AlexdeParis said:

there is a lot i liked about the batman movie and i have fond memories of it. i think my biggest problem with it was that it felt too compromised...like WB wanted to let tim burton BE tim burton with his direction, but not enough to forget that this was a franchise first and his creative vision second. or third. i think when the first burton batman movie did so well, they gave him more creative clout for the second film. some say that was a mistake, but i think it was an improvement. it felt way less compromised and way more like a burton movie...which is cartoony to begin with, so it fit.

I guess I have to take a stand for the majority here and say that 'Batman Begins' blows every other Batman movie out of the water. I don't know how often I have seen this movie. Something draws me back to it all the time. Funny thing is, I have seen it so often that I find something new that bugs me each time. Some of the one-liners are stupid. Comm. Gordon in the tumbler is stupid. The stealth mode of the tumbler is STUPID. The water vaporizing weapon is crap. In a lesser movie all these things would annoy the crap out of me, but the overall style, the story, the actors, everything else is dead on perfect for me.

calldapplwondery83 said:

and i'm gonna co-sign to these sentiments here too. I also think that the reason why so many folks had a problem with Batman Begins is cuz there have been a few different "eras" to the Batman story. In my opinion, Batman was never meant to be whimsical or have too much humour in it. he is meant to be dark. he is meant to be a little moody. Maybe it's ok for an X-Men film or even a Superman film (which I also thought was great) to be whimsical or super-hero OTT. Bats is not meant to have that.
Batman 3 and 4 from the 90s were disasters cuz they were way too whimsical and "fun".
I love Nolan's idea of Batman and for me, it works better than Burton's as well.

Milty said:

PREACH THAT SH!T!!!!

For me, Nolan's version is THE version, similar to Frank Miller's - a dark avenger of the night. A hero who witnessed his parents murder is not supposed to be fun & whimsical.

uPtoWnNY said:

plus, it's almost real. the idea of a super powered human is totally different to the idea of a normal guy in a scary costume cuz mostly all the characters in the Batman story have no powers or special abilities. i wanna see an OTT Superman story or an OTT X-Men film. Not Bats. That shit has to be real.
it's almost as if the Batman story is its own universe unto itself.

Milty said:

I do like the Burton Batmans. But I also think they are just that, comic movies. Nolan and his people knew how to take it a little further. Some of the "fun" might have been lost, but I think that's just fine. In fact, 'Batman Begins' failed when they wanted to infuse a little fun and comic elements. From what I read about 'The Dark Knight', it will take all those psychological and moral aspects many steps further.

calldapplwondery83 said:

i haven't looked forward to a film like this in years.

Milty said:

Hell yeah. I'm going to see this with my comic-book-geek buddies, hopefully on IMAX. We haven't been this excited about a film since 'Revenge of the Sith' & the first two Spidey & X-Men films. It's an event film.

Nolan's genius is a given, and I loved Batman Begins. It was made almost a generation after Burton's movie, which, in my view, bridges the gap between the campiness of the TV shows (both live-action and Superfriends) and the intended vision of the character. The target audience for the 1989 movie was the teens and young adults raised on the Adam West and cartoon versions of the character in the 70's and 80's. It happened to be around that time that I first read Miller's treatment, which is transcendent.

So the '89 version was more self-aware than we give it credit for and wasn't as campy as some made it out to be, But Batman Begins, at least in my view, takes its cue from Batman Begins, eliminates the whimsy and parody, and focuses on the guts of the story. I'm looking forward to it more than any other "summer" movie.

And now, a word of appreciation for the grandaddy of all comic book movies, and still my favorite comic book movie and character. . .



Without it, perhaps no comic book blockbusters ever get greenlighted.

I'm no expert on comic book movies or comics in generel, so take my opinion for what it's worth, but I never liked the Superman films. Or the character. I love the 90s TV show, though. But that's because I'm a helpless romantic and mainly for Teri Hatcher anyway.

Milty said:

The only stuff I didn't like from Batman Begins were the over the top elements, like the stupid tumbler and the silly sealed off area. I want a Batman that could be just any guy in a suit, no silly toys etc.

calldapplwondery83 said:

No issue with me. Most comic book fans would actually agree with you.

Most fanboys and fangirls hate Superman, even though, but for the success of the character, comics would likely not have been as successful as they became.

And people are increasingly split on the movie, though I loved it as a kid.

And Teri Hatcher was a big reason I loved Lois and Clark backinaday.

uPtoWnNY said:

He dresses up in tights like a bat to prey on the superstitions of bad guys. The concept is inherently whimsical IMO. His costume is supposed to be dark and scary, but his sidekick is a little boy with the brightest, most garish costume ever.

AlexdeParis said:

i dont see anything whimsical about a guy in tights. i see it as crazy. as for Robin, well that may have been the point. maybe he was supposed to bring some "lightness" to the character of Batman. Even the name of Robin, to me, denotes something aimed at a lighter or even younger audience or fare.

AlexdeParis said:

I'm with ya'll. LOVED the 89 batman and its first sequel.

But I dig the direction of the newer series as well. I'm happy as long as Batman doesn't involve Ah-nold or anti Shark spray. :shudders:

I actually find batman to be pretty damn dark when compared to other series. Maybe sometimes to a fault. I can see that side of the argument.
I've read Batman's (Batmen? ) that just make me sick.

I going to The Dark Knight to see what they do with my favourite Batman villian, Harvey Dent/Two Face, played by Aaron Eckhart.

uPtoWnNY said:

even frank miller's version of batman has more than a fair share of satire and dark humor.

Milty said:

and that's why we love you.

Anxiety said:

Superman as a co-opted tool of the military industrial complex is exhibit A.

Milty said:

Robin was created to give young boys a character to identify with.

Milty said:

That was indeed one of the points to having Robin. Of course, Batwoman and Bat-Girl were then created to quell the claims of Batman and Robin being homosexual. As for the other point, we'll have to agree to disagree. The very idea that someone wants to strike fear into the hearts of criminals while wearing tights definitely qualifies as whimsical in my book. IRL, I'm not sure the Joker would elicit as many laughs as Batman in that get-up. Not scary. Thankfully, comics don't have to be like real life. It has always been part of their charm.

God man. My music tastes may be shit, but boy are some of you guys geeky LOL. Seems even some people with cool music tastes can be geeky LOL


Comic book movies suck. The formula is dead now.

Thank fuck for "rambo" this year. Bring back dumb action films, as most comic book adaptations suck. At least the arnie flicks had a sense of humour often. These super hero movies take themselves so seriously LOL

namepeace said:

and if anyone even TRIES to tell me that the sequel to "dark knight returns" was anything resembling "gritty realism", i've got a pile of banana skins you can smoke free of charge.
[Edited 7/2/08 19:00pm]

Anxiety said:

That's hilarious! I didn't even mess with that sequel. Seriously, that Supes/Batman storyline was just a paean, and perhaps, even a knock, on fanboy hatred of Kal-El. It's almost as if he said, "okay, you think Supes is an establishment dope and Batman is the anti-establishment writ large? I'm going to take that concept and inject it with HGH."

namepeace said:

i felt sorry for superman in that story. i kinda sympathized with him and thought batman was kind of an old hardass.

AlexdeParis said:

well i think the tights thing is pretty much a moot point. we all just think he wears tights cuz that's what we're used to seeing him in. In Nolaniverse, he's clearly wearing um...not tights.

Anxiety said:

thats' what i love about Bats. he's just a crabby old thing, ain't he?
[Edited 7/2/08 19:22pm]

Anxiety said:

You know, the way that showdown was written, they almost parodied themselves, but Supes had it coming!

Anxiety said:

Since comic book movies started gaining popularity, I've been pining for a Dr Strange movie!

Johnny Depp would DEFINITELY make a great Dr Strange!

...and I've said it before...I'm waiting to see HER;



as HER;