Shorty said:

In all honesty, I think your contribution to this thread was just because you feel people are too sensitive and you wanted to turn the screw, so to speak. My opinion.

And no, I do not consider my son to be retarded but I do know that people use it as a joke to refer to someone's mental state.

But like I said, do whatever the fuck y'all wanna do. I just hope if we ever met face to face that you'd have enough respect not to say it around me.

Here's what I don't get.

Why the fuck is it so hard to just stop doing things that hurt someone else?

Why the fuck is it so hard to just respect the fact that some people are sensitive?

Like, is it such an inconvenience in your life to stop saying/doing things that obviously hurt others?

If anyone needs to get over it, it's the person who is upset that not everyone thinks/acts the way they do.

Stymie said:

Well, I think you're very sensitive about the subject so you didn't really read what I had originally said. I also said I try not to offend people but if I still do then there's nothing I can do about that. So no...my contributions were not only to turn the screw. Yes people use it to refer to someone's mental state, but not YOUR son's mental state, usually it's used to refer to someone who's mental state is considered normal.
I'd do my best stymie to not offend you accidentally, but I'm 100% certain I would NOT offend you intentionally.

JustErin said:

this is fucked up logic in my book.
cause who draws the line? everyone has a line...everyone gets to push the line up and up and up. This offends, that offends, don't say that, don't say this. I do NOT do anything to intentionally hurt others feelings and I am conscience of the feelings of others most of the time but we can't go living our lives around what might hurt someone elses feelings. Good gawd why is it so hard to respect that not everyone is so sensitive? What hurts people is not always obvious.

Shorty said:

it is really that hard to know shit like "homo" "retarded" or any other slur would hurt someone? Is it really hard to grasp that we are in mixed company here so maybe we should all err on the side of caution? To show just a little common fucking decency?

I guess this means I need to stop saying "Your so stupid" to my husband.

Shorty said:

I'm not talking about when it's not obvious.

I'm talking about when someone, like the person who made this thread, makes it very clear that specific things hurt and why it hurts and people take the attitude of, "well, you're just too sensitive...I'm not changing shit for you...blah, blah, blah." Its like they're more or less saying, "I'm so special and better than you, you're nothing and I'm everything. I’m more important and furthermore right and you’re wrong".

And yes, we can go around living our lives realizing that others may be hurt by our actions/words and we can respect those people - particularly when they are straight out telling us that they are being hurt. Its not like it's a difficult thing to do, its not like it makes our lives difficult, and its certainly not like we would be making some great sacrifice if we do it.

I'm not sure why you even said 'why can't people respect that others are not as sensitive?'. Is it because you think that people who are not sensitive have the right to be insensitive to others because they themselves aren't hurt easily?

Of course people realize that people deal with things differently. The difference is that some have enough respect to not purposely and continuously hurt others and some don't.

When you say to someone, "get over it, I’m not changing and will continue to hurt you"...you’re not respecting that person.

isn't this discussion more or less a matter of tact and respect?

i don't think allowances need to be made for people who are "less sensitive". i don't think it's the job of the "sensitive person" to be respectful of the "less sensitive person" and their choice of words. it's the job of the person to whom those words don't hold some kind of malevolent power to understand how those words might be hurtful to another person, and to know when to leave those words on ice in certain social situations.

if you're around a group of gay people who aren't bothered by "fag" or "that's so gay", then whatever. take that risk. but if you're around someone you don't know, but you DO know they're gay, it isn't going to hurt anyone for you to choose your words with a little bit of care and at least feel out that person before you go around dropping that f bomb and potentially offending someone who has been hurt by that word in the past. it really isn't difficult. and if you really can't find a better word for what you want to say than "fag" or "gay", then maybe it's time to beef up your vocabulary a little bit.

Anxiety said:

Queer?


Sorry

JustErin said:

forget it...

Shorty said:

Anxiety said:

i think you're on point here, but I'd add the caveat that respect is a two way street. the people who are offended by those words can also acknowledge there it is equally important to pay attention to the intent of delivery and to also look at the life of the person who is using the purportedly offensive language.

madartista said:

Oh, I completely agree. Though it's easier for me to make the point you just posted than it is to look at things through the other person's eyes and figure out how I can communicate in a way that will make them want to listen to what I have to say. I'd rather have someone want to hear my thoughts without wincing than to think that I'd won some battle that allowed me my freedom of expression at the price of totally turning someone off to listening to me again. If I feel a certain word is appropriate, I will use it, but I will also be prepared to explain why I felt it was necessary to use that word if need be.

CarrieLee said:

Stymie said:

"common fucking decency"? what? well...I'm offended how dare you! You should know that some people are hurt by the word "fuck" and "shit" You should also know that it's offensive to talk down to people the way you do but you do it all the time....don't you? perhaps we should ALL be a little more sensitive to everyone's feelings about everything. yeah...that's it.

Shorty said:

I talk down to people? Where? When? And why has no one said anything to me about it? In the instances where something I have said something someone found offensive and they let me know, I have apologized.

And the way you talk to people here and always have, you might wanna get the fuck outta here about someone talking down to anyone. Right now you are trying to justify acting assholish to people. Good on you.

JustErin said:

Stymie said:

you're certainly not concerned about my feelings now are you?

Anxiety said:

That makes perfect sense and is grounded both in respect and in you taking responsibility for your words and how you use them. I think where the notion of p.c. speech turns people off is when there is a prescribed list of words that people are told they can never use, or when told that calling some one a "fucking homo" is the equivalent of saying "that's so gay." Context goes a long way and saying that all "bad" words are equally bad completely devalues all language and resigns people to say.."fuck it. you're going to be offended no matter what I say." The only control we have is what we do for ourselves and how we react to what other people do, and sometimes we do need to just let it go.

Shorty said:

That's the one I was looking for!

I'm not so good with these emoticons.

Shorty said:

Being deliberately disrespectful is hilarious and nto only that, your God-given right. Got it.

I have thought about your comment every once in a while, and I think you're missing the point. Abuse is abuse, no matter what form it comes in, and in many cases, emotional abuse (name calling, hate speech, etc.) does much more damage than a broken arm or a black eye can ever do - plus physical abuse, for the most part, heals after a short time.

Calling someone by an anti-semitic, homophobic, racist, or misogynist slur, especially if they're young, CAN CAUSE PERMANENT EMOTIONAL SCARRING. This leads to people not having self-esteem, which can lead to self-destructive behavior and perhaps even crime (either cuz they get messed up in the head, or because they decide they're just not gonna take it anymore, and assault the person calling them whatever name. A friend I worked with in writing a book said it like this (this came from an essay that was about the school massacre that happened in Santee, CA in '99 or '00":

"When the words that kids use are meant to hurt, it usually enters the brain of a child and implants itself like a cancer. It weighs them down and it lingers. I told them I could never talk about the bullies that tore into me, because to do so would mean that I would have to repeat the words and I could not say it myself about myself. Talk is like chemo for the hate."

Now do you get the picture?

Shorty said:

Shorty said:

You can probably say whatever you want--I would imagine with your personality your words tend to get ignored anyways.

Anxiety said:

Okay....I love her!

eaglebear4839 said:

Thanx for the explaination, but I ALWAYS got the picture. I NEVER advocated calling any one any kind of slur. I admitted that on occasion I will call someone I know who is not mentally challenged in any way a "retard".
One thing you just said struck me as odd...you said "abuse is abuse" but then you go on to say "in many cases, emotional abuse (name calling, hate speech, etc.) does much more damage than a broken arm or a black eye can ever do - plus physical abuse, for the most part, heals after a short time."
what? You just said abuse is abuse. To me they both do equal damage, on top of that you brush off physical abuse by saying it heals with time...for the most part :huh: Physical abuse causes "PERMANENT EMOTIONAL SCARRING" too, but that's all for another thread. This was about someone (probably a kid) posting some stupid comment on youtube, and all I was saying was let's try and keep things in perspective.

Imago said:

oh my poor

PleasurePrinciple said:

Your hearts desire? ..... or possibly (but less likely) your worst nightmare

ehuffnsd wrote:
as some who couldn't pass for straight if my life depended on it, and was made fun of my entire childhood for being a sissy or a fag i can tell you that life isn't as easy as you imagine it for every gay person, because believe it or not some of cannot hide the fact that we are gay.

in finances it's better to be in the black than in the red.

also if you look up the roots of words you'd realize alot of negative traits are signed to things that are uncommon for instance, sinister comes for the latin word for left handed.
[Edited 8/5/08 22:28pm]

*****

I'm sorry that you had such bad experiences as a result of your femininity. However, I must point out to you that I never said anything about life being easy for anyone. You perhaps ascribed that thought to me because of your own feelings? My post had to do with sexuality not being as obvious as skin tone. For example, it is highly unlikely that you will ever be pulled over due to your sexuality. As a civil rights worker, I have never come accross a case where a person had to check off a box indicating their sexuality, and hence, sight unseen, had their mortgage application denied.

My original post talked about the INTENT of the words being used. You wrote that in finances being in the black was considered positive (Perhaps in an effort to disprove or water down my point?) Again, my original post had to do with intent. When considering a potential partner, to be told they are "too black" means something totally different. Black is being used in a derrogatory manner.

Since you made mention that black means something positive in finances, consider the following:

"Black Friday" is the name which the Philadelphia Police Department has given to the Friday following Thanksgiving Day. It is not a term of endearment to them. "Black Friday" officially opens the Christmas shopping season in center city, and it usually brings massive traffic jams and over-crowded sidewalks as the downtown stores are mobbed from opening to closing.[7] Let us not forget Black Monday, Black Tuesday and Black Thursday, the worst stockmarket days in the history of America.

As for the lefties, lefties were at one time considered to have suffered cerebral damage, and hence started using their left hands primarily. I always thought they looked odd writing with their left hands, but I never noticed my husband was "ambidextrous" until we married. I like the fact that he can use both hands, and I have 2 kids to prove it.

As for suprmans comment about my statement to Eaglebear being able to choose to reveal his sexuality, Suprman, you really should scroll up and read with understanding. Eaglebear made reference to an advantage he doesn't have because his sexuality isn't as obvious. Whether you like it or not, there are many homosexual people who can conceal their sexuality by not tweezing or wearing purple. If this wasn't the case, why do people need to "come out of the closet?" As a matter of fact, even effiminate men often cannot be picked out of a mob at one glance without deep concentration or that infamouse "gheydar" I keep hearing about. Say what you will, but the presence of persons of color is far more obvious, and we need not alter our appearance to be obvious. There is no ignorance involved to acknowledge that.