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PrintableFlo6 said: Excuse me [and this is in response to Meow too]: you don't need to learn these things, you just do them. All you need in order to 'know' how to cook is 1] to be hungry and 2] to have no one around to cook for you or no one willing to do so. And then the cooking 'skills' will kick in very quickly, trust me.
Same thing for cleaning and baby-bathing and everything else in the house. That men have not 'learned' to do these things and may not be 'skilled' enough are just excuses. heartbeatocean said: Another point is, it's a nice idea to have the husbands do half of the housework. But some certain ones I know, grew up in a household where their mama did everything for them. They barely know how to make a bed or peel a potato. Where is the skill set?  They may be excuses but the reality is there is "fog factor" where the guys just don't see the dishes to be washed, or the dirt on the floor. And no one has to learn to cook if they can order pizza every night. | |
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heartbeatocean said: Flo6 said: Excuse me [and this is in response to Meow too]: you don't need to learn these things, you just do them. All you need in order to 'know' how to cook is 1] to be hungry and 2] to have no one around to cook for you or no one willing to do so. And then the cooking 'skills' will kick in very quickly, trust me.
Same thing for cleaning and baby-bathing and everything else in the house. That men have not 'learned' to do these things and may not be 'skilled' enough are just excuses. They may be excuses but the reality is there is "fog factor" where the guys just don't see the dishes to be washed, or the dirt on the floor. And no one has to learn to cook if they can order pizza every night. That fog factor can be learned 
I had to join them instead of beat them  | |
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ZombieKitten said: heartbeatocean said: They may be excuses but the reality is there is "fog factor" where the guys just don't see the dishes to be washed, or the dirt on the floor. And no one has to learn to cook if they can order pizza every night. That fog factor can be learned
I had to join them instead of beat them I have a pretty high fog factor myself, but at least I know how to peel a potato! (I had to teach my boyfriend this skill) | |
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heartbeatocean said: ZombieKitten said: That fog factor can be learned
I had to join them instead of beat them I have a pretty high fog factor myself, but at least I know how to peel a potato! (I had to teach my boyfriend this skill)I told him I HATE peeling potatoes and washing lettuce, if he does those things for me, I will prepare potato dishes or salads  | |
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ZombieKitten said: heartbeatocean said: I have a pretty high fog factor myself, but at least I know how to peel a potato! (I had to teach my boyfriend this skill)I told him I HATE peeling potatoes and washing lettuce, if he does those things for me, I will prepare potato dishes or salads That's so funny. Because the other skill I had to teach my boyfriend was washing lettuce! He just took the whole head and sort of dabbed it in the bowl of water. I said, no, you have to take each leaf and wash it separately. | |
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heartbeatocean said: ZombieKitten said: I told him I HATE peeling potatoes and washing lettuce, if he does those things for me, I will prepare potato dishes or salads That's so funny. Because the other skill I had to teach my boyfriend was washing lettuce! He just took the whole head and sort of dabbed it in the bowl of water. I said, no, you have to take each leaf and wash it separately.  you sound just like him  | |
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Once you find a friggen BUG in between two of the lettuce leaves, you learn darn quickly that you have to wash each one.  | |
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Cinnie said: Once you find a friggen BUG in between two of the lettuce leaves, you learn darn quickly that you have to wash each one.
what's a little bug! (unless you're vegetarian ) | |
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ZombieKitten said: Cinnie said: Once you find a friggen BUG in between two of the lettuce leaves, you learn darn quickly that you have to wash each one.
what's a little bug! (unless you're vegetarian ) | |
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Exactly, let them learn some 'life lessons' by themselves! 
Cinnie said: Once you find a friggen BUG in between two of the lettuce leaves, you learn darn quickly that you have to wash each one. | |
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Sure, but if you let the dishes pile up, they will soon start smelling them, and that may be more efficient in getting them to wash them than their mere sight. Try it! 
As for ordering pizzas, well let them order pizzas 7/week, 365/year if it's all they are ready to do to feed themselves. It's harsh treatment, I know, but I believe in some cases some drastic measures are called for:).. heartbeatocean said: Flo6 said: Excuse me [and this is in response to Meow too]: you don't need to learn these things, you just do them. All you need in order to 'know' how to cook is 1] to be hungry and 2] to have no one around to cook for you or no one willing to do so. And then the cooking 'skills' will kick in very quickly, trust me.
Same thing for cleaning and baby-bathing and everything else in the house. That men have not 'learned' to do these things and may not be 'skilled' enough are just excuses. They may be excuses but the reality is there is "fog factor" where the guys just don't see the dishes to be washed, or the dirt on the floor. And no one has to learn to cook if they can order pizza every night. | |
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ZombieKitten said: meow85 said: That sounds like fishy statistics to me. Sampling only 100 surveys to the population is poor research, and taking the answers from the mere 25 who bothered to respond does not a conclusive anything make.
It says 66% of respondents said the situation destroyed their marriage, and 75% wished they were something other than the breadwinner. But guess what? 66% of 25 is only 16 people! And 75% of that is only 19 people! So 16 marriages were ruined out of a nation of millions. Hardly proof that women being the primary breadwinner of their family is destructive. NEXT! that is what I was going to mention too
those other 75% did not have the time to answer I'll bet. I know a couple where she works long hours and he does EVERYTHING else. He is a supersmart guy, and is really one of the only people I know where what he does, doesn't define who he is. In that relationship he has taken charge and reined in the family finances and spending, and they are moving forwards in a way they never did when it was double income no kids. She is very happy that she never has to do grocery shopping (I would be too  ) and swears if she had had to stay home, she would have killed herself. That sounds like my parents.
I had a stay at home Dad, and my Mom was the sole provider. My dad loved to clean, and my mom hated cooking and before we were born had never even been around small children. They just thought it more practical to have the one who knew what he was doing stay home with the babies. Worked great for them.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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JustErin said: meow85 said: I live in one of the more liberal provinces in Canada -a country infinitely more left-wing than the U.S. to begin with, and I see it everywhere. Every time a woman says she doesn't want children people look at her as if she's got three heads and demand to know why. No one ever asks why a person might want to have kids, so why else would they ask why a person wouldn't want to unless it was seen as weird? I live in Ontario and I've lived in Quebec, Manitoba and New Brunswick. I've never seen people respond like you say they do. Before I have my son at 31, I never had anyone say anything, ask me why or look at me weird when I said I had no plans to ever have a child. 
I've seen people respond like that more often than not. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: ZombieKitten said: that is what I was going to mention too
those other 75% did not have the time to answer I'll bet. I know a couple where she works long hours and he does EVERYTHING else. He is a supersmart guy, and is really one of the only people I know where what he does, doesn't define who he is. In that relationship he has taken charge and reined in the family finances and spending, and they are moving forwards in a way they never did when it was double income no kids. She is very happy that she never has to do grocery shopping (I would be too ) and swears if she had had to stay home, she would have killed herself. That sounds like my parents.
I had a stay at home Dad, and my Mom was the sole provider. My dad loved to clean, and my mom hated cooking and before we were born had never even been around small children. They just thought it more practical to have the one who knew what he was doing stay home with the babies. Worked great for them. It's kind of easier when it happens naturally - when the decision is practical and makes sense like that. When both don't know much about kids, or both have similar earning capacity that decision may not be unanimous (it may simply be the more pigheaded that wins the argument!) or giving in to societal norms because you might not be the type that wants to buck the system. | |
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CarrieMpls said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: What is the ratio of men living at home while woman work versus women? That life is much easier for a woman to live than a man considering that men are viewed as the "breadwinners" and women have many avenues which put them in the home whether it be a family or their hot looks. It's acceptable and expected for women to rely on men but not the other way around. Not generally at least. Again, you live in a much different world than I do.
Once upon a time it may have been "acceptable and expected" for women to rely on men, but I don't know anyone who feels that way honestly now. And really, that has nothing to do with what I was talkng about. Again, we were talking about fantasies. If a man uses his sexual prowess to whip out a chick in order to live off her we call him a loser. If a woman does this, we call her a wife! 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: CarrieMpls said: Again, you live in a much different world than I do.
Once upon a time it may have been "acceptable and expected" for women to rely on men, but I don't know anyone who feels that way honestly now. And really, that has nothing to do with what I was talkng about. Again, we were talking about fantasies. If a man uses his sexual prowess to whip out a chick in order to live off her we call him a loser. If a woman does this, we call her a wife! She's called a goldigger! |
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meow85 said: JustErin said: I live in Ontario and I've lived in Quebec, Manitoba and New Brunswick. I've never seen people respond like you say they do. Before I have my son at 31, I never had anyone say anything, ask me why or look at me weird when I said I had no plans to ever have a child.
I've seen people respond like that more often than not. Maybe it's a small town kinda thing...? | |
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CarrieMpls said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: If a man uses his sexual prowess to whip out a chick in order to live off her we call him a loser. If a woman does this, we call her a wife! She's called a goldigger! Is that what you call the man? Is there a masculine version of golddigger? I don't even know. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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JustErin said: meow85 said:
I've seen people respond like that more often than not. Maybe it's a small town kinda thing...? You know, I have seen this too and it has been mainly directed, believe it or not, at lesbian friends of mine. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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meow85 said: Genesia said: I don't have kids - and I am not aware of anyone who looks down on me. To the contrary, I know a lot of women with children who envy the freedom their childless friends have. I don't know where you live - but I've never heard of women being treated as "freaks of nature" because they choose not to have children. Maybe you need to move. I live in one of the more liberal provinces in Canada -a country infinitely more left-wing than the U.S. to begin with, and I see it everywhere. Every time a woman says she doesn't want children people look at her as if she's got three heads and demand to know why. No one ever asks why a person might want to have kids, so why else would they ask why a person wouldn't want to unless it was seen as weird? When I lived in Florida I was on a job interview. The owner of the business was also the dr for the office. She was interviewing me and asked if I had children. I said no, she asked when I was planning to start having them. I told her I was never planning on having children. As soon as she heard what I said, she said very loudly "what is wrong with you?". Her response sort of freaked me out. I was used to being asked about children before since I was married, we got the question a lot but her reaction threw me. I told her that there was nothing wrong with me, we just do not want children. Some ppl have the assumption that every woman wants children. It has never been about what society expects of me as a woman. It is our decision and no one else's and I really do not care what others expect me to do with my life. I think ppl should do what works best for their family. That should be the most important thing. Who cares what others think or say. | |
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shanti0608 said: When I lived in Florida I was on a job interview. The owner of the business was also the dr for the office. She was interviewing me and asked if I had children. I said no, she asked when I was planning to start having them. These are illegal questions to ask in a job interview. No one has to answer them, and the business can get into trouble just for asking. | |
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heartbeatocean said: shanti0608 said: When I lived in Florida I was on a job interview. The owner of the business was also the dr for the office. She was interviewing me and asked if I had children. I said no, she asked when I was planning to start having them. These are illegal questions to ask in a job interview. No one has to answer them, and the business can get into trouble just for asking. I know.. I usually remind ppl when they ask me that. They hired me and did not judge me for not wanting them. I talked about it with her a few months later to understand why she asked it. I have nothing to hide so I usually answer the question. Though it is nobodies business really. | |
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JustErin said: meow85 said:
I've seen people respond like that more often than not. Maybe it's a small town kinda thing...?
Try as it might to pretend otherwise, Kelowna's not a small town. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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shanti0608 said: meow85 said: I live in one of the more liberal provinces in Canada -a country infinitely more left-wing than the U.S. to begin with, and I see it everywhere. Every time a woman says she doesn't want children people look at her as if she's got three heads and demand to know why. No one ever asks why a person might want to have kids, so why else would they ask why a person wouldn't want to unless it was seen as weird? When I lived in Florida I was on a job interview. The owner of the business was also the dr for the office. She was interviewing me and asked if I had children. I said no, she asked when I was planning to start having them. I told her I was never planning on having children. As soon as she heard what I said, she said very loudly "what is wrong with you?". Her response sort of freaked me out. I was used to being asked about children before since I was married, we got the question a lot but her reaction threw me. I told her that there was nothing wrong with me, we just do not want children. Some ppl have the assumption that every woman wants children. It has never been about what society expects of me as a woman. It is our decision and no one else's and I really do not care what others expect me to do with my life. I think ppl should do what works best for their family. That should be the most important thing. Who cares what others think or say. I can't believe you were asked that! "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: JustErin said: Maybe it's a small town kinda thing...?
Try as it might to pretend otherwise, Kelowna's not a small town. Compared to the places I have lived (except Moncton) - it's a small town. | |
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meow85 said: shanti0608 said: When I lived in Florida I was on a job interview. The owner of the business was also the dr for the office. She was interviewing me and asked if I had children. I said no, she asked when I was planning to start having them. I told her I was never planning on having children. As soon as she heard what I said, she said very loudly "what is wrong with you?". Her response sort of freaked me out. I was used to being asked about children before since I was married, we got the question a lot but her reaction threw me. I told her that there was nothing wrong with me, we just do not want children. Some ppl have the assumption that every woman wants children. It has never been about what society expects of me as a woman. It is our decision and no one else's and I really do not care what others expect me to do with my life. I think ppl should do what works best for their family. That should be the most important thing. Who cares what others think or say. I can't believe you were asked that! I have been asked that on another interview in Florida as well. It is not uncommon though it is supposed to be against the law to ask. The first person that asked me was a man and I could tell by his reaction he was pleased to know that I was not planning on being out for maternity leave. | |
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