on 20/20 tonight at 10.

http://abcnews.go.com/Hea...878&page=1

I can't believe we missed the first birth! I sure as hell don't remember any threads on it

Congrats to the happy couple.

As I understand it, he's the one carrying the babies because his wife isn't capable for some reason. Is that correct?

that's weird.

lol Its not a pregnant man... its a woman with facial hair .... I know I can be a schmuck

LoyalAndTrue said:

Not too weird it couldn't happen

IAintTheOne said:

No, it's a man. Biologically female, but definitely a man.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

ok, i read the story, and as meow says, biologically female.

that explains it.

LoyalAndTrue said:

gender is a social construct.

meow85 said:

I believe so.

EmeraldSkies said:

Makes sense.

Though wouldn't adoption or fostering just be simpler? Or do they live in an area that prohibits same sex adoption/fostering? I ask because in a lot of places trans people can have a lot of difficulty in legally having their gender changed, and in some places it can only be changed if the full procedure has happened. Which clearly isn't the case for this man. So, though this couple is for all that really matters, a man and a woman, legally they might still be considered a woman and a woman.

meow85 said:

sure, but they have made a shitload of money selling this story to the media

ZombieKitten said:

Yup.

And who knows? Maybe they needed the money. Kids aren't cheap.

meow85 said:

those kids will be able to go to private school even!

ehuffnsd said:

exactly.

meow85 said:

i know they had a hell of a time finding a doctor who would take them seriously. No doctor wanted to treat him because they just disagreed with the whole thing.

I don't know if adopting would have been any easier for them.

JasmineFire said:

that's true, I've got friends who tick every box, waiting for a baby they can adopt, going on 8 years now, I can't imagine how difficult it must be if you stray even the slightest bit from "the norm"

ehuffnsd said:

Society's expectations definitely play a large role in gender development.

That being said, there are some innate differences between males and females that are attributed more to hormones than society. Society did not create estrogen and testosterone. That's just nature.

ZombieKitten said:

I think it must be difficult to work of an adoption agency. It's hard to determine who is going to be a good parent and who is not.

JasmineFire said:

You may be right. I guess a lot of it would have to do with the laws where they live.

JasmineFire said:

i've heard things that i won't share but i believe some of what was done was done as a statment more than anything.

meow85 said:

The main reason that he decided to not have his gender change completed,was because his wife was unable to have children,and they wanted kids. I am not really sure what the laws are in there area about same sex adoption,but some couples just want to have there own kids rather than adopting,so that might be why they decided to go this route. My thought was if they were a lesbian couple before he felt he needed to have the gender change,how did that not affect there relationship? She went into the relationship with a woman,and then the woman wanted to become a man. Will she still want to be in the relationship if after all the kids are had,he goes,and gets the change completed? It would be like a woman marrying a man,who later decided to become a woman,she wanted to be with a man,not a woman,so I would think that that would affect the relationship.

EmeraldSkies said:

i personally know of two couples that started out as lesbian couples and one of the partners changed gender. they are both long term relationships, both couples tied the knot this summer, and both are as happy as ever.

JasmineFire said:

differences in sex yes.

however the ideals of what a gender should or shouldn't do are totally social.

EmeraldSkies said:

See, I thought that they met while he was transitioning so he was already man-like. and she was a straight woman...or something...i don't know, i'm going to look on wikipedia.

brb.

ehuffnsd said:

that person is still the person they fell in love with though, I've heard of hetero women staying with the men they married after he underwent gender re-assignment. On the other hand, I've also heard the opposite, since the hormones changed their partner's personality, and with it went the attraction.

JasmineFire said:

both of them were lesbian activist when they met.

ZombieKitten said:

it depends on the person.

i women who identified as lesbians but once they changed genders identified as gay men because they were now attracted to men.

ehuffnsd said:

yes, this is true.

however, there are gender specific behaviors and actions that are more hormonally influenced than society influenced. Whenever I read articles about people who undergo gender reassignment, one thing that they all seem to say is that when they are transitioning and they begin to take hormones, their thinking changes.

Hormones influence our thoughts and actions more than we realize and I think that they play a role in creating gender. I do think that society's role in gender is much larger and more stifling.

JasmineFire said:

i think hormones and genetics lay the framework that society builds upon.

for instance it was genetics/hormones that made me a homosexual but it was society and culture that shaped me as a gay man.
[Edited 11/14/08 19:16pm]