I guess this question is for another thread.

Thank you for the article!!!

Regardless of his belief's we can't blame the sniper's actions on the NOI. I think the main reason why Nu posted this article is to allow us us to see the other side. Regardless of what some might think we as humans seem to discriminate against the Muslim community especially after 9.11... it's only natural for some. I personally haven't had any problems with the muslim communtiy after that date but I'm surrounded by it. I notice that my own family make horrible comments against Muslims. It's just not right and I was sadden to hear a person of NOI was the sniper. I automatically had sympathy for Muslims because of all the HATE crimes that existesd after 9.11... funny thing is ppl were hateful to ppl that aren't even Muslims or of the same location just based on their skin color.

To the comment "Aint? Don't use a word like "aint" if you want to claim a position of making sense." I personally don't like the word myself, but if you like it or not it is becoming used more and more each day. Maybe you should listen to the person that brought you to this site in the first place. Prince uses this word all the time and I like to think he speaks and writes to claim a position of making sense.

Much Love,
LoLinex

SweeTea said:

The same could be asked of those who claim that Abraham Lincoln was a racist...

(I am not saying that SweeTea is one of those who claim that Abraham Lincoln was a racist, by the way)

IceNine said:

Abraham Lincoln! How did he get in here? But since you asked would you say being a slave owner qualifies one as being a racist? And before you go there -- The Emancipation Proclamation was not intended to free the slaves, but to keep the union together. But this is a totally different subject, and has nothing to do with with the Minister Louis Farrakan. It seems you never really answer any questions only this answer a question with a question type deal. What's up with that? Go back my last question and answer it if you will. What deeds have Mr. Farrakan performed that qualifies him as a racist?

SweeTea, Love how you hold in down!

You go!

LOLI, thank you for your message. Well said.

NuPwrSoul said:

Thanks for posting this article...I wonder why this speech isn't in the mainstream media?

SweeTea said:

http://showcase.netins.ne...ln/faq.htm

"Did Lincoln own slaves?
Regardless of what you have heard, there is no truth to this assertion. Lincoln is sometimes confused with other presidents who did own slaves, such as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson."

http://www.abraham-lincol...asked.html

8. Did the Lincoln's ever own slaves?
Answer No slaves were ever owned by any of the Lincoln Family. They did have hired help.


SO... Lincoln did not own slaves... and he did much to help the cause of slaves.

Farrakhan has made countless racist statements during his public life.

Now... since Lincoln did not own slaves and helped the slaves, who is more racist, Lincoln or Farrakhan?

...
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 10:02:01 PST 2002 by IceNine]

NuPwrSoul said:

What is she holding down, historical inaccuracies?

:LOL:

JamesMarshallHendrix said:

Yes, white people are in power.

IceNine said:

Many Lincoln researchers do acknowledge what would, today, be considered "racist" overtones in Lincoln's early political life. On Oct. 13, 1858, during his famed debates with Judge Stephen A. Douglas, Lincoln spoke to what he considered to be basic black and white racial differences "which, in my [Lincoln's] judgment, will probably forever forbid their [blacks] living together on the footing of perfect equality."

In the same speech, Lincoln states, "I agree with Judge Douglas that he [a black] is not my equal in many respects, certainly not in color — perhaps not in intellectual and moral endowments; but in the right to eat the bread without leave of anybody else which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every other man." In this statement, despite his reference to differences in "intellectual and moral endowments," Lincoln shows his belief that both black and white were entitled to equal rights and protection under the Constitution. (Source: The Founder's Library - Lincoln-Douglas Debates)

IceNine said:

If you want to debate the matter of Abraham Lincoln in another thread, hey go for it. But this thread is about Farrakan. And you still haven't answered the question.


:: to NuPwrSoul

SweeTea said:

I was pointing out that MANY of the more NOI-oriented people on here claim that Lincoln was a racist.

Lincoln did NOT own slaves and made statements that some consider racist.

Farrakhan has made MANY racist statements against white people.

So, tell me... do you think that Farrakhan is not a racist, even though he HAS called all white people "devils" and has repeated the racist drivel spewed by Elija Muhammed?

There is a physical difference between the white and black races which, I believe, will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality! And, inasmuch as they cannot so live while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position, the negroes should be denied everthing!

THE WORDS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN

FOURTH DOUGLAS DEBATE, SEPT 18, 1858

If there was a necessary conflict between the white man and the negro, I should be for the white man!

THE WORDS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN

SPEECH CINCINNATI SEPT 17, 1859

Negroes and whites are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between any other two races!

THE WORDS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN

SPEECH AUG. 14, 1862

There is no difference between hogs and negroes!

THE WORDS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN

SPEECH PEORIA ILL. OCT 16, 1854

All men are created equal, except negroes, foreigners and catholics!

THE WORDS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN

LETTER TO J SPEED AUGUST 24, 1855

It is true that the negro is inferior to the white in the gifts of nature!

THE WORDS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN OCT 1, 1858

IceNine said:

Right. And we can find exact and worse crimes perpetuated by atheists for non-religious reasons, and there are a bunch of idiotic and/or hateful speech and actions by members of every race. Also, some blacks and whites and Christians and Muslims and atheists make bad names for the rest of their respective groups. Ever seen a No Limit video? Ever watch CMT? PTL? MTV? If you believe all members of any such group are bad (such as Farrakhan does with the Jews), you're prejudiced and/or racist.

My point is that Louis Farrakhan is primarily responsible for propagating the teachings of Elijah Mohammed, a man who believes white people are the devil and created monkeys. He spews hate from his mouth and through his teachings.
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 10:13:16 PST 2002 by tommyalma]

AbucahX said:

I believe that TommyAlma can find some CHOICE quotes from Farrakhan and Elijah Muhammed too...

What do you think?

Ice -- check this:


Abraham Lincoln: Hero or Hellion?
by Lyon Gardiner Tyler

The North has become ashamed of the manner in which the South has been treated and it is now pretty unanimous in calling Reconstruction "a dark blot upon the history of the country," but it tries to win over the South to recognizing Lincoln as a national hero by claiming that Lincoln was a friend of the South and that if Lincoln had survived the war, the South would have had no trouble.
This claim is based on mere words -- passages in his messages and reported conversations, but no one of his admirers has been able to produce any real act of kindness done by Lincoln. And words with Lincoln were mere playthings.
As a matter of fact, Lincoln's speeches, addresses, and conversations are scarcely more than a collection of sophisms in which a flourish of words is substituted for the truth. He was a word juggler and tried to fool people instead of convincing them by sound logic.

Hmmm...

IceNine said:

You stated that Abraham Lincoln didn't make any racist statements in one of your earlier post. So I posted this. You can also read the Lincoln and Douglas debates, his many speeches and the many letters he wrote to friends and you can definitely see that he is a racist.

Quotes from Louis Farrakhan

Louis Farrakhan has a talent for provocation that has won him many enemies and vast publicity. Here are some of his pronouncements

Derek Brown
Tuesday July 31, 2001

"White people are potential humans - they haven't evolved yet."
Philadelphia Inquirer, March 2000

"They [the Jews] are the greatest controllers of black minds, black intelligence. They write the scripts - the foolish scripts on television that our people portray. They are the movie moguls that feature us in these silly, degrading, degenerate roles.

"The great recording companies that portray our people in such a filthy and low-rating way, yet they would not allow such a man as Michael Jackson to say one word that they thought would besmirch their reputation, but they put us before the world as clowns and as purveyors of filth. No, I will fight that."
Meet The Press interview, October 1998

"The Jews have been so bad at politics they lost half their population in the Holocaust. They thought they could trust in Hitler, and they helped him get the Third Reich on the road."
Saviours' Day speech, Chicago, February 1998

"Of course, they [the Jews] have a very small number of people but they are the most powerful in the world, they have the power to do good and they have the power to do evil ... Now what do the Jews do best? Well, they have been the best in finance that the world has ever known ...

"They finance a lot of stuff in the world, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they are not good politicians, they are the worst politicians because they don't recognise really their friends and as well their enemies ... "
Saviours' Day speech, Chicago, February 1998

"It seems like being gay or whatever sin you wish to be a part of is okay ... but I have the duty to lift that gay person up to the standard to ask if they want to live the life that God wants them to or live the lifestyle that they want to live."
Boston speech, August 1997

"I believe that for the small numbers of Jewish people in the United States, they exercise a tremendous amount of influence on the affairs of government ...Yes, they exercise extraordinary control, and black people will never be free in this country until they are free of that kind of control ... "
Meet The Press interview, April 1997

"I don't own Hollywood. Who depicted black people? Who writes the books? Who writes the plays, the songs that make us look less than human? Do you mean to tell me that Jews have never done any evil to black people? ...

"Were they not involved in the slave trade? Yes, they were ... and to the extent that they were involved, somebody has to bring them to account. And I believe that has fallen on me."
Interview with New York Amsterdam News, January 1994

---
source: http://www.guardian.co.uk...02,00.html

Wow. Louis Farrakhan, here to save us from the evil slave-trading Jews. What a guy. Wonder how many of those Egyptian (that's in Africa) slave owners (who owned Jewish slaves for generation after generation) are planning on paying reparations?

Plus, blaming the Jews for the Holocaust - is he serious? How can anyone defend such a man?

SweeTea said:

My concern is NOT if he did great things for the slaves, but that he is considered a racist when you DON'T consider Farrakhan to be a racist. Farrakhan has said far more racially inflammatory statements than Lincoln ever did.

Hmmm...

AbucahX said:

I NEVER said that Lincoln did not make any racist statements. In fact, I was comparing him to Farrakhan because of the racist statements of both men.

And it's a cheap shot to counter accusations that Louis Farrakhan is a racist with Lincoln quotes. Lincoln doesn't represent all white people, especially me as my famliy was still in Europe in his time.
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 10:21:34 PST 2002 by tommyalma]

IceNine said:

Have YOU ever seen the man speak? Have YOU ever taken the time to read for YOURSELF a "Final Call" newspaper? Do you have any idea what he's doing now? Or are you basing your assumptions on hearsay and bullshit propaganda?

cnn.com says:
"The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man,"Farrakhan said in a speech last year.

"Murder and lying comes easy for white people." -- 1994 speech.

Source: http://www-cgi.cnn.com/US.../notebook/

I dare you to defend that. Farakhan loves Hitler because they both share a common goal: absolute destruciton of the Jews.

And saying "murder and lying comes easy for white people" isn't racist?

SweeTea said:

I have READ a good amount of RACIST bullshit spewed by HIM and I am NOT brainwashed like you are.

It seems to me that you think that a black man can call white people "potential humans who haven't evolved" and "devils" and all that and not be a racist.

I think that your logic is faulty. If I called a black person any name even REMOTELY close to what Farrakhan calls white people, I would be branded a racist.

Your double-standards are sickening.

tommyalma said:

Nor does Farrakhan represent all Blacks, as you seem to be implying.

Farrakhan was never in the position of power that Lincoln was, so yet again, that comparison is a cheap shot also.

The Farrakhan/Lincoln analogy is nonsense and trivial when it comes down to the fact that one held the position of the highest office in the nation, and the other...

Supernova said:

No, I said Farrakhan represented Elijah Mohammed, the man who said the devil raped blacks to make gorillas.

Here are some more choice quotes from the supposed non-racist Louis Farrakhan:

Before a City College audience in New York, Farrakhan warns: "The white man is our mortal enemy, and we cannot accept him. I will fight to see that vicious beast go down into the late of fire prepared for him from the beginning, that he never rise again to give any innocent black man, woman or child the hell that he has delighted in pouring on us for 400 years."

Source: USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/n...n/mfm6.htm

tommyalma said:

Oh, shit... I guess he isn't a racist after all...

:LOL:

"German Jews financed Hitler right here in America… Little Jews [were] being turned into soap while big Jews washed themselves with it."

source: http://www.adl.org/hate-patrol/noi.asp

Farrakhan says he is the "black Hitler"!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h...466283.stm