TypoQueen said:

Yeah i saw that, like i said it is still an issue but not so much so as the US due to the rabies laws and how stuck up people can be about dna testing etc etc for pedigrees, not saying it isnt still and issue just not on such a large scale

Here we get them from eastern european countries but it's the same shit, we call them "car boot puppies". It's so sad and disgusting.

As Teacher said, sad and disgusting!

There is a pet shop where I live that is known to get their puppies from these sources. It's a chain, and they're constantly shut down, but yet re-open again. Two co-workers have gotten puppies from there, and both had severe ailments which led to death.(One passed, the other had to be euthanized.) They both still went to a pet store to get their next dog. They wanted the "designer dog" and one is having problems with her legs.

Shelters are the way to go. That, or a reputable breeder.

Simplicity said:

Honestly, these people are dumbasses - doesn't take a scientist to look at a puppy and see if it has physical problems, if they're that severe that they have obvious problems. If you don't know enough about dogs to see that, get a turtle instead. But designer dogs are utter bullshit of course, and as you say - shelter or REAL breeder, no other way. If everybody did that this wouldn't be a problem.

Teacher said:

Well, in their defense, the puppies didn't show any physical signs of any health issues. Dumbasses, yes, for going yet again to purchase another puppy from a similar source.

I totally agree with you on the designer dog issue. Actually, I have a designer dog myself! He's what I used to call a Heinz 57 or a mutt. He's actually a "Sheprott" and he was rescued. He's maybe not as cute as a Morkie, which aren't always bred to make the cash, but most often times are, and being bred knowingly that that mix is known to have a heap-load of health problems. (I don't want to pick on the Morkie... there are plenty of others.)

I just wish people would educate themselves.

Simplicity said:

I don't know what either of those names mean but I really don't care, to be honest. They're ALL bred to make money, recent studies have scientifically shown that none of the breeds they say were designed to be allergy friendly actually are. There are pure breeds for ALL needs and purposes, no need for more mixed dogs.
I can't even fathom getting a puppy that isn't checked out be a certified clean vet, much less getting one from a pet store. Thankfully it's illegal to sell cats and dogs in stores here, it'll never become legalised either - I can put money on that.

Sad to say but almost any buisness that involves animals is cruel. Even the companies that hire out cute little monkeys and other animals for tv comercials have been busted for cruelty. Just bad living conditions, treated like objects rather than living beings. Even things that seem as innocent as horse drawn carriages. I forget the name but a really popular ham factory in America was recently busted for some of the most horrific treatment of their pigs. And it was all captured on film, I think you can see it at the PETA website. They sprayed spray paint up a pregnant pigs nose and mouth, stuck a broom up her bottom, smashed a piglet into the cement and jumped on his nose crushing it into the ground, lots of horrible things, all just for fun I've seen footage of chickens and turkeys treated just as bad. This world is full with cruel bastards.

My sister just had to put down her husky who couldn't walk any more. She'd been on athritis medication half her life, had 2 knee/hip operations. I betcha she was a puppy mill dog

Arnotts said:

PETA schmeta. They provoke things, put people undercover that provoke actions like these. Now, I'm not at all saying this doesn't happen, understand that, but PETA are virtually terrorists and idiots. Can you imagine what woud happen if we'd actually set ALL animals free like these people want? At the same time they're saying this is their ultimate goal, they bully people into giving the animals over to them, then euthanise them in most cases - I think it was over 75% in one state one year. They honestly believe in euthanising animals almost rather than rehoming them, just in case the next owner is cruel to them too. So, PETA - no thanks, just as cruelty, no thanks.

ZombieKitten said:

I doubt it. They're not very popular dogs actually, this was probably just a result of breeding on dogs that weren't healthy to begin with. Huskies have had increasing probs with hip/elbow dysplasia/arthritis, ever since they stopped being used almost exclusively for pulling work. A working dog cannot be unhealthy, you'll notice quickly and the people who work with their dogs will not breed the sick ones. The breeders/people with non-working dogs, however, perhaps don't (Obviously not in the case of your sister's dog) Im sorry to hear it either way. My Ollie was on arthritis meds for 5 years too, his joints were just... too mobile I guess, don't know the English word for it. Not a fault that could be foreseen in any way, but hip/elbow probs are always hereditary - not necessarily first or second generation even, but it's always there.
There, that was the dog health lesson for today. Now I'm off to bed

Teacher said:

Well, my "Sheprott" was designed by his parents. Like I said, he's a mutt. I won't tell you what a Morkie is, because you don't care, other than say they're bred for the cute factor to make money.

Unfortunately, many pet stores offer free vet checks within so many months, but they're their vets.


.
[Edited 1/3/09 18:07pm]

ZombieKitten said:

Hip Dysplasia?

That is so sad. It is so hard losing a pet.

Simplicity said:

is it a maltese yorkie?

Teacher said:

night!

ZombieKitten said:

Yeppers!

Teacher said:

I know I'd rather be dead then live in the conditions these animals do. Peta are still better for exposing these things than ignoring them like most people do.

Arnotts said:

Agreed, but you have to look to PETA's overall agenda - to release, I mean release freely without any care or supervision whatsoever, ALL animals. They need it, y'see... ALL animals deserve to live in good conditions, but releasing them all would be disastrous for them - just as bad as being in cruel conditions would because they'd die in a very short time. In some cases it's the humans' fault for domesticating them and making them so many, but we did and releasing them is NOT the answer. Also, them equating "euthananising" with "releasing" makes my stomach turn.

Teacher said:

We get them come from Ireland by the tuck loads

TypoQueen said:

Everybody get them from somewhere else, as long as people keep getting dogs without properly checking papers and health there'll be a demand. It's supply and demand and greed, money makes the world go round.... and kills the dogs.

Teacher said:

Some do produce paper work and still sell sick animals, some are forged and it can be difficult to find out about the paper work due to the data protection act here, the only way you can find out the truth in cases if you have a lawyer and have a court request that info.

TypoQueen said:

Where are you?

mdiver said:

UK

TypoQueen said:

Me too

data protection does not stretch to animals, if you want to know anything about a KC reg dog you can get anything you want including 8 gens back

mdiver said:

It does when it comes to the breeder, they will give you certain info up to a point. Been down that road with the KC. Was a battle one that I won but it took Myself, Lawyers, Vets and Animal Authoritys to bring that scum bag KC dog judge breeder down.

TypoQueen said:

The moment they get difficult, walk away. Best way to put them out of business.

mdiver said:

Already had the pup. The KC highly recommended the breeder as the breeder was an accredited breeder, one of the top dog judges and head of the breed clubs. I put the breeder out of business.

TypoQueen said:

Then i guess you and the breeder learned a lesson

mdiver said:

The KC and breeder learned lessons. I learned that laws need changing and that no mater how much research one does you can not always trust the info given. I now help others bring down bad breeders along with pushing for change of the laws on animal breeding and animal welfare, it can be rewarding but also heartbreaking.

Apparently TypoQueen took the following comment personally, even though it has nothing to do with her. She got a dog from a reputable breeder and with great lines, and that has nothing to do with what I call "unknown dog" in the comment. There will always be dodgy breeders and it's very hard to know about them unless you've been around for a long time. That's not at all the purpose of the following comment.
By "unknown" I mean a dog that comes out of nothing, without pedigree and sold out of nowhere. That's it. All clear?
Comment here:
Here you have to register the dog with the government, if that's not done don't buy the dog. Forging papers is only easy if you sell dogs to people who don't know what they're doing. I'm sorry, but if you don't know the risks involved in getting an unknown dog? Get a fish bowl instead. Everybody learns, but there are easy ways of checking that the papers are genuine. Most people just don't. But Phil is right - if they get difficult or if anything at all is dodgy, walk away.
[Edited 1/4/09 14:39pm]

Teacher said:

In my case and others the person was well known and respected in the dog world and only a few knew what he was up to and those where the ones high up that help cover everything up. So being around the breeding world would not have changed anything. When you have those supposed to be looking out for animal welfare doing such things what hope do we have for the animals.

Your lucky in what your country does, it is a lot different here. It is very easy to forge papers here. As I explained two Dam’s maited at the same time but one has been over breed and the pups can not be registered so the breeder KC registers both litters in one Dam’s name. The KC have been questioning the large litters registered now and have started asking questions but you need proof and you only get this by DNA testing, this is not compulsory in the UK so a lot of breeders get away doing this.

If people are thinking about purchasing a pup do not rush into it.
Research the breed, Check breed clubs out and join them. Get to know the breeders ask questions. Research the clubs and breeders on the internet. Most respected breeders will have a very long waiting list possibly a two year waiting list for a pup and will have all relevant health checks done on the Sire and Dam before mating so check these out a good breeder loves showing off as they are very proud of their animals. A good breeder will want to get to know you and visa versa. They will become your friend/mentor and will always be on call. But do realise some can not be trusted so be on guard at all times and if you do not feel comfortable, that something does not sit right just walk away.

If you wish to adopt there are many breed rescues and mixed breed rescues around desperate to find good homes for the animals. They will help you find the right animal for you, and educate you on the breed, offering advice and the rescues will be on the other end of the phone if you ever need any help.