I don't get it at all...

"You're lonely and depressed you need a thug in your life." - 2pac.

What is the fascination with this "thug" shit? What is meant by "thug" today? Maybe I am not getting this, but I don't think that being a thug is a good thing... in fact, I think that it is fucking reprehensible.

Am I missing something here? Why is being a thug considered a good thing by some?

DEFINITIONS OF THUG FOLLOW:

thug

n : an aggressive young criminal [syn: hood, hoodlum, goon, punk, tough, toughie]

Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

---

thug

\Thug\, n. An assassin; a ruffian; a rough. ``Thugs and midnight rounders.'' --The Century.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

---

thug ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thg)
n.

A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.

also Thug One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India who worshiped Kali and offered their victims to her.

[Hindi hag, perhaps from Sanskrit sthaga, a cheat, from sthagati, sthagayati, he conceals. See (s)teg- in Indo-European Roots.]

thugger·y n.
thuggish adj.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Some see it as having power, I think. Control over people, etc..

AzureStar said:

Any dumb asshole with a gun can have power and control over other people while still being a sickening coward and a useless piece of shit.

IceNine said:

Any dumb asshole can, that is true. But, I think the thugs today aren't just gun toting dumb asses. They live the "thug" life which they see as having power.

AzureStar said:

I would like it if you could explain to me how one lives the "thug life" without doing crimes and how this "thug life" is a good thing.

Please...

IceNine said:

I am not a thug, so I am not certain how one goes about living the thug life, however, I would venture a guess that a true thug would not be the one doing the crime. They would have their "men" doing the crimes for them, thus, being the one in power. They would flash whatever fancy shit they had, if any, again to show power. Once they are known as a thug, people are frightened of them and they can pretty much get away with anything. I would guess that these thugs thrive off of this so-called power they think they have, and the women and men who are associated with them thrive off of it as well.

I don't know if a thug can be a thug without doing crimes, what I meant earlier is that they weren't only gun toting assholes. I think it goes further than that...

I can't explain to you why I think it's a good life, because I don't think it is.



.
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 6:23:57 PST 2002 by AzureStar]

Well, since AzureStar and I cannot figure out what could possibly be good about being a thug, could anyone else step in and assist?

(raises deflector shields)

Speaking for myself, I feel they are fascinating.

Take the average nerd, or geek...and compare - who is more interesting?

Who will offer a more exciting life? It might be a dangerous life, but if given a dangerous situation or lifestyle, who would protect you?

(sits happily behind her shield)



:O
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 6:32:23 PST 2002 by LaVisHh]

IceNine said:

No, I can't assist. I just want to say that I agree 100% with you, IceNine. I've wondered the same thing myself for years (especially now that I have children), and I applaud you for bringing this issue up.

LaVisHh said:

I am fascinated by serial killers and mass murderers as well, but I don't want to live the "serial killer life," nor do I have "Serial Killer Life" tattooed on my body like a badge of honor... you see what I am saying?

You see tons of people walking around wearing shirts, jackets, etc. that say "Thug Life" on them.

"You're lonely and depressed you need a serial killer in your life..."

IceNine said:

That would make for a good shirt, Tony!

hehe

I was looking at the question you raised.

As for wanting to be a part of it - I think it's an acceptance thing. Or maybe it's the fault of those who have airplay?

Youth tend to be followers, and if the person they admire or look up to is presented in such a manner...you get the picture

Guess I am not fit to answer your main point, which is who'd wanna live it. Because I wouldn't.

They view it as a sign of status... don't you think?

AzureStar said:

Some ignorant fuckers also view going to prison as a sign of manhood... this is the type of ignorant shit that I am trying to understand.

IceNine said:

I don't think you will ever understand it, Tony. I know I won't.

People are fascinated by the so called "thug life" because it provides material goods and a fair amount of power,along with the allure of the "edgy" or dangerous...a thug is supposedly above the law...he/she takes whatever or whoever they want with impulsiveness and force,regardless of consequences or opposition from legal forces. Being a "thug" gives people who otherwise feel powerless and insecure a way to gain respect of a sort, a sense of importance. It is similar in a fashion to those who turn to street gangs in order to create a "family" they otherwise didn't have.
There is nothing positive about this lifestyle and it makes me sick how it is being glorified across this country. The ways of a thug only lead to his or her own self destruction along with severe damage to their families and community.The thug is a negative stereotype that many people (entertainers and others) have made to look glamourous. By placing the focus of "thug life" on money,fast cars and faster women as a marketing strategy, it makes it easier for potential thugs to overlook the very real (and negative) consequences. Yes there is a chance of fame and wealth, but the thug lifestyle is much more likely to leave a person dead or incarcerated...unfortunately the alaming statistics in gang and drug deal related deaths(particularly among youth) doesn't seem to stop anyone from buying into the images that promote this lifestyle. Sad isn't it?

The person best to ask is the white kid who doesn't have any reason to be a thug.Most people become thugs out of a friendship or bond with their neighborhood.They usually are poor and do crime because they cannot get a job and see it as the only way to get decent money.Prince said it best "Who's to blame when he's got no place to go and all he's got is the sense to know that a life of crime will help him BEAT YOU IN THE RACE".This is how it was in th past.Now the media has glamorized it and made it COOL.Now everybody wants to be a thug.Kids have always had a fascination with gangsters and thugs because of how they are portrayed.Also you can't judge a person by their clothes now.The people in the media and government are the biggest thugs to me.I have alot of friends who look "thuggish" and do more charity work than most will do in a lifetime.They just like the style.And NO! i am not a thug,i have never been to jail for anything before anyone asks.I have had a steady job since i was 18.And Ice i remember you playing the part of a gangster on here

My point in all of this is that I think that it is very sad when people's role models are criminals or sports heroes rather than intelligent, upstanding people who make a positive impact on the world.

Maybe I am just a total square... this is possible... but I don't think that crime is a good thing and I think that romanticizing the criminal lifestyle does nothing but cause harm to society in that it makes crime look enticing and romantic.

Probably for the same reason that Tony Soprano gets so many women. The illusion of power.

4LOVE said:

Good response... I think that you are right... the media is partially responsible for the problem. The media typically will try to romanticize things to sell advertising and boost ratings... it is pathetic.

I "played" ganster on here, this is true. PLAYED I didn't live it!

But you do have a point about the government being thugs as well... the CIA go around and kill people, sell drugs, etc., they are the kings of the thugs... excellent.

In summary of my whole point it takes a lots less effort to pack a piece and take what you want then to go to school,get a good job and EARN it. The weak-minded and lazy see their utter lack of impulse control as a badge of honor and its becoming an increasingly common problem...

IceNine said:

Alot of rappers do the same thing,then get "caught up" in the real thug world.Listen to early tupac and latter day tupac.Two totally different people.

IceNine said:

Although identified with the "Thugh Life" Tupac is nowhere near the root of American culture's fascination with criminals. The outlaw has a mythology and literature that goes as far back as the frontiersmen. The iconization of the "cowboy" paralleled that of the "badman."

The Western outlaw combined with the mafia don and you have what most are celebratin as the "thug life." These are folks RAISED on "Scarface" and "The Godfather," and that's their idea of "thug." Is it any surprise that "The Sopranos" is one of the most highly rated programs in television at the moment?

The tone of this discussion seems to want to put hip hop at the center of the discussion on thug life. Before you go scapegoating hip hop culture, take a look at the larger culture.

NuPwrSoul said:

I am specifically talking about ANYONE who proudly proclaims "thug life" and tries to live that lifestyle.

The outlaw has always fascinated society but it is no longer in the realm of fantasy now...

"The shit that I be saying ain't nothin' worse than a western movie..." - Scarface

I know that some rappers, such as Scarface, claim that they are merely providing entertainment... the problem is that many of those who listen to it do not take it as such.

At least in rock, disco, techno, country and western music, etc., the message is not about killing, pimping and doing "gangsta shit." With this in mind, a large part of the problem is indeed the hip-hop culture, but I cannot deny the influence of other forms of media as well.

If drugs were legalized, this cultural distortion would vanish.

teller said:

Yes!

This is very much like Al Capone and his buddies during prohibition... legalization takes the market away from the criminals.

teller said:

mmhmmm... I agree with you.

Thug-- A clssless idiot, uncultivated person with nothing going 4 them but a street like reputation 4 being a trouble maker. One who dresses with his pants falling off of him is the description of a thug. As if the belt has not been invented. One who classifies a drum machine as his band. One who takes a trip 2 the dentist and comes back with gold teeth and proud of it. Thats a thug. Why the excitment over one? only a thug could b attracted 2 one.

Wow...
Very good points on this thread. I agree with those who say that the whole 'rough guy' status (notice I'm not saying 'image' yet) started in the lower-income and poor areas of the country. In the United States, those areas have historically been populated by immigrants and other ethnic minorities.
When some people are pressured to make the choice between committing a crime and feeding/housing their families, in my opinion, the weaker of character choose crime.
Both my father's and mother's families came to this country during the Great Depression (I was a 'change of life' baby so my parents are most likely older than most of yours) both of my grandfathers died when my parents were young and both of my grandmothers spoke very broken English. My Italian grandmother had 10 kids to raise and my Hungarian grandmother had 4 kids to raise. NONE of my uncles or aunts and neither of my parents resorted to crime to make up for what they were missing. In fact, the worst thing my father and his brothers did was take potatoes from the neighbors garden and wait for lumps of coal to fall off of the passing train cars so that they could heat their house.
In my opinion, the whole 'Thug' thing is a cop out. There ARE sooo many opportunites for EVERY kind of person to get help -- scholarships, grants, finanical aid, food stamps, FIA, WIC, etc, etc, etc -- that I cannot buy the fact that people are FORCED to go out killing and robbing and raping for ANY reason.
I hate to think that this country is going to hell in a handbasket, but when this kind of hell is commercialized...it makes me wonder and fear for our kids.
I think what needs to be examined here is the reasons that people are CHOOSING to do this rather than looking at their alternatives.
Is it because of a lack of good parenting? If so, should the government/social services make more of an effort to aid people who are having parenting problems?
Is it because of the evils of Capitalism? In this country today, the self-esteem of many depends upon what they are wearing or their 'look' -- if you take that to the extreme and say that ONLY this expensive pair of athletic shoes or ONLY this expensive leather jacket will make me feel good about myself...could it be that our economic system is telling us that we need to BUY our self-esteem rather than earn and grow it?
I could go on and on...
Any more ideas?
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 8:21:19 PST 2002 by applekisses]