paintedlady said:

She also thinks we Americans are all heathens for celebrating Thanksgiving on the day we do.

Long live the Turkey, mashed potatoes, and stories of savagery I say!

Reading this thread has been a learning experience. People without children trying to tell me what to do cracks me tha fuck up always. Always.

I always had great kids. My oldest will be 21 next week and was the easiest kid on earth to raise. the middle kid has a disability but I never had to spank him for his behaviors. The youngest waited until the day she turned 12 to turn into the spawn of Satan. Nice voice didn't work. Stern voice didn't work. Yelling and screaming didn't work. She got out of hand one day and I told her I was going to beat her ass. My daughter is my height by the way. She got to the point that when I said I would beat her ass, she would say she'd leave. Scared the fuck outta me and I didn't hit her. So, she got out of pocket one day and for the first time in my life I "spanked" my child. More like an ass whoopin'. She went out the front door and I locked that bitch behind her. Five minutes later she was back. I haven't had to get in her ass since.

paintedlady said:

Christ, I'd hate to be your offspring.

Deliberate shaming or humiliation of another person is a form of psychological abuse, Sparky.

And if it's nto about hitting, why hit? Might as well kick and say it's not about kicking, or vote McCain/Palin and say it's not about supporting the Republican Party.

paintedlady said:

Christ, I'd hate to be your offspring.

Deliberate shaming or humiliation of another person is a form of psychological abuse, Sparky.

And if it's nto about hitting, why hit? Might as well kick and say it's not about kicking, or vote McCain/Palin and say it's not about supporting the Republican Party.

FunkMistress said:

You, ma'am, are a victim of MommyBullshit-itis, wherein the act of being a mother makes you believe you're the keeper of some secret knowledge us who keep our knees together can't possibly possess.

If an adult -even a stupid and ignorant adult -has a right not to be hit as means of punishment, then why in Christ's name doesn't a child?

What makes an adult so damned special that it would be a criminal offense to "tap" one with a belt or a hairbrush, but not a kid?

Why can only parents and not teachers or clergy spank a kid?

Why are so many recognized and respected groups speaking out against spanking as useless at best?

How do you think people who don't spank teach their children?

Why would any country ban it if it were at least useful?

Will one of you pro-spanking advocates answer even one of these? So far none of you have even attempted it. Or is it just too hard to question why you think it's okay to hit kids?

hokie said:

If by heathen you mean racist, then yes. That fact that you felt the need to mention "savegery" seals the deal here.

we are soo off topic. Dusty, girl just stay strong and this goes to all of the strong parents in this tread as well.

paintedlady said:

I second that emotion.

meow85 said:

See, now you feel like its cool to start talking down to me, calling me sparky and shit . You really have some serious control issues, a need to be right all the time shows weakness on many levels on your part.

No need to worry about how I (or any one else) rears their children, looks like you need to focus on you.

FunkMistress -so let me get this straight: It's acceptable to spank kids because they are not your equals?

And yes, adults do have the legal and social right not to be hit or spanked. You may think differently of individuals -hell, I think differently of individuals. Some adults need a good, hard slap. But that doesn't change the fact that an adult is legally and socially entitled not to have that done to them. I don't know about the legal system where you live, but here an adult can take another adult to court for having hit them, and the cops and courts wouldn't laugh about it. Assault is assault, even if it is just a little shove or a "tap".

So what entitles adults to this right not to be hit or spanked that children don't have?

Stymie said:

So how do you think parents who don't spank would handle that? Millions of families don't and their kids turn out just fine. You can't tell me those children are all well-mannered exceptions.

meow85 said:

I have no idea. all I know is I tried everything down to calling DCFS to help me with her, the police, and looking into sending her away.

I am trying to save my daughter's life and keep her from becoming a mom before it's time. The bottom line is I'll do whatever the fuck I have to now. You have zero idea what it's like to raise a child, let alone on the streets of Chicago.

hokie said:

If by heathen you mean racist, then yes. That fact that you felt the need to mention "savegery" seals the deal here.

FunkMistress -so let me get this straight: It's acceptable to spank kids because they are not your equals?

And yes, adults do have the legal and social right not to be hit or spanked. You may think differently of individuals -hell, I think differently of individuals. Some adults need a good, hard slap. But that doesn't change the fact that an adult is legally and socially entitled not to have that done to them. I don't know about the legal system where you live, but here an adult can take another adult to court for having hit them, and the cops and courts wouldn't laugh about it. Assault is assault, even if it is just a little shove or a "tap".

So what entitles adults to this right not to be hit or spanked that children don't have?

Stymie said:

No, I don't. And I don't pretend to, either. I can't even begin to imagine what raising a child must be like.

But what I do know is that millions of families around the world do not spank, and have found other, non-violent methods that work. And since it's statistically impossible that all of their children are wonderful and reasonable, they must have found a way to deal with their kids being stupid that didn't involve physical force.

meow85 said:

Well I will say again that I have a kid that I never ever had to spank. The girl I never had a problem with til later. It is all well and good those other folks didn't have to spank their kids but I ask two things: are they in my same circumstance? And what did they do that I haven't tried?

Stymie said:

And that I can't answer. But it's simply not possible that families that do not spank have never had problems, small or serious, with their kids. So obviously there are alternatives.

One more thing I'd like to add is I think us women should stick together and support each other. Why as women do we try and tear each other down? You don't see men doing that.

Meow, I want to say that I DO admire your tenacity and your passion about things you believe in. You remind me a lot about myself when I was younger. I am still passionate, but now that I'm older and have experienced life more I think I'm more open to other peoples' differences. I'm sure there are loads of things I'm "ignorant" about too. I love to learn and I have an open mind to hear others' take on things. I can learn a lot from Ivy and Erin...two bad ass mothers that raised their kids (at least at one point) in tough cities. They're experiences and perspectives are different than mine and I would love to learn from them. I admire them both greatly. They're tough, tough women and AWESOME mothers. I hope that if you ever choose to have children that you have the same priveledge as I have to meet such fine women.

Let's all just help each other, pick each other up instead of bashing one another. It really makes me sad.

Ivy and Erin: You guys have my respect and I admire you guys. I've learned from you and I don't think I've said it before, but thank you for sharing what you have with me.

I hope to meet you both one day.

i couldnt read all that shit.
but from the few words i picked out i feel its time to fire up the ovens.

One more thing I'd like to add is I think us women should stick together and support each other. Why as women do we try and tear each other down? You don't see men doing that.

Meow, I want to say that I DO admire your tenacity and your passion about things you believe in. You remind me a lot about myself when I was younger. I am still passionate, but now that I'm older and have experienced life more I think I'm more open to other peoples' differences. I'm sure there are loads of things I'm "ignorant" about too. I love to learn and I have an open mind to hear others' take on things. I can learn a lot from Ivy and Erin...two bad ass mothers that raised their kids (at least at one point) in tough cities. They're experiences and perspectives are different than mine and I would love to learn from them. I admire them both greatly. They're tough, tough women and AWESOME mothers. I hope that if you ever choose to have children that you have the same priveledge as I have to meet such fine women.

Let's all just help each other, pick each other up instead of bashing one another. It really makes me sad.

Ivy and Erin: You guys have my respect and I admire you guys. I've learned from you and I don't think I've said it before, but thank you for sharing what you have with me.

I hope to meet you both one day.

paintedlady said:

You advocate spanking children but can't show any reason or logic for it, nor answer legitimate questions about, and not only that advocate it as a method of shaming or humiliation, which is a form of psychological abuse. And I'm the one with problems?



Smack your kids all you want, if you think it does any good. But don't pretend there aren't questions surrounding the practice, or flaws in the justification for doing so.

Stymie said:

And that I can't answer. But it's simply not possible that families that do not spank have never had problems, small or serious, with their kids. So obviously there are alternatives.

meow85 said:

Ridilin?

morningsong said:

no.. never that.. that has bad side effects (yeah, I know they're giving this to some kids, but they shouldn't) ..

Flowers2 said:

It sure gets used a lot.

BTW, Here's a list of countries that have fully outlawed the use of physical punishment against children, and the year they did so:

Sweden 1979
Finland 1983
Norway 1987
Austria 1989
Cyprus 1994
Denmark 1997
Latvia 1998
Croatia 1999
Bulgaria 2000
Israel 2000
Germany 2000
Iceland 2003
Romania 2004
Ukraine 2004
Hungary 2005
Greece 2006
Taiwan 2006
Chile 2007
Netherlands 2007
New Zealand 2007
Portugal 2007
Spain 2007
Uruguay 2007
Venezuela 2007
Costa Rica 2008

That's quite the hefty list of countries alowing their children to have no sense of boundaries, morals, or respect for authority. It should be noted that Sweden and Finland, the two first countries to ban physical punishment, also have some of the lowest crime rates in the western world. If these kids are so obviously not being taught proper fear and respect for authority, shouldn't the crime rates be much higher?

Kind of long--complaining post.

When my kids were babies, I thought I had it so hard. Danny was 4, and Adam was one when I had Naiema. I can remember basically getting no sleep on some nights with one kid getting up at night after another. I had no social life and went practically everywhere with my kids. One in the shopping cart seat, one in the back of the cart and one holding my hand. I couldn't keep my job. Day care was too expensive. My husband was pretty much never home.

A few years ago, my daughter loved everything Disney, still gave me spontaneous hugs and let me braid her hair every day. She wore what I picked out for her and talked to me all the time.

My boys would sneak up at night to play video games. Create costumes based off their favorite anime characters and play sword fight in the yard. My main complaint was the constant wrestling and flipping around the house.

Now my oldest son is 15, my middle son turns 13 on Friday and my daughter will be 12 in December. Now I cry at night sometimes, not out of frustration or fatigue, but because my oldest is heading in the wrong direction. He actually hurts my feelings some times with the things he says and does. He's so inconsiderate and ungrateful.

He has to get up at 5:30 a.m. to catch the high school bus at 6:15. Lights out is 10 p.m. Not to mention he shares a room with his brother who daily tells me nearly falls asleep on the bus in the afternoon. So last night around 10:10, the lights and TV are still on, and I go in to say good night, and tell them it's lights out time. My son is looking at a skate catalog and tells me no. I turn the light out anyway and he actually threw the catalog at me and it hit me in my chest port (where I used to get chemo). I took the book and shut his door. He then rips open the door to confront me about my attitude. I slapped him in his face. He continued to try to get in my face. I was trying so hard not to push him, which I didn't do. I ended it by telling him I was going to get his Dad in there. I felt bad about slapping him, but all he had to do was put the magazine down and leave it at that. I can't have him thinking he can bully me. He was actually confrontational with me. I told him to get in the bed, and he says crap like, "no. I want to know what your problem is," about two feet from my face. What the hell????!!!!!

He's like that all the time now. Never wants to listen. Argues about everything. Failing his classes (doesn't turn work in, even though he knows how to do it). Sneaks around and smokes cigarettes. Has a girlfriend that has some emotional problems (cuts herself and takes pills). The music he listens to is that horrible sounding screaming, heavy sounding music. He calls it black-metal or death-metal. I'm just at my wits end with him.

My daughter is only concerned about her friends and boys. If I go in her room, she'll say to her friend on the phone, "hold on my mom's in here." She won't let me fix her hair anymore and hates all the clothes I pick out for her. She doesn't even say "good night, I love you," anymore to me.

I can't complain about my middle son except for his grades. He does what he's told, helps out without being asked, is getting into playing drums and guitar with his dad and is generally good natured.

I guess what I'm trying to say with all this is that babies and little kids are no where near as hard to deal with as pre-teen and teens. I never thought my kids would break my heart.