tommyalma said:

Did you say that in another post in this thread? You didn't say it in the post I quoted by you. Farrakhan represents the NOI, and whoever else sees fit to follow him. Not all Black people follow him.

If he made this statement today, he'd be arrested as a terrorist, because this is Osama bin Laden's exact worldview:


"God will destroy America by the hands of Muslims."

source: http://www.tgrigsby.com/v...farrak.htm

P.S. he also posed this head-scratcher: "Who represents Christ: Pope John Paul II or the Honorable Louis Farrakhan?"

IceNine said:

My double-standards? Me brainwashed? If I'm brainwashed, it's because I've believe that oneday, someway, somehow we would get past stupid shit like this and become a people of like minds. The progression of human kind for all men and women equally, and not based on race, religion, or any other vehicle used to separate us. Yes, I'm brainwashed, but you're hopeless.

Supernova said:

Please stop distorting my message, I am simply saying Farrakhan is a racist. I do not believe that all Black people follow him, and in fact some of my links I have cited offer opposing viewpoints from local Black leaders.

Please note that I am only offering proof that Farrakhan is a racist and and mot making blanket statements about Black people in general.

SweeTea said:

You are HOPELESS if you believe that Farrakhan is NOT a racist and you are BLIND to the truth.

What the fuck does it take to make you see that he HATES all white people? Does he have to play Hitler and gas a few million whites???

FUCK, what does it take to get you to open your eyes?

tommyalma said:

Spare me. I haven't distorted ANYTHING. I quoted your exact post and responded. If you implied something you didn't mean, just say so. If you didn't mean that Farrakhan represented all Blacks, just say so. The bulk of your post (above) that I was responding to came off as implying that Farrakhan represents all Blacks when you said: "it's a cheap shot to counter accusations that Louis Farrakhan is a racist with Lincoln quotes. Lincoln doesn't represent all white people,". If you weren't saying that Farrakhan represented all Blacks just say it's not what you meant, IF it's not what you meant. But don't try and act like someone is distorting your exact words when the implication in your post is that Farrakhan represents the entire Black race.

Thecherryloon said:

i'll say it again.

SweeTea said:

Farrakhan is bound and determined to make sure that we don't get along. He doesn't want your kind of progression and loves racial separation.

tommyalma said:

Tommyalma, most of America loves racial separation intentionally or blindly, I see it everyday.

IceNine said:

It's simple sweetie, I watch him speak, I read the "Final Call" and in doing so, I can say he's not wasting his time hating white people. His agenda today is the preservation of the Black Family Structure. But you would know this if you'd only listen to the man or picked up a newspaper other the white-washed bullshit on the stands everyday.

The question is what have YOU done to prove your point. Can you point to any cross-burnings, any church bombings, any hanging of white men, any white child harassed by grown ass black people because that child wanted to go to school, by Mister Farrakan or the NOI?

These are true ACTS and these are the FACTS well known -- these are the THINGS that racist people DO . Once again, you're avoiding the point.

And here I go with the old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me".

A lynch mob, well that shit hurts!

I wonder how many of the 'lincoln was racist' brigade are saying this purely because Prince thinks that's the case?

At the end of the day people of any colour are happier living with their own (they're called neighborhoods).Doesn't that make everyone racist or just plain ant-social?

I thought this was interesting -

FOURTH DOUGLAS DEBATE, SEPT 18, 1858

If there was a necessary conflict between the white man and the negro, I should be for the white man! - Lincoln

note the words 'necessary conflict'.Wouldn't we all side with our own in that situation? whatever colour?

I know this much...the media hates Farrakhan and has misquoted him before, so I'm not sure what to think about him.

One thing that is also not being mentioned here is that Licoln's comments and Farrakhan's comments need to be taken in context with their times.

Lincoln's comments were made in a time where blacks were one generation removed from Africa where they had been rounded up like animals by black tribe leaders, held in holding pens, then sold to white slave traders. Let's all be honest here. Right or wrong, would you not feel slightly intellectually and culturally superior if you were University Educated, living in America, and a prominent political leader? I know in this day and age his statements are not considered PC, but c'mon, let's all be realistic.

Farrakhan's comments were made in current times which I believe is much more damaging and inexcuseable. He is an opportunist who capitalizes on and profits from hatred. He has no financial insentive whatsoever for equal rights and treatment. Like Al and Jesse, without oppression and black victimization they go broke.
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 11:22:25 PST 2002 by 2funkE]

teller said:

Of course the media hates Farrakhan. Farakhan and Al
Sharpton states over and over that the both of them have been misquoted totally out of context.

2funkE said:

Spot on!

Thecherryloon said:

Fortunately most Prince fans are adults and intelligent enough to have known some things about Honest Abe long before 'Avalanche', and never looked to Prince to come to our own conclusions in the first place. Dont let this site fool you.

BTW, one thing I should clarify is that I agree that Lincoln was a racist. I am sure that he believed in his heart that he was intellectually superior to the blacks that had been purchased from Africa and resold into slavery in America. I just think that the perception of blacks at that time compared to now can not be compared.
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 11:35:42 PST 2002 by 2funkE]
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 11:46:57 PST 2002 by 2funkE]

Thecherryloon said:

The cherryloon, I'm not talking about neighborhoods. And, I'm not stating that Abe was a racist because Prince thinks so. And, I wouldn't be on the side of my "color" if there was a neccessary conflict if I don't agree with the conflict.

2funkE said:

Everyday on my way to work, I past the mosque in which Farrakan would do most of his speaking. It's a beautiful facility with a elementary school and a university. They own several businesses and semi's with trailers would be parked in the lot. These things I see with my own eyes. This man has no need to capitalize on hate. He is doing his own thing without the help of "the man" and he is not one bit interested in expending his engeries and efforts on hating white people. So find another scapegoat for the excuse of the racist and demonic ways of some people. Don't try to validiate/cover-up/overlook/ignore or otherwise justify evil deeds perpetrated by white racism, with the words of Mister Farrakan. That's childish and irresponsible. Especially, if you haven't taken the time to know what he's about. Yes, he may have said some racist things in the past, but his words cannot be compared to the deeds done to black people at the hands of racist white people. Comparing and trying to justify Words with Deeds is like comparing apples to oranges. Damn, I though most people had more brains than that! Think for yourself. Don't always believe the things you hear or read. Try feeling the world through another eyes. Don't be so closed-minded. Ask relevant questions. Don't think that just because it's on the news, or printed in the news it's true. Tune into other things around you besides your own small world. Branch out. It's a great big world out there. Racist people love their small little world and they don't want anybody intruding or making waves. Because if they did, they would have to leave the comfort of their small little world and see the rest of this beautiful planet and all its many peoples. This is just too much for their peanut brains to absorb. Anyone imposing on their closed mind is a threat. And because they are incapable of dealing with anything other than what they know in their small little world, they retailiate with blind hate. Just like a child fighting. When children fight, they close their eyes and just start swinging -- not caring who or what they hurt -- even if it's themselves.

Now instead of lynchings, church bombings, and the like, these people have created more clever ways of maintaining their small little world. Divide & conquer, chaos, misinformation, misdirection, crack cocaine. There is nothing they won't do to maintain the comfort of their small little world.

But one day, hopefully soon, people will wake up and smell the doo doo... And if we don't we only have ourselves to blame.

Well, I've allowed this topic to wander wildly off-topic, just to see where it was headed really. At lease people are being civil and expressing opinions, which is nice for a change.

Here's some suggestions:

Forget Lincoln, save it for another thread. This thread isn't about Lincoln. It WAS originally about Farrakhan's speech regarding the sniper attacks. However it seems you all want to discuss whether or not Farrakhan is a racist.

Even if Farrakhan IS a racist (and from some of those quotes posted by tommyalma and others, he probably is or was at some point) I don't think that necessarily discredits all of his other work, opinions and teachings. It's a shame however that no one here (including SweetTea) has actually been able to defend Farrakhan and provide a strong counter argument against those claiming he's a racist. The argument here seems to be, yes he's a racist, yes he hates people with white skin, but he's not all bad. A similar thing could be said of Adolf Hitler - he hated Jews, but he was also a great orator, inspirational leader and did a lot for Germany. However that's a cheap shot, and I'm not in favour of comparing anyone to Hitler because that carries all kind of baggage with it.

Self-proclaimed racists don't have much credibility in the world of politics, and I feel that regardless of the good work he may do for the Black American community and the strong family values he is trying to impart to Black people in America, on the world stage he looks like a bit of a joke. I'm not an American, so I know less than most of you here do on the subject, but despite his racist tendencies I wouldn't entirely dismiss him or his points - some of his writing has been very interesting indeed, and some of his ideas hold great value. At the same time, I wouldn't fancy going on a camping holiday with him either.

SweetTea, the crux of your argument here seems to be the differentiation between thought and deed. Farrakhan may be a racist in thought, but you seem to be arguing that is OK because he isn't lynching anyone or wearing a pointy hat. However I feel that is an illogical and extremist case to make - it merely asserts that some people are "worse" and more racist than Farrakhan. What does that justify? The alternative to NOI isn't wearing a point hat and burning Black churches. There is an alternative to being a racist in "thought alone", and also to being a racist in "deed and thought" - and that is not being racist.

I certainly wouldn't expect anyone here to attempt to justify racist arguments or defend them (it's an unfair task because I'd probably have to remove them anyway for breaking the Prince.org site rules) but do we have anyone willing to discuss what OTHER things Farrakhan believes in and the good things about his idealogies. I'm genuinely interested, and if we work on the assumption "yes, he has said racist things and he is probably a racist" - what ELSE can we say about the man, surely there is more to him that just racism or else he wouldn't have the following he has.

I don't have opinions either way on this, I'm just stirring...

ian said:

Wonderfully stated, Ian!!!

ian said:

Well, here's a letter from Farrakhan to Jude Wanniski (Wanniski is a well-establish politico-economist), to stir the pot, so to speak:

And here's the original link:
http://polyconomics.com/s...cleid=2140

I'm not all that up-to-speed on his past, but he seems calm enough in his recent postings such as these...

Bravo Ian!!!

Much Love,
LoLinex

ian said:

Well, personally, I'm not a Farrakhan supporter, so I wouldn't defend anything he has allegedly said (of the nature that's been posted here), and many things that I've heard straight from his own mouth.

SweetTea has alluded to the fact that he has changed after having cancer, and this is true. But how much he has changed, I have no idea. I have issues with Farrakhan that go even beyond what's been touched upon in this thread, and I do acknowledge that sometimes people are quoted out of context. I'm not saying the people who posted the quotes did (I don't know), but there is no doubt the media has been known to do it.

What's entirely SKEWED here is the comparison to a former president. Farrakhan has NEVER and will NEVER hold such an office, and therefore has not carried such monumental power. Which was my contention when I entered this thread.


I co-sign you 100% there.
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 13:37:07 PST 2002 by Supernova]

ian said:

Maybe my definition of racism and a racist are different from everybody here so I got out my 1400 page Funk & Wagnalls NEW INTERNAIONAL DICTIONARY of the English Language Comprehensive Edition. The word racist is not listed as a word by itself, but as a noun of racism:

racism - An excessive and irrational belief in or advocacy of the superiority of a given group, people, or nation, on racial grounds alone; race hatred. racist n.


Based on what I've heard, seen and read by Minister Farrakan, if one would like to consider him a racist, he has never expressed a hate for white people based on racial grounds alone. If you targeted his hate , it was in response to the evil deeds black people have been suggested to at the hands of evil white men, and not for the simple reason that they are white. If someone based their hate on deeds then he does not fit the definition of a racist as stated above. I hate "terrorists", but does that make my a racist because most of them are Muslim?

SweeTea said:

racist

adj 1: based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks" 2: discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion [syn: antiblack, anti-Semitic, anti-Semite(a)] n : a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others [syn: racialist]


Farrakhan hates ALL white people and has said so, as Elijah Muhammed did in the past... this makes him a RACIST. He is also anti-semitic, as he hates jews as well.

TELLER -- you the man!

BRAVO!!

SweeTea said:

SweetTea, can you define the phrase "GO TO HELL, YOU'RE AN IDIOT!", which you so calmly wrote to me in an orgnote earlier today regarding the Farrakhan issue?

tommyalma said:

Hahahahaahahahahahahaaa!

Damn, I love it when people go behind the scenes and try to be tough when they know that their public arguments hold NO water and are indefensible!

Do what you do, Tommy A!