...they lost it due to drug abuse issues not cuz they were called fat. I never heard about Mariah being told one side of her face was more photgenic than the other and if Madge had a facelift, she could have fooled me cuz she appears to be aging gracefully - wrinkles and all. I disagree that surgery cannot come from self adoration else why are all these celebs who have it still maintaining their look? None of the celebs you mentioned look any different that they did before their surgery. They just look enhanced. How you can't see the connection between vanity and the movie/film/fashion/music industry amongst celebs and their rush to get surgery to compete with their younger or in some cases more popular counter parts is beyond me.

If I get caught in a photo after a big night out with no make up (why i would party with no makeup is a little strange but oh well) and saw a negative headline...I wouldn't give a shit! I might just exploit it and go out the next night, same club same outfit just to stir shit up and keep the headlines going. But I am not a celeb nor an insecure person so how the world views me is not nearly as important as how I view myself.

DesireeNevermind said:

I used to read a few gossip blogs, but never tabloids. Although obviously I'd see the covers sometimes. I clearly remember the tabloid covers for Lindsay's, Nicole's and Hilary's weight. Hilary's had a heading that went "Hilary Duff Puffs Up". She was about 17 or 18 when that cover came out.

And criticism is a two way street with the public, they criticize for being ugly, then criticize for getting the surgery or losing the weight. The public feels as though these people are public property and therefore makes its own rules as they go along.



It doesn't even matter if you haven't heard it, I've read it numerous times in the music and more section from big fans and you only have to look at any of her videos.




Uh...





Yeah...look at all those...um..wrinkles...



Yeah, especially Madonna, she looks...exactly the...um...same?

They're maintaining the look that made them sell/popular, not the natural look that they are. That involves wrinkles, dimples, freckles, smaller or bigger noses, thin lips, ears that stick out. Seriously, you're being pretty naive about this.



And wouldn't surgery due to competition ALSO come from insecurity? "I can't do this on my own, I need to appear a certain way to do it". Come on!



I said after a big night, make up tends to fade or get smudged during that time. *thinking of amy wino*



Spend a few years under the public microscope and we'll talk then

I can't believe celebrities care that much about what the public think of them. The insecurity is such a turnoff.

Vendetta1 said:

The public gives 'em their pay cheque and their success.

purplesweat said:

I am actually glad not to be famous then.

I caught "extreme skinny celebrity mums" on TV last night
that made me really sad
BUT
the pressure to take off the baby weight seems very much linked to $$$ to the point where having a baby NOW is a profitable exercise, whereas back in the olden days, it was the kiss of death to a movie career

ZombieKitten said:

Yes, I could go on about the obsession with baby weight atm in the media.

People don't seem to understand the different between "fat" because of an unhealthy lifestyle and "fat" because a mini human is growing inside a woman!

The baby is usually celebrated by the mags but it's always the loss of baby weight that gets the first headline. Always.

purplesweat said:

the amount of money those magazines must pay out is astronomical! And in turn, the amount of money they get in advertising must be even more astronomical, no wonder the beauty myth MUST BE KEPT ALIVE at all costs

ZombieKitten said:

This thread needs some pete burns:












MF almost had to have his lips amputated