Really,they disrespect Human beings or treat them badly but animals they care about. Well,I care too but People come First in this world and why would you wanna look Insane to get your point across to People? Better to do it Peacefully and let people Choose for Themselves.

okay...this i just dont get..the minute you get into another humans face (anywhere...) is just wrong...to even attempt to justify this activity is beyond me...care to elaborate? im all ears...[/quote]

Yeah. I understand when you are soaked in this culture where they are 'just freakin' animals, man, get over it', it is very hard to see causing the tiniest bit of human inconvenience over them.

But listen. They are suffering, and they are helpless and voiceless. All historically opressed groups have been opressed by saying that they are not people.

"Women aren't men. . .they are fundamentally different. . .they shouldn't be treated like men. . .what right do you have to get in my face and tell me how I can treat my woman?"

"Look. Niggers are niggers, what are you stressing out about? I bought him, I can do what I want with him. It's legal. My pastor says it's ok. What else do you want? Back off!"

Yikes. Those are some pretty insane things to imagine somebody saying these days. But this:

"Animals aren't human, they are animals. . .they are fundamentally different. . .they have no right to be treated like they were people. . .how dare you get in my face and tell me how to live my life?"

this sounds totally reasonable! Right?

Well, I'm challenging that. And I HAVE to--unlike women and black people, the animals will never be able to rise up and demand that you respect their rights. I see that, so I feel obligated to make noise on their behalf, and I have no problem getting in your face if that's what it takes to make you notice what you are doing.

However, getting in your face doesn't mean scaring you, threatening you or your family, burning down your lab, etc. I'm not out to get you, to punish you, or some damn thing like that. Just to make you see what your behavior is doing. Just to make you see that you have victims.

Thanks for asking. Love having a dialogue about this.

Doves,
Mel!ssa

Natasha said:

No, Natasha. Because people do not have the right to choose to condemn individuals to lives of brutality. I'm not going to sit back and say, "well, that's ok, it's your choice." It's not a choice you should have.

If telling you that your actions have nasty consequences is disrespecting you, well. . .that's not my intention, but it's not going to make me go away.

But I'm down with the "Peacefully" part. I do think that this can be done without anybody getting hurt.

Doves,
Mel!ssa

I Don't think being Militant and Overly Aggressive does anything to Help your Cause. It only will scare People thinking you are Crazy and a Radical. Prince says when a Man Screams you must learn how to Whisper. He is Right.

peter still hasn't explained by insects don't have the same rights as other animals...Peter you are an insectist!!!

"SAVE THE BEES!!"

Rhondab said:

Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. I never said anything like that. All life is sacred...

End.
[This message was edited Wed Nov 20 4:51:54 PST 2002 by PeterJL121]

Again I agree with Tackam. This human arrogance of not allowing any factor (living ot not) inconenience them at any time and in any slightest fashion is sickening.

Heart breaking images of humans hunting and killing for bloodlust (A Mother getting food for it's waiting offspring perhaps) makes me sad and upset first and foremost then when finding yourself in a concerned minority this frustration can turn to anger and violence.

Wonder how those jovially taking shots at Deer, ducks, foxes etc would like to become the hunted?

I follow this through to meat production, leather etc. though so it'd be hypocritical of me to focus it on just the hunting issue.

Essence said:

Yeah, everyone was terrified when those snipers were on the loose, yet they put helpless animals through the same thing during hunting season!

End.

Most of them are wear LEATHER shoes

Well, if I saw someone kicking a dog, I'd punch him in the face. If I saw someone torturing a stray kitten, I'd throw him in front of a fast-moving vehicle. I'm not saying it's right, but we all make decisions we think are right.

I think the majority of vegetarians and animal rights activists place a high value on all life (including human life) but that doesn't mean that it is necessarily wrong to take some kind of action against someone that participates in the systematic murder of thousands of innocent animals.

A very small minority of animal rights activists would ever advocate use of violence though, but unfortunately the media uses those isolated high-profile examples as a way to undermine the whole animal rights movement.

That all said, for me personally I wouldn't be too against the idea of blowing up a slaughterhouse (making sure that no one was killed in the process of course). And I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if a meat-industry figure got struck by lightning, or if a fox-hunter was run over 5 or 6 times by a large articulated lorry. That pleases my innate sense of justice. But then, I'm a bastard.

Natasha said:

So you love animals as long as they are cute and cuddly. Let's get that established shall we

Natasha also said:


No, you don't have any such right. Regardless of whether it is a "sin" or not (that word brings religious baggage that I prefer to avoid here) you certainly do not have a "right" to kill whomever / whatever you choose, anymore than I can go out and kill humans on the street right now.

If it takes chucking a bit of paint to get that into your head, I'm all for it. Personally I prefer the peaceful approach and I'm not in favour of any use of violence to make a point or accomplish a goal (as long as there is an alternative).

If you want to talk about what is "criminal", I feel that chucking a bit of paint is nothing in comparison to supporting the meat and dairy industries and their atrocities committed daily against animals

Well an example would be those that tie themselves to tress - Greenpeace. Well they crack me up they will go to extremes to make a point trespass on a military base to get arrestted for the cause then litter. What was that?
Then those people that protest and say that abortion is murder don't kill the babies then turn around and shot a Dr. that they think is doing them. Not know they think do they?
And PETA Don't get me started on them there is no happy medium with anyone that would join this group.Most of them are brain dead from the neck up. The monkeys they rescue from research labs are smarter. Example freeing 20 chimpazes from a lab now their free in your garage what you going to do with them? Let the go. Not in the middle of Los Angeles how long will they last. I hate to say I knew someone that stupid and did not notice this person was dumb as a doorknob until they called me to ask me to help. Because the monkeys would not leave the garage. That was one of those it sounds good on paper but thinking things all the way through just didn't happen. The scary part he's probably the president of the yuckleheads now he was smart enough to get in and out with 20 monkeys with out getting caught you have to give him that. Humans are the only creatures on earth that suffer from ARROGANCE.

?
[This message was edited Tue Jun 10 4:50:19 PDT 2003 by IstenSzek]

queen627 said:

What on earth has the animal rights movement go to do with those crazy ass pro-lifers that shoot people and threaten families etc? You just can't just bundle all issues into one big package for you to dismiss.

PeterJL121 said:

Peter you edited your comment where you stated that you don't like insects.

Give me a break...wow

End.
[This message was edited Thu Nov 21 5:12:02 PST 2002 by PeterJL121]