Ideally I would love the Scottish SPL to be more competitive, in reality that just isn’t going to happen. I’d love to see my team Glasgow Celtic play in the English Premiership. I believe players and mangers would love to see Celtic & Rangers play south of the border, however the moneymen wouldn’t allow it that I think is unfortunate. The recent UEFA cup-tie between Celtic & Blackburn Rovers attracted a huge TV audience. As a supporter of Glasgow Celtic this also brought great excitement. The thought of playing Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U and others in a domestic set-up would be amazing. My question is to all those who support English clubs is_ are you for or against having Celtic and Rangers in the English Premiership?

Glasgow Celtic the Champions of England. Oh Baby, that’s an orgasmic thought.

I think it would be great ... show some of the English teams how to play football The match against Blackburn Rovers was great this week...

Being a foreigner in the country (I'm Irish) I find it a bit weird the way Celtic fans (Celtic being a Catholic founded club) has kinda latched onto Ireland and Irish nationalism (and the IRA etc)... it's a bit unhealthy I think. It's like the issues of Northern Ireland have been transposed to two football clubs in Scotland, and misguidedly too (since the Irish nationalist movement is not tied in any way to Catholicism). That said, it's funny how there are always so many Irish tricolours and Ireland jerseys in the crowd at a Celtic match And I spotted fucking loads of Celtic jerseys on TV in Japan for the Ireland matches during the last world cup

well i'm a Leeds United fan, and i would love to see this happen.It never will though sadly, I don't think either team would be willing to forsake the guaranteed European football they get yearly.They would have to work their way up the English divisions the same as every other team.They wouldn't be allowed to just waltz into the Premier League, or any other league for that matter.

Shame, it looks like Scotland is stuck with the same two teams battling for the title every year forevermore.Must be boring that.

Being an ABERDEEN man-I gotta say 1)Thanks for the 7-0 thrashing, 2)We gonna kick some blue ass this afternoon, and 3)IT AINT EVER GONNA HAPPEN!.
I for one don't look forward to seeing Aberdeen playing Dunfermline, Partick, or Motherwell all the time.At least pklaying one of the Bigot Brothers gives us a chance to vent our anger!!

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Yeah it's just no fun seeing Dundee Utd getting their ass handed to them on a plate by Celtic anymore... dunno why but the novelty has worn off

Right, I'm off to Pittodrie!

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As the song goes “and if you know your history”, a lot of people don’t. Our Irish roots are quite simply really. An Irish priest called Brother Walfrid founded Celtic. The reason Celtic was formed was for two main reasons. First of all to raise money for the poor and secondly to help integrate the Irish community into society. Hence the name Celtic as it is a direct link with Scotland and Ireland. During the Irish famine where millions starved and a British government stood by and did nothing. Many fled to America and the west of Scotland. So in short, if it weren’t for the Irish famine or the Irish who founded the club there wouldn’t be Celtic Football Club. Celtic are a Scottish club with strong Irish roots. That is heritage that is romance, which enriches the clubs history.

As far as modern day politics are concerned with nationalism and the IRA etc. Personally, I’m not interested. I’m only into Celtic for the football. Celtic does have a mainly Catholic following but the club is for everyone regardless of religion creed or race. I am a very proud Scotsman, however Celtic’s Irish roots should never be twisted as bigotry. The Irish tri-colour will always fly at Celtic Park for the simple reasons that I have just stated.

Hey thebumpsqaud, congratulations. A very good 2-2 result with the huns. Thanks, this is very much appreciated. Now Celtic can claim top spot tomorrow against Thistle.

Wooo… Dirty Leeds. ) your point regarding European football is one I’d gladly sacrifice, besides in my opinion it would only be a short time sacrifice. I think it would only take a couple of seasons for Celtic to establish themselves in England. Financially just being in the Premiership would more than cover any lost revenue from Europe. For Celtic and Rangers to be allowed straight into the Premiership doesn’t seem likely. I would gladly play a season in the Nationwide, certainly not any lower than that. It all seems far-fetched though. Pity.

I can understand what Celtic and Rangers could gain from this much vaunted idea, but what does the Premiership get?
Can you really imagine the scenario whereby the Chairmen of clubs like Southampton or Birmingham would say "Oh yes, you Glasgow clubs are so much bigger than us, we'll forgoe our place in The Premiership for you"
It'll never happen. I also think that the level of violence and Scotish/English nationalism that will come into play makes it a non-starter.
Everyone is gushing about how well Celtic played the other night, deservably, but not much about the thousands who went to Ewood Park without tickets. That is exactly what led to Hillsorough, fans travelling without tickets.
I personally don't see it as desirable. If they want to join, begin in the Dr Martins like Wimbledon AFC have just done.
Devolution Baby, You reap what You Sow

What the Premiership would get is two very big clubs. As far as Celtic are concerned only Manchester United could rival the size of our club. There’s no doubt that Celtic and Rangers would be a shot in the arm for the Premiership.
As far as the chairman of Birmingham and Southampton are concerned, I would totally agree with you on that point.
Your quip regarding devolution is inaccurate. Wales has devolution baby. I believe Wales has 2 or 3 clubs playing in England. So why not Celtic and Rangers!
It would be interesting, but I’m realistic to know that it won’t happen. Maybe the big guns are just running scared. ;D

What Celtic are about:-
The best that Celtic stands for is supporting the charitable principles of its founder.
Brother Walfrid set up Celtic as a way of raising money to support children in the East End of Glasgow by providing money for the Poor Children's Dinner Table.
Action to be taken
The Celtic Charity Fund has been set up by Celtic to put into practice Celtic's charitable principles. The Celtic Charity Fund is being used in three principal areas of support. These are
 Children’s needs charities
 Community action on drugs
 Projects that develop and promote religious and ethnic harmony
Other areas include
 Supporting the homeless
 Helping the unemployed
 Support and research for projects aiding the afflictions of illness, famine and innocent families within areas of war
The best that Celtic stands for is promoting health and well-being, understanding and positive social integration.
Celtic began in part as a way of using sport to bridge cultures between Scotland and Ireland. Celtic continues to seek ways to bring people together and create understanding.
Action to be taken
Celtic will act as a medium for promoting health and well-being. Celtic will support initiatives that offer hope to those affected by the scourge of drug misuse
Celtic will encourage positive links between the education sector and the Club through our Match Day Visit programme.
Celtic will act to expand links with Scottish schools to support learning in the areas of sport, health, social issues and personal and social development.
Celtic will act to promote positive social integration in partnership with others in schemes that bring people together to share positive values associated with the best in football.
Celtic will support schemes that seek to create bridges between different cultures and sectors of society within Ireland and Scotland.
Celtic aims to support schemes in Northern Ireland that have as their aim the building of bridges between different communities.
Celtic aims to promote schemes that enhance cooperation between communities in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.


The best that Celtic stands for is an inclusive organisation being open to all regardless of age, sex, race, religion or disability..
Celtic has always been a Club willing to offer a welcome to all.
Action to be taken
Celtic acts as an inclusive organisation being open to all regardless of age, sex, religion, race or ability.
Celtic offers a welcome to all who come to Celtic Park and asks that they conduct themselves in a manner which reflects well on themselves and on Celtic.
Celtic aims to improve the conditions in which fans watch and participate in order to maximise the enjoyment of individuals and the crowd attending games as Celtic supporters. The Club seeks to provide a quality service for all its customers.
Celtic will adopt an equal opportunities policy in the areas of employment and service provision.
Celtic will aim to increase the attendance of children at football and aim to promote their participation in sport through a variety of activities. Celtic will aim to have close links with education authorities, schools and community groups through our Match Day Visits.
Celtic will act against racism and sectarianism in any form. Celtic will not tolerate actions and language that seek to promote racism and sectarianism. Celtic aims to support the guidelines issued by the Commission for Racial Equality.
Celtic aims to positively respond to the needs of all supporters to ensure that all fans are enabled to overcome any barriers to their participation in support of the Club. Celtic will consult with supporters with disabilities, sensory impairment or learning difficulties to ensure that the Club meets their needs as supporters.
Celtic will be pleased to work together with all organisations and bodies that share such aims for football. The Club will consult with employees, shareholders, supporters and supporters’ representatives to ensure that all share the aims of Celtic’s Social Charter.
The best that Celtic stands for involves all associated with the club upholding a shared set of values that include success, fair play, tolerance, respect and appreciation of skills.
The Celtic spirit on the field has always involved flair, commitment and willingness to play exciting football. There are a set of positive values that Celtic would like to be shared by management and staff, players and fans.
Action to be taken
Celtic players will be expected to carry out their work to the best values linked to sport.
All associated with Celtic appreciate good skills in football. Celtic offers respect to all opponents.
All associated with Celtic will avoid abusive actions and language in supporting success for Celtic.
Celtic will promote the values associated with the Charter throughout the activities of the Club.
Celtic welcomes all true football fans to Celtic Park.
The best that Celtic stands for is the renowned qualities of its supporters and their relationship with the Club.
Celtic fans are renowned wherever they travel for their passion and love for the game of football. In addition when the fans carry with honour the image and colours of the Club they act in a way that brings credit to Celtic and reflects well on the good name of the fans and the Club.
Action to be taken
The supporters, the Club and its owners have high expectations for the team on the field and a high regard for the fans.
The management and employees of the Club aim to provide the best quality service to the fans and aim to live up to their expectations for success for the Club. The Club should continue to improve the service it provides to its customers.
Celtic will continue to listen to and respect the advice and opinions of its supporters and endeavour to consult and communicate with the fans.
The fans play a vital part in ensuring the success of Celtic Football Club. The fans inspire the team and contribute to the Celtic spirit.
The Celtic spirit among the fans means devoted encouragement and faithful support for the team. Celtic fans know the history of the Club and are committed to the ideals associated with the founding of the Club.
Celtic asks all fans to ensure that they live up to best that Celtic stands for.
The best that Celtic stands for is the renowned qualities of its supporters and their relationship with the Club.
Celtic Supporters are proud to be ambassadors for all that the Club stands for. The ownership of the Club has moved from the few to the many. The fans played a key role in changing the company to one with a large number of shareholders and one of the most successful fan shareholdings in football with around 15,000 fans owning shares in the Club. Up until 1995 only about 200 people owned shares.
The number of season ticket holders is one of the largest in European football and no British club can compare to Celtic's 53,000 season ticket holders. Celtic regularly play before crowds of around 60,000 fans. Through the webcasts from Celtic TV thousands of other Celtic fans from around the world are logged on to Celtic games and Celtic news.
The Celtic Supporters Association has represented fans since 1946. Over the years they have provided a focus for the fans to travel to games and meet to share their passion for Celtic. The CSA also share the Club's charitable principles and raise large sums of money for a wide range of good causes. The CSA raised around £100,000 for the children of Dunblane Primary to visit Florida. A few of the children and staff came to Celtic Park to thank the fans and the office holders of the CSA in the centre circle at a home game. After thanking the fans the CSA officials, the school staff and the young people from Dunblane walked off the pitch to the strains of "You'll Never Walk Alone."
Celtic fans are usually the number one name on the guest list for many long-serving football players considering which team to invite to a testimonial. Celtic fans not only add thousands to the gate for such matches but also add to the occasion with their singing and support of good football.
We don't care if we win, lose or draw,
What the hell do we care'
'Cos we only know
That's there's going to be a show
And the Glasgow Celtic will be there.

ScottNPG said:

...but would the supporters or perhaps the players welcome Barry Ferguson in2 the team if they tried 2 buy him?

Erm! I only suggested that it would be Celtic & Rangers playing in the Premiership. As for Celtic signing Barry Fergushun, he wouldn't get a game for the Celtic reserves.

ScottNPG said:

oh sorry dude. I misread. Either way. Cool idea. U just know it aint gonna happen tho...

ScottNPG said:[quote]What Celtic are about:-
The best that Celtic stands for is supporting the charitable principles of its founder.blah blah blah

Stand in the Septic end at the next Old Firm game and see exactly the charitable principles you support.

Celtic where formed to stop the young Irish from going to soup kitchens which were being run by non-Catholic organisations and this 'mixing' was not encouraged by Brother Wally.It was prefered to segregate and not as you wrote to integrate , this is something which is sadly still very much part of Scottish society.

At least your chief executive has good taste in football .
[This message was edited Sat Nov 16 18:54:22 PST 2002 by allanb]

SUPER KILLIE

ScottNPG said:

Hey, you'll get no complaints from me about that! It's quite nice to see all the crossover between Ireland and Celtic fans. However there are always a few idiots and some of the violence etc that occurs between Celtic and Rangers fans (for example) shows how all the flag waving IS often twisted into bigotry.

All lot of bigotry comes from ignorance. Education is the cure, however there will always be people like allanb who neither want to be cured or educated.

ScottNPG said:

Just because I don't agree with your comments doesn't make me a bigot, which I am most definately not and take a certain degree of offense to being called.
You see Celtic through green-tinted glasses and that's great but don't always slam people with different ideas, that's how this mess started in the first place.
There's nothing wrong with being proud of what you stand for and I admire you for that but not at the expense of other peoples ideas and with a complete loss of any humour.
My earlier comments were a mixture of belief and a little wind-up for what I thought might create a little 'banter'.
Don't take life too seriously Scott, and you can borrow top slot until Dec 5.

Hey you've clearly got great taste in music so don't worry 1 out of 2 ain't bad.

There’s a big difference between banter and what you have written in your post. What I have written is factual information. It is not my opinion, it’s the truth, it’s history, and it’s how life is today. Yep of course there was an element of banter and wind up, however some of it was most definitely not. You’re either an ignoramus or a complete wide’o’.
___
allanb said;
Celtic where formed to stop the young Irish from going to soup kitchens which were being run by non-Catholic organisations and this 'mixing' was not encouraged by Brother Wally.It was prefered to segregate and not as you wrote to integrate , this is something which is sadly still very much part of Scottish society.
___
This is all of course is total bullshit. Banter! I don’t see any! Ignorance, most definitely. If you’re not a bigot then you should be able to accept the truth and the diversity of other people’s religion and culture. The story of Celtic is a great one of triumph over all adversity and prejudice towards the early Irish both Protestant and Catholic who where fleeing from the starvation where millions died as a British government stood by and did more or less nothing. Hence the celebrated song ‘The Fields of Athenry’. I suggest you read my posts again.
TRUTH IS INCONTROVERTIBLE. PANIC MAY RESENT IT; IGNORANCE MAY DERIDE IT; MAILICE MAY DISTORT IT; BUT THERE IT IS.

I do have great taste in music. At least you got something right.

Okay, where do I begin, at no time did I try to offend or be offensive but you've continued down that line whenever you read another point of view other than one in which you subscribe to.
As far as my views being bullshit and not based on fact,I'll try and clear some of this up;

1. My point about Brother W. was based from memory from a paragraph from the book The Old Firm by Dr. Bill Murray, I'll quote direct, 'as well as concern for the suffering of the poor,Brother Walfrid was also prompted by a fear that Protestant soup kitchens might tempt young Catholics into apostasy.Moreover he was equally worried about the dangers of young Catholics meeting Protestants in their place of employment or leisure, particularly during the years after leaving school which he considered the most dangerous so far as religious duties were concerned.A Catholic football club could keep young Catholics together free from the temptations of Protestantism'.

2. My point about segregation rather than integration is shown above and also from the circular Jan 1888 announcing the formation of Celtic, I won't copy the whole document but such points as 'we can select a team which will do credit to the Catholics of the West of Scotland, 'a large recreation ground where our Catholic young men will be able to enjoy various sports.
These quotes are from the circular from Celtic and I guess it's what you'd call fact.I believe no other club apart from Hibernian at this point had tryed to bring religion and sport together.

3.As far as your points on the tragedy of the Irish famine, I don't know enough on Irish history as I am a Scotsman and I woudn't offend any true Irishmen by trying to comment on the complicated history of Ireland.
As you seem rather affected by this can I suggest checking out the composer Patrick Cassidy who wrote an incredible piece of music in remeberance of the tragedy.

In all the points you put above regarding bringing communities together etc. don't really go with the initial reasons for the formation of the club and that was my original point all along before you took it all pesonal.

Peace
[This message was edited Fri Nov 22 13:44:12 PST 2002 by allanb]

Good show allanb. I see you've tried to write a sensible reply this time, although consistent with your other posts, inaccurate. As far as going down the “oh, I’m so offended” route is not the case. I enjoy a good debate that’s all. Sometimes you’ve got to angle for a debate, which I think I have now succeeded in doing.
What Bill Murray has written is sinister to say the least, certainly not factual. How impartial is Billy Boy Murray? No doubt he’d probably agree that the Rangers away top is tangerine! His views are so twisted it is almost the opposite of the truth. Education goes a long way to curing bigotry however that task is made more difficult when people like your good self believe the crap that Bill Murray has written.

By the time Walfrid arrived in Glasgow, the children of the original immigrants were lodged, almost exclusively, in the east end of Glasgow. By then the City had suffered some economic shocks including the failure of the City of Glasgow Bank. The Forge steelworks was badly affected by this and many were thrown out of work. The already poor East End became even more so. Children were unable to focus at school, even if they did attend, because of the hunger they experienced. Walfrid and Dorotheus were concerned about the degree of absenteeism, and poor concentration, among their respective pupils. Together with the Saint Vincent de Paul Society, Walfrid set about providing some sustenance for the poor. Although some of their activity was inspired by the fear of proselytising due to a number of active Protestant soup kitchens, the problem of the catholic poor was so great that this view must be treated with cynicism.

The Marist Brother Walfrid had two principal aims:
 The first was to raise funds to provide food for the poor of the East End of Glasgow, an area of the city that was greatly impoverished and had a very high rate of infant mortality.
 Within the East End was a large Irish community and friction was growing between native Glaswegians and the new influx of Irish. Brother Walfrid saw the need for social integration and his vision was a football club that Scottish and Irish, Protestants and Catholics alike could support. A new football club would be a vehicle to bring the communities together and this was the second aim.
 The Marist brother sought for the club to have both a Scottish and Irish identity and hence the club's name, Celtic, representing a bridge of cultures across the Irish Sea.

Over the last 100 years, Celtic's connection has often been challenged and still is today by few, some are even prominent members of the Scottish media. Yet Celtic's connection to Ireland is a very positive one as shown in the club's Social Mission Statement.
The Marist Brother sought for the club to have both a Scottish and Irish identity and hence, the club's name, 'Celtic' came about, representing a bridge of cultures across the Irish Sea. The following words were well summed up by Celtic and Republic of Ireland international goal-keeping legend Pat Bonner when he said:
“ I believe the link Celtic forms between Scotland and Ireland is a positive one and that it can once again become a vehicle for bringing Scottish and Irish, Catholics and Protestants together in harmony as was the aim of the club's founder Brother Walfrid”.
Celtic is proud of its joint Scottish and Irish identity and the principles the club was founded on. The Irish tri-colour flies as a fond reminder of the positive influence Brother Walfrid and many other Irish people have had on Scottish life.
Importantly, as the club has stated on many occasions, it views the colours of the tri-colour as standing for the white of peace between the orange and green communities of Ireland.

newpowersoul