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Determinists have no free will A true determinist believes he/she has no free will. This one thought colors everything and permits him/her to just react, perhaps not as low as animal, but with no motivation to step up to the plate of choice. It is psychological suicide.
But look what happens when you believe you have free will--this piece of information then figures into all of your thinking, and you behave quite differently than the determinist. Despite what your body tells you, you override it's impulses and quit smoking. You make hard choices and take responsibility for them. You don't just react--you act on the assumption that you have a choice, and therefore you choose more often, whereas the determinist cannot make this assumption. This is the one time when believing something makes it come true, even for an atheist. Because the belief itself is quite literally what causes the phenomenon to come into existence in the first place. I'm working on a better formulation (I've left out the implicit feedback loop of self-belief this time), but I call this "Teller's theorem" because I've never seen it published anywhere in reference to the origin of free will. Thoughts? Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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teller said: A true determinist believes he/she has no free will.
yeah? wanna make somethin' of it? 
but seriously, i think a determinist knows this. otherwise, they wouldn't go to the trouble of calling themselves one and listening to the barrage of pollyanas going on and on about "how can you believe that you don't have free will? i just can't accept that. you're the master of your destiny." or what have you... blah blah blah | |
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AaronForever said: teller said: A true determinist believes he/she has no free will.
yeah? wanna make somethin' of it?
but seriously, i think a determinist knows this. otherwise, they wouldn't go to the trouble of calling themselves one and listening to the barrage of pollyanas going on and on about "how can you believe that you don't have free will? i just can't accept that. you're the master of your destiny." or what have you... blah blah blah 
i guess you had no choice but to post that post, eh? Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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teller said: i guess you had no choice but to post that post, eh? obviously | |
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AaronForever said: teller said: i guess you had no choice but to post that post, eh? obviously Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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teller said: AaronForever said: teller said: i guess you had no choice but to post that post, eh? obviously i've lost nothing | |
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AaronForever said: i've lost nothing well, we're all born without free will, but somewhere along the line we have the potential to achieve it, but not you...you dropped the ball!Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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teller said: AaronForever said: i've lost nothing well, we're all born without free will, but somewhere along the line we have the potential to achieve it, but not you...you dropped the ball!says who? i don't believe in the tooth fairy, god, or free will. it's all nusery rhymes and fairy tales!  | |
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ha ha | |
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AaronForever said: says who?
why should i listen to you? you have no free will, you're just reacting helplessly...move on...i don't believe in the tooth fairy, god, or free will. it's all nusery rhymes and fairy tales! Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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teller said: A true determinist believes he/she has no free will. This one thought colors everything and permits him/her to just react, perhaps not as low as animal, but with no motivation to step up to the plate of choice. It is psychological suicide.
But look what happens when you believe you have free will--this piece of information then figures into all of your thinking, and you behave quite differently than the determinist. Despite what your body tells you, you override it's impulses and quit smoking. You make hard choices and take responsibility for them. You don't just react--you act on the assumption that you have a choice, and therefore you choose more often, whereas the determinist cannot make this assumption. This is the one time when believing something makes it come true, even for an atheist. Because the belief itself is quite literally what causes the phenomenon to come into existence in the first place. I'm working on a better formulation (I've left out the implicit feedback loop of self-belief this time), but I call this "Teller's theorem" because I've never seen it published anywhere in reference to the origin of free will. Thoughts? Free will = freedom. Some people however prefer to be slaves because it's easier, no effort involved. Freedom is never free. One must fight to obtain it and fight continually to maintain it. Free will is freedom of the mind. Ex. Living a lie because it's what is expected of you. Really, it's better for one to actively seek out their own free will, because in the long run it makes life a lot easier and fulfulling. Then again, that just my humble option. "Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!" | |
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SweeTea said: teller said: A true determinist believes he/she has no free will. This one thought colors everything and permits him/her to just react, perhaps not as low as animal, but with no motivation to step up to the plate of choice. It is psychological suicide.
But look what happens when you believe you have free will--this piece of information then figures into all of your thinking, and you behave quite differently than the determinist. Despite what your body tells you, you override it's impulses and quit smoking. You make hard choices and take responsibility for them. You don't just react--you act on the assumption that you have a choice, and therefore you choose more often, whereas the determinist cannot make this assumption. This is the one time when believing something makes it come true, even for an atheist. Because the belief itself is quite literally what causes the phenomenon to come into existence in the first place. I'm working on a better formulation (I've left out the implicit feedback loop of self-belief this time), but I call this "Teller's theorem" because I've never seen it published anywhere in reference to the origin of free will. Thoughts? Free will = freedom. Some people however prefer to be slaves because it's easier, no effort involved. Freedom is never free. One must fight to obtain it and fight continually to maintain it. Free will is freedom of the mind. Ex. Living a lie because it's what is expected of you. Really, it's better for one to actively seek out their own free will, because in the long run it makes life a lot easier and fulfulling. Then again, that just my humble option. And it's my opinion that we should face the realities of the world instead of constructing some ideals about freedom, destiny, etc. to make ourselves feel like we have a purpose and to keep us from getting depressed that there is no answer to the question of life. | |
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I was determined 2 stay away from this thread...alas... |
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moderatorAaronForever said: And it's my opinion that we should face the realities of the world... "Should" implies "can." According to you we have no choice, so there's no "should."Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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