*****

It is interesting that you mention the whole thing as being hurtful when folks say stuff like "oh, that's so gay". Gay is not a bad word unless used a certain way. Let me offer you a parallel. Black is not a bad word unless used in a certain way. Dark skinned persons are referred to as black. And so is everything that is considered dirty or negative...black market, black listed, black face and black balled. All of the villians wear black. Black is the color predominantly used to denote evil and uncleanliness. The list is eternal and deeply engrained into our society.

Someone outside of the "black" race will say its no big deal. (This is one of the reasons some have made the decision to refer to themselves as African Americans.) Do you find need to pause when somebody says that something is all black and dirty, or its not nice because it is too dark? Probably not, it likly never crossed your mind. Also, I will tell you that I dont care what race a person is, use of the "N" word or anything derrogatory should never be accepted. Its either acceptable or it isn't.

And dont fool yourself, my non-white skin does not deter people from saying offensive stuff in my presence. As a matter of fact, it compels stupid people to reveal themselves. To my knowledge, skin color has failed to stop an entire country from enslaving persons and then following up with horribly oppresive, institutionalized racism.

Wearing a rainbow shirt will offer you no protection, you are not special. If you feel threatened, you can just take off your shirt. Honestly, I dont think the comparison of your sexuality to persons of another race should have been offered in this context considering you can choose whether or not to reveal your sexuality depending upon the circumstances with which you are presented.
[Edited 8/5/08 19:53pm]
[Edited 8/5/08 19:53pm]

I agree Miguel. I also agree with part of StillGotit's post. No one really cares unless it is something that matters to them.

Stymie said:

Thanks love.

Ivy, you know me. I'm not trying to say that one struggle is any less or more than the other one, just different. There are some commonalities. That is all I'm saying.

I agree Miguel. I also agree with part of StillGotit's post. No one really cares unless it is something that matters to them.

I agree Miguel. I also agree with part of StillGotit's post. No one really cares unless it is something that matters to them.

Stymie said:

i think that's true, and i think it's more human nature than it is a matter of finger-pointing criticism. we are all that way. it's easy for us to sympathize if someone we know is on the receiving end of some kind of oppression, but it doesn't become something that we actively rally against unless it happens to us.

and when you think about it, it's unavoidable. i'm not just talking about racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. - i'm talking about anything that can happen to a person which can be fought against or advocated. any disease, any consequence which puts you in a situation where your experience can be given support or in which you can provide support because you've been there. it's hard for someone who hasn't dealt with, say, breast cancer, to be at the forefront of speaking out about it, whereas someone who's experienced it or who has lost (or almost lost) a loved one to it has tons of insight and emotion and feels an urgency that nobody else can understand.

so in some ways, sure, i can get how my struggle isn't necessarily going to be someone else's, but chances are their struggle isn't mine either. the best thing that can be done is to find the commonalities that prevent us from being part of each other's problem, i guess.

none of that made sense, did it?

Stymie said:

i think that's true, and i think it's more human nature than it is a matter of finger-pointing criticism. we are all that way. it's easy for us to sympathize if someone we know is on the receiving end of some kind of oppression, but it doesn't become something that we actively rally against unless it happens to us.

and when you think about it, it's unavoidable. i'm not just talking about racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. - i'm talking about anything that can happen to a person which can be fought against or advocated. any disease, any consequence which puts you in a situation where your experience can be given support or in which you can provide support because you've been there. it's hard for someone who hasn't dealt with, say, breast cancer, to be at the forefront of speaking out about it, whereas someone who's experienced it or who has lost (or almost lost) a loved one to it has tons of insight and emotion and feels an urgency that nobody else can understand.

so in some ways, sure, i can get how my struggle isn't necessarily going to be someone else's, but chances are their struggle isn't mine either. the best thing that can be done is to find the commonalities that prevent us from being part of each other's problem, i guess.

none of that made sense, did it?

Stymie said:

i think that's true, and i think it's more human nature than it is a matter of finger-pointing criticism. we are all that way. it's easy for us to sympathize if someone we know is on the receiving end of some kind of oppression, but it doesn't become something that we actively rally against unless it happens to us.

and when you think about it, it's unavoidable. i'm not just talking about racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. - i'm talking about anything that can happen to a person which can be fought against or advocated. any disease, any consequence which puts you in a situation where your experience can be given support or in which you can provide support because you've been there. it's hard for someone who hasn't dealt with, say, breast cancer, to be at the forefront of speaking out about it, whereas someone who's experienced it or who has lost (or almost lost) a loved one to it has tons of insight and emotion and feels an urgency that nobody else can understand.

so in some ways, sure, i can get how my struggle isn't necessarily going to be someone else's, but chances are their struggle isn't mine either. the best thing that can be done is to find the commonalities that prevent us from being part of each other's problem, i guess.

none of that made sense, did it?

Anxiety said:

It absolutely makes sense. What doesn't make sense, and never has to me, is why some people seem to go out of their way to be assholes. Even in the instances where I've been perceived to be one, if I thought I hurt someone or overstepped my bounds it's always been more important to me to apologize or mend fences than to stand my ground.

Anxiety said:

It absolutely makes sense. What doesn't make sense, and never has to me, is why some people seem to go out of their way to be assholes. Even in the instances where I've been perceived to be one, if I thought I hurt someone or overstepped my bounds it's always been more important to me to apologize or mend fences than to stand my ground.

violator said:

i think the whole world should come together to fight assholism.

but then again, you know there's some weird fetish group out there who think assholes are beautiful (i'm talking about euphemistically, not literally/biologically - that's another thread) and would advocate for asshole rights.

oh my god. ASSHOLE RIGHTS. that's a totally hot t-shirt phrase.

Anxiety said:

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

"the first asshole or assholes to fuck with me will be IMMEDIATELY ELIMINATED!!!"

i actually uttered that phrase a few times over the weekend.

violator said:

Awww...lets make out.

violator said:

i think the whole world should come together to fight assholism.

but then again, you know there's some weird fetish group out there who think assholes are beautiful (i'm talking about euphemistically, not literally/biologically - that's another thread) and would advocate for asshole rights.

oh my god. ASSHOLE RIGHTS. that's a totally hot t-shirt phrase.

*****

It is interesting that you mention the whole thing as being hurtful when folks say stuff like "oh, that's so gay". Gay is not a bad word unless used a certain way. Let me offer you a parallel. Black is not a bad word unless used in a certain way. Dark skinned persons are referred to as black. And so is everything that is considered dirty or negative...black market, black listed, black face and black balled. All of the villians wear black. Black is the color predominantly used to denote evil and uncleanliness. The list is eternal and deeply engrained into our society.

Someone outside of the "black" race will say its no big deal. (This is one of the reasons some have made the decision to refer to themselves as African Americans.) Do you find need to pause when somebody says that something is all black and dirty, or its not nice because it is too dark? Probably not, it likly never crossed your mind. Also, I will tell you that I dont care what race a person is, use of the "N" word or anything derrogatory should never be accepted. Its either acceptable or it isn't.

And dont fool yourself, my non-white skin does not deter people from saying offensive stuff in my presence. As a matter of fact, it compels stupid people to reveal themselves. To my knowledge, skin color has failed to stop an entire country from enslaving persons and then following up with horribly oppresive, institutionalized racism.

Wearing a rainbow shirt will offer you no protection, you are not special. If you feel threatened, you can just take off your shirt. Honestly, I dont think the comparison of your sexuality to persons of another race should have been offered in this context considering you can choose whether or not to reveal your sexuality depending upon the circumstances with which you are presented.
[Edited 8/5/08 19:53pm]
[Edited 8/5/08 19:53pm]

ok...first of all this quote is all messed up.
now...I'm gonna sound like a real insensitive bitch here but...have a tissue! please! I mean really, "it's not fair" boo fuckin' hoo! you know what's not fair? 3 month old babies with broken bones from their abusive parents, 2 year olds getting cancer, taxes, AIDS, Diabetes, War, slavery.... these things are unfair. Let's try and keep things in perspective shall we!
You have every right to be upset by some one's words, just as they have every right to upset you.

eaglebear4839 said:

Volitan said:

A person who is a member of this community and the LBGT family just said he found those words to be hurtful. It almost makes sense that people HERE would turn around and use them in a purposely offensive manner.

This thread is so gay.

this thread is so gay.....

eaglebear4839 said

..... thought I would share this here at the org, not only cuz there's at least several rainbow brothers/sisters (just like the sun, we rise) that have no doubt felt indignant at hearing these phrases, but also to shed a little light to the ones here that may use such slurs. :

Saying "fag", "homo", or "that's so gay", when you're not gay, is just as insulting to a gay person as other slurs about race, gender, religion, etc. You may have heard someone downplay anti-gay slurs as being "no big deal" or "that doesn't mean what you're saying it means..." - but they ARE as big a deal (Blanche!) Maybe even moreso, because you can't always see if someone is gay, like you can with a person of color (though it sure does come in handy to wear your sexual orientation on your sleeve, cuz if they can see it, they are much less likely to say things knowing you're around; but not everyone is obvious, I reiterate.)

It is interesting that you mention the whole thing as being hurtful when folks say stuff like "oh, that's so gay". Gay is not a bad word unless used a certain way. Let me offer you a parallel. Black is not a bad word unless used in a certain way. Dark skinned persons are referred to as black. And so is everything that is considered dirty or negative...black market, black listed, black face and black balled. All of the villians wear black. Black is the color predominantly used to denote evil and uncleanliness. The list is eternal and deeply engrained into our society.

Someone outside of the "black" race will say its no big deal. (This is one of the reasons some have made the decision to refer to themselves as African Americans.) Do you find need to pause when somebody says that something is all black and dirty, or its not nice because it is too dark? Probably not, it likly never crossed your mind. Also, I will tell you that I dont care what race a person is, use of the "N" word or anything derrogatory should never be accepted. Its either acceptable or it isn't.

And dont fool yourself, my non-white skin does not deter people from saying offensive stuff in my presence. As a matter of fact, it compels stupid people to reveal themselves. To my knowledge, skin color has failed to stop an entire country from enslaving persons and then following up with horribly oppresive, institutionalized racism.

Wearing a rainbow shirt will offer you no protection, you are not special. If you feel threatened, you can just take off your shirt. Honestly, I dont think the comparison of your sexuality to persons of another race should have been offered in this context considering you can choose whether or not to reveal your sexuality depending upon the circumstances with which you are presented.
[Edited 8/5/08 19:53pm]
[Edited 8/5/08 19:53pm]

and had a bunch of queens waiting there to WHOOP YOUR IGNORANT ASS (AND THEN FUCK IT!)

eaglebear4839 said:

Please, if someone wants to be offensive they arent going to ask your permission first are they "excuse me sir do you mind if I call you a fag". The fact of the matter is that the majority of straight people dont like gay people whether its because of a pariticular religion they follow or the way their parents brought them up. Thats just a fact of life maybe it will change with time who knows. Im personally so Glad Im straight and dont have to go through any of that shit.
[Edited 8/4/08 18:03pm]

Stymie said:

oh. It's the internet. Big fuckin deal.

I don't use the word 'homo' but I am guilty of saying "that's soo gay"...and quite often. I don't mean it to be hurtful but I guess I have to watch what I say. Just like the time I said "that's retarded" in front of my friend who has a retarded sister. She didn't take offense to it but I felt HORRIBLE.

Is it still hurtful if we don't intend it to be that way? I mean, I think saying that's so gay isn't as bad as calling someone a fucking homo. But what do I know

How ignorant is that? Someone who is effiminate or butch does not have that option.
*****

It is interesting that you mention the whole thing as being hurtful when folks say stuff like "oh, that's so gay". Gay is not a bad word unless used a certain way. Let me offer you a parallel. Black is not a bad word unless used in a certain way. Dark skinned persons are referred to as black. And so is everything that is considered dirty or negative...black market, black listed, black face and black balled. All of the villians wear black. Black is the color predominantly used to denote evil and uncleanliness. The list is eternal and deeply engrained into our society.

Someone outside of the "black" race will say its no big deal. (This is one of the reasons some have made the decision to refer to themselves as African Americans.) Do you find need to pause when somebody says that something is all black and dirty, or its not nice because it is too dark? Probably not, it likly never crossed your mind. Also, I will tell you that I dont care what race a person is, use of the "N" word or anything derrogatory should never be accepted. Its either acceptable or it isn't.

And dont fool yourself, my non-white skin does not deter people from saying offensive stuff in my presence. As a matter of fact, it compels stupid people to reveal themselves. To my knowledge, skin color has failed to stop an entire country from enslaving persons and then following up with horribly oppresive, institutionalized racism.

Wearing a rainbow shirt will offer you no protection, you are not special. If you feel threatened, you can just take off your shirt. Honestly, I dont think the comparison of your sexuality to persons of another race should have been offered in this context considering you can choose whether or not to reveal your sexuality depending upon the circumstances with which you are presented.
[Edited 8/5/08 19:53pm]
[Edited 8/5/08 19:53pm]

Shorty said:

Just as you have the right to say whatever you want, people have the right to call you on it. Does it make me sensitive because I have a disabled child and I hate the word "retarded"? Probably. Telling me to get over it? Takng joy in the fact it pisses people off? Sad to me but I'm not going to try and squash people saying what they want. It's obvious people don't give a fuck.

CarrieLee said:

Yes it is still offensive even if you don't intend it that way.
It's not your intent, it is the message received by those who receive it.
saying that's so gay is just as bad as calling someone a fucking homo.
I guess you aren't gay, and unable to empathize with others but either is hurtful whether you acknowledge it or not.
IF I slap you but don't intend it to hurt, does that mean you don't feel it?