I had gotten into a deep discussion with my best friend just before the holidays about when people (mostly teens) lose their virginity. Now with all of the religious crap out there about holding back sex until marriage, it's probably 95% likely that those people who are virgins on their wedding night aren't exactly virginal. In fact, most of them claim that technically they are virgins because they have not had any sexual intercourse with another person. But they have done just about everything else up to that point, including dry humping, hand jobs , oral sex , and playing with toys.

I bring this up because I wanted to know from a woman's perspective when she determines when she loses her virginity. For men, it's pretty simple; he inserts his swollen erect penis into a vaginal or anal orifice. But what about the ladies? So-called Christian teens in love can get involved in rather heavy passionate kissing, and the guy can dry hump his girlfriend into orgasm if he rubs her clitoris the right way, even while clothed. Does solo masturbation with a dildo or vibrator constitute losing virginity? What if it done by a boyfriend or curious bisexual-leaning girlfriends over for a girls night in? There are some {I believe) misinformed teens who are taking virginity pledges at these megachurches yet they have anal sex. How do you define this, and how would you explain this to your own children if you have any?

728huey said:

that's a good question (about the vibrator) ... I pretty much have your definition.. once a man inserts the hymen, her virginity is over..

Flowers2 said:

If the vibrator or dildo is large enough to cause bleeding thereby breaking the hymen then yes. Tampons don't make you lose your virginity... so that's the technical explanation. But the mental/emotional knowledge of knowing how to climax is a whole other can of worms.

This is a really good question. I had a college girlfriend who wanted to wait until marriage. And one night when I had her handcuffed to the ceiling fan, yet we weren't actually "doing it" (everything BUT "it") - it occurred to me that her concept of "virginity" had become absurd.

As a guy, it definitely means one thing. But as a girl, it must get vague.

paintedlady said:

yeah, once the hymen is broken, she's done there, but wouldn't she still kinda be a virgin, if a man never touched her?

Some people even consider anal to be a non-virginity-ending event.

Anyway, it's not black-and-white, there's no right answer, and really. . .who cares?

Flowers2 said:

The tearing and opening up would make her too "knowledgeable" to still be a virgin. If she only got her pussy sucked she would still be one. Or if she wore tampons she would still be one... but if she climaxes due to a vibrator that is big enough to stretch her vagina out and she experiences a vaginal orgasm the she is NO virgin.

forgot to add IMO. the rule always bends for women.
[Edited 1/2/09 17:33pm]

paintedlady said:

Uh, what if she climaxes without inserting anything?

And who died and made you the arbiter of virginity?

tackam said:

See above posts and edit. We both have our opinions don't we?

tackam said:

There definitely is no clear answer, it is something everyone should really define for themselves.

I define a female who has lost her virginity as one where her male partner has inserted his erect penis into her vagina and breaks her hymen.

To me, a woman who has not yet experienced sexual intercourse, but has performed oral sex and handjobs, is still, technically considered a virgin. I hope these teenagers out here are aware that you can still catch STD's just as quickly by performing oral sex on each other. There's a lot of mis-education of the virgins out here.

Oh and the virginity pledges at these so-called ultra religious churches....a sham. It's straight bullshit. All it is, is a ceremony to make the parents at ease in trusting their child enough to not have sex until marriage. Eh hem, none can be farther than the truth. One of my cousins took this pledge when she was like 14, her parents were bragging about it to the family and all, even put her "pledge" certificate up on their wall in their living room..but when she turned 17 guess what, she got pregnant and they paid for the abortion. And they made sure to cover up this little "secret"...though unbeknowingst to them, the only people who don't know about this "secret" are my grandparents. Comes to show you how hyprocritical people...and especially family...can be.

"... the loss of one's essence..."

I would say it is something that each would need to define on their own

It's a grey area between the balck and white really

To me there is no clear definition

Getting laid.

Flowers2 said:

a hymen can tear for all kind of non-sexual reasons.

JasmineFire said:

And if the hymen regrows and the woman is non-active sexually.... is she considered a virgin again?

I think virginity really is nothing but an abstract concept created in an attempt to define and control our sexual states by attaching morality to it. I don't think it's healthy or even particularly sane to assign moral value to a bodily function. There is no physical marker for men, and many women also do not have a physical marker of virginity or non-virginity.

Flowers2 said:

But many women aren't even born with hymens, and many, many more than that break theirs before they ever have sex. The "intact hymen" concept of virginity is pure nonsense, since it can only be applied to women; can only refer to heterosexual intercourse; and many women either break their hymens before sex or don't have one to begin with.

paintedlady said:

It doesn't re-grow.

meow85 said:

I was told that the fleshy fold/layer that is considered a hymen can heal and regrow. I was told so by my doctor because mines did.

to me virginity is somewhat a state of mind.It is a concept thought to us based on our cultural norms, religious norms, etc. but is virginity real? In my opinion, its totally irrelevant. certain people use this concept known as virginity to make people who are more comfortable with their sexuality feel bad about themselves. others make fun of those who are still virgins. then there is a thing called virgin worship, which i find disturbing. the concept of virginity should not be used.

paintedlady said:

I stand corrected, if that's the case.

But regardless, it wouldn't make a person a virgin again. It doesn't change the fact that you had sex. And it doesn't change the fact that one's hymen is not a good way to measure sexual status anyway.

baroque said:

My thoughts exactly.

meow85 said:

aahh thank you.. realistic think alike no?

meow85 said:

it was pretty much a non-issue for me, no big build-up to losing it or "getting rid" of the virginal state
I knew how to climax before any guy ever touched me, and my first boyfriend took me there fully clothed, and I couldn't have cared less about "virginity" at that point What was nice though, was that when we had real proper naked sex, we were each other's first

ZombieKitten said:

My first time having sex with a guy (losing my virginity, if you will) was no big deal, really. It was with a friend. He'd done it before, and I hadn't, and I wanted to see what the big deal about the act was. But I never considered that night as any big marker or signpost in my life, nor did I think of myself differently after the fact.

I have since had sexual encounters that stick out in my memory and are infinitely more special than my first one was. There's nothing particualarly magical about the first time IMO. Virginity is, as far as I can tell, just an arbitrary social marker.

meow85 said:

I'd agree with you that first time usually wouldn't be particularly special, except mine WAS stand-out, it was in the shower, and I was sooooo ready for it

Intercourse....period. Nothing mysterious....very simple, really

ZombieKitten said:

Good for you.

I was speaking more in the general sense though. Our society makes this huge deal about virginity and losing it, but it's just a thing that happens, really. For some people it will be remarkable, for some it will not.