Since we're in a posting mood about the sniping case and are alleging the sniper's connections to folk, thought it would be fair to post this too.

From FinalCall.com

National News
Min. Louis Farrakhan addresses sniper arrest
By FinalCall.com News
Oct 26, 2002, 16:30

Farrakhan addresses D.C.-area sniper case
Click here for Audio/Video Webcast (Requires Real Player)

[Editor’s note: The following text is from a press conference by Minister Louis Farrakhan at Mosque Maryam in Chicago. The press conference addressed the Washington, D.C.-area sniper case. Click here to order audio or video tape.]

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, members of the press, community leaders, thank you all for coming.

We have called this press conference to answer some of the many inquiries that we have had over the last few days about John Allen Williams, also known as John Muhammad.

Naturally, we, like most of you, were horrified watching the news of the murder of innocent persons as they were going about their daily affairs. I was mortified and greatly hurt to learn that one of the victims was a Mr. Ken Bridges, whom we have known for nearly 18 years.

I know that I can speak for myself and the members of my family, and all the Muslim members of the Nation, and all Muslims and people of good will everywhere, that we are in sympathy with the victims of this horror. And we are in sympathy with the families of these victims. And we, like you, can only offer them condolences and our deepest sympathy on their loss.

Most of us, like you, were speculating who could this be? I was in Alexandria, Virginia, just last Saturday. And many of those who follow me begged me not to go because this sniper was still on the loose. But I made a commitment and I went. And many of the brothers came to Alexandria, Virginia, and they were in the woods, and they were in the trees, and they were in automobiles, hoping that we could catch whoever this person might be, and arrest that person, and bring him to the authorities.

We were blessed to get in and get out with no hurt or harm. And as we listened to those who were the profilers who said it’s somebody young and somebody White, never would we have believed that it would have turned out to be two Black persons, and certainly not a Muslim.

With the name Muhammad, many Muslims in the country already hurt, already damaged, stigmatized by the horrific events of September 11 and the aftermath of that, now to have a sniper, an alleged suspect named Muhammad, then all Muslims feel the pain again of such stigma attached to the religion of Islam.

We searched our own files. This young man, John Allen Williams, while he was in the armed forces in Ft. Ord, California, began listening to the teachings of Islam as taught by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. And when Ft. Ord was closed, he then moved to Ft. Lewis in Tacoma, Washington, I believe it is, and he visited the Study Group in that area from 1994 and 1995. And in 1997, July 17, he became a registered member of the Nation of Islam.

Sometime thereafter he was in a domestic problem with his wife, and took his children and left the city and the state. Some of our staff were counseling the husband and wife in their domestic problems. And she requested our help in trying to retrieve her children, which we were unable to do. But it appears that after a year, those children were returned to his wife. And she left that area to come to Washington or Maryland where she is a regular member of the Washington mosque.

We lost contact with John Allen Williams, also known as John Muhammad, sometime in the year 1999. But all of those who have known him, both in military service and in the mosque, have never said ugly things about his conduct or behavior.

We have rules and regulations that govern our mosques, and to the best of our knowledge he was in compliance with those rules and those regulations, but only fell into disfavor with us over his domestic situation and the taking of the children and fleeing the state. So he was not in good standing with us until we could get him back and talk to him about his behavior where his wife and his children were concerned. But we never got that chance because we never saw him again.

It is horrific for us to learn that someone who once was a part of our ranks may be involved in something as horrific as this. But I respectfully say to the members of the media and to the American people, Timothy McVeigh confessed that he was a Christian but nobody blames the church for his misconduct. Ninety-five percent of the nearly two million inmates in the prison system in the United States will tell you, if you ask them what is your faith, they will say, I’m Christian. But no one would blame Jesus or their pastor for their behavior that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus. And no where in the teachings of Islam, no where in the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, would we countenance any man taking the lives of innocent human beings. That is against our law. In fact, all of us who are members of the Nation of Islam have been instructed not to carry any weapons—not so much as a penknife—not on our persons and not in our homes. So any member of the Nation that may be found with such, is in violation of our teachings. We do not rely on weapons of war to defend us. We rely on our belief and our faith in Allah (God).

Mr. John Allen Williams, also known as John Muhammad, was never personal security for me. I don’t believe I have ever met him. And if he were attending the Study Group in Tacoma in 1995, I toured this country and I spoke to about 130,000 or more Black men personally about their role in the Million Man March. I spoke to gangs and gang leaders and I told them that if you’re going to be a part of this march, then you must not bring any weapon at all on that Mall. And all of us--the male members of the Nation of Islam and male members of the church and male members of fraternities that we talked to--were all security to keep the peace on that day. And you have to admit that it was the largest gathering in the history of the United States of America and the most peaceful.

Again, I and we grieve for the senseless loss of life. I and we grieve with all the families that lost loved ones for we were touched in grief as well. But we also grieve for John Allen Williams’, also known as John Muhammad’s, first wife and his son and his second wife and their three children who will have to grow up in an environment and live with whatever comes from the trial of these two persons. If they are found guilty, that will affect every member of his family.

In closing, members of his family said, this is not the John that I knew. And this is not the John that we knew. What happened to him, what caused this, remains, at present, to me and to us a mystery. But it’s something that must be probed and it must be found. What turns a person into a cold killer of innocent people--from a family man, a husband, and a father, and a soldier who fought for his country and a soldier who became a sergeant in the infantry where you know he’s trained to kill? And what happens when these men come back from a tour of duty and the circumstances that surround their lives personally and financially and otherwise? So I thank all of you for coming and my brothers and sisters in the community who have come out to show support for us in an hour like this. And so I would open for questions from the media. Anything that you wish to ask of me, I shall try to answer.

Sarah Downey (Newsweek): We were trying to figure out what mosque he attended in Tacoma or the place where he went to the study group?

Minister Louis Farrakhan (MLF): It was not a mosque as such. It was a study group, very small, in Seattle, Washington. But I understand that he first attended study group in northern California when he served as a soldier at Ft. Ord, wherever that is in northern California.

Rob Elgas (NBC-Channel 5): Do you know if he attended the Million Man March? Do you believe he was actually there?

MLF: No, I do not of personal knowledge know that he was there. But if he was affected by my visit in that area calling for Black men to come to Washington, he might very well have been there, but he had no official role as a security person for Louis Farrakhan. Every Black man that was there was entrusted with the responsibility to keep the peace.

Theresa Guitierrez (ABC-Channel 7): Although you just answered it reverend, I was going to ask you if he had a formal role, a security role, in the March, and you just said that he didn’t.

MLF: No ma’am, he did not.

Alita Haytayan (CBS-Channel 2): You said that you had spoken to his family and they said that this is not the man that they remember. Who is the man that they remember?

MLF: No, I did not speak to his family. I saw on the news, which you all have done a terrific job in really bringing this whole drama before the American people and the world. So I think someone spoke to his cousin and his cousin said, this is not the John Muhammad that they knew. And those in the mosque who knew him, those who were with him in the service, they are shocked by this behavior that he’s charged with.

Mary Frances (CLTV News-Channel 10): How much damage do you believe he’s done to the Nation of Islam with his affiliation or supposed affiliation?

MLF: Well, no I think that’s a good question. You know, what appears sometimes to be very negative can oft-times be turned into a positive. At first there is damage. There are Muslims who wear the name Muhammad who are being stigmatized, who are suffering some kind of alienation. Some have had their tires slashed. Some are suffering things because they may be named Muhammad. Or, and as the media has been saying that he’s a member of the Nation or he had some affiliation with the Nation, and (some say) somebody who knows the Nation’s teaching (that) it’s automatic that he would be a sniper, this is ridiculous. The FBI knows us better than most of you and they’ve been watching us very, very, closely for many, many, many years. They know our teachings sometimes better than the ministers who teach it. They know that we are not teaching our people to go out and harm anybody. And if it were in fact a Black-White hate thing, why would he shoot five persons of color--one an Indian and four Blacks and one a child? That does not make sense. And certainly, none of that is our teaching at all. And to say that he sympathized with 9/11, I don’t know where that came from. But if you go back and get my press conference of September 16 (2001) where I had police and fire persons sitting in this mosque, White and Black and Hispanic, we offered our sympathy and our condolences to the firemen that were lost, to the police persons that were lost, to the emergency medical teams that lost their lives and to all the families that lost their lives because that was an attack, not only on the World Trade Center, that was an attack on all of us ,and we would be silly to rejoice over something as ugly and heinous and horrific as 9/11. So he couldn’t be a follower of mine and rejoice over what we never rejoiced over.

Lorenzo Martin (Chicago Standard Newspapers): Do you believe that the national press has been fair in the linkage of Mr. John Williams Muhammad and the teachings of Islam?

MLF: Well, I don’t want to necessarily judge the press. They do their job. There is a natural bias in human beings, and there is, I believe, a tendency to lambaste, malign Islam. You have criminals, people that do horrific things, but we never know their religion. Who was that man that murdered all the nurses? What was his name? (Richard) Speck and (there was Ted) Bundi. What was their religion? John Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, we don’t know what church they attended. It’s not important because religion does not teach their behavior. Their behavior is in aberration. Their behavior is violation. Their behavior is absolutely rebellion toward what God teaches through the mouth of His prophets. And there is so much misunderstanding in the American public about what Islam really is. So much so that you would have Franklin Graham, a respected member of the Christian clergy, and Rev. Fallwell and Rev. Pat Robertson and others taking to the airwaves saying very ugly things about the Prophet Muhammad and ugly things about Islam and the God of Islam, as though Christianity has no spots or blemishes. Or those who claim to be Christians have not done evil and ugly things to members of human family in the name of God.

God is the most bedeviled with people who do their evil in His name and justify their absolute wickedness and say that it is in defense of their faith in God. So God has to do something to clear His own name from the madness of those who claim to work on His behalf.

Juan Carlos Fanjul (WGN-Channel 9): Just wondering, is Mr. Muhammad then still technically a member of the Nation of Islam or has he been kicked out?

MLF: He has not formally been kicked out of the Nation of Islam. But certainly if he’s found guilty of something like this, he would not be considered at all a member of the Nation of Islam. And we would all ask that anyone whose guilty of such be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Karen Mellen (Chicago Tribune): Min. Farrakhan, what is the Nation of Islam’s teaching on military service?

MLF: On military what?

Karen Mellen: Service in the armed forces.

MLF: Most of us would not take part in wars that take the lives of human beings. But we do have Muslims that are in the service. And they try to be good servicemen and women and good Americans. And while we are on that subject, I would add my voice to the voices of all of those today who are demonstrating against war in Iraq.

We do not believe that we should take part in wars that take the lives of human beings. For us, human life is sacred. And the violation of human life is a violation of God, Himself, because He’s the giver of life and He’s the ultimate cause of death. But He doesn’t give us the right to kill innocent people just because we’re displeased or angry or hurt. That is our teaching. So a pre-emptive strike by the government of the United States and the greatest armed force in the world, to us, is aggression. And we would not countenance aggression because God forbids us as Muslims to be aggressive in word or deed, for Allah (God) hates aggression and is not with the aggressor. This is our teaching.

I hope that it would not come to our government making a pre-emptive strike in the name of disarming somebody that has no power to threaten his neighbors or certainly no power to threaten this Nation. And then to learn that North Korea already has such weapons and for our president to use the word when he learned, he said it was troubling and sobering, and I wondered who was drunk.

Now a point of clarification. You know, a person may be a member of the Nation, but when they walk away from us and their duty, they are not considered in good standing with their Nation. They can as they come in of free will, they can leave with the same free will. We have not seen or heard from this brother in three or more years. So it’s not absent without leave. It’s just absent. He is not in good standing with the Nation, But he, himself, would have to renounce his membership in the Nation. But if he’s guilty of this kind of activity, then we would consider removing him from the rolls.

(Question): Minister Farrakhan, so you say he has not renounced. Do you know if he continued practicing Islam after 1999 or if there was any sort of, if he stuck with the religion at all? Or if you have any more details about how he left?

MLF: I can not answer for his personal practice. But if he is guilty of what he’s charged with, that is as far away from the practice as I guess the far planet Pluto is from the Earth and I think it’s 4,600,000,000 miles.

Any other question? This will be the last question.

Niena Drake (FOX News): You mentioned Ken Bridges who you said that there was some known for18 years. Can you say a little bit more about that?

MLF: Ken Bridges worked with the Wellington Group and they were responsible 18, 16 or so years ago, of bringing to the Nation of Islam the program called P.O.W.E.R., People Organized and Working for Economic Rebirth. Ken Bridges was a part of that group and we have known him and we know him to be a very beautiful human being, a very wonderful person. And it grieved us much to hear that his life was lost as a result of these snipers.

I thank you all for your attendance and may Allah (God) bless us all to go through this period. And oh, let me say this to the members of the press. In [1996] at our annual Saviours’ Day convention I gave all of the believers who were present the right to wear the name Muhammad as a son or daughter or child of the father of the Nation of Islam, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. But I made them all take a pledge that that name Muhammad, (which) means one worthy of praise and one praised much, that if we were to wear such name, we should always act in a manner that would bring honor and praise and credit to such name.

His wife attended that convention and she took the name Muhammad. Sometime after that, according to records that I just saw, he went to the court in California I believe or in Washington and had his name legally changed to Muhammad. But certainly if he is guilty of such a charge, it’s certainly is not worthy of praise and it certainly will never be praised much. In fact, it will be condemned. And the person who did these things will live a life of condemnation until God removes them from our planet.

Thank you very much and I greet all of you in peace. As-Salaam Alaikum.

© Copyright 2002 by FinalCall.com

As some people seem to think we are only allowed to express our opinion on the "Honorable Minister" on threads that mention him specifically...here goes...he's an IDIOT.

mediadarling said:

LOL. It aint what you allowed to do but what makes the most sense and keeps discussions on topic. So glad you found the thread, although you have nothing substantive to add.
.
[This message was edited Thu Oct 31 23:55:31 PST 2002 by NuPwrSoul]

NuPwrSoul,
Thanks for posting this!. Don't know if I would have seen it otherwise, as it wasn't carried in the mainstream press.

Whether its this post or "Family Name", some topics always get strong reactions.

Keep it comin', bro

NuPwrSoul said:

I have.he's a bigot and he does his race as much a disservice as any white supremacy group does mine.It's about time intolerance of any race or the promotion of one race over the other was stopped.

it's too small a world, and we're all on it.

Yeah, but what r his thoughts on lesbians changing light bulbs?

Yeah, I think we're all avoiding the REAL issue here, people?? Light bulb changing...tire changing...THOSE are the issues that face the men and women of today.




.oO(Well...the lesbians, anyway )

Remind me again there why Louis Farrakhan is an idiot?

In this speech he seems quite lucid and articulate.

ian said:

As Chuck D said:"don't tell me what you understand, until you hear the man". A lot of people keep telling me what an idiot and a racist MLF is, but without any facts to back it.

I don't have an opinion either way, but I'm curious as to where the animosity comes from.

I agree with Ian and NuPwrSoul.
And I agree with Brother Luis.
After all it was the US Army which educated John Muhammed on the subject of killing, not the Nation of Islam.
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 4:06:06 PST 2002 by soulpower]

NuPwrSoul said:

Aint? Don't use a word like "aint" if you want to claim a position of making sense. And what is Farrakhan doing her but stating the obvious? Don't blame the Muslims? Blame the man? Well, duh! I doubt any reasonable person would blame the sniper's actions on his faith, or ignore that Christianity has many problems of its own, but if your leader feels the need to do his spin doctoring, make his people out to be victimized somehow, he can go right ahead.

mediadarling said:

Three problems here:

• "your leader" - I don't believe anyone in this thread has declared an affiliation with NOI.
  
• "stating the obvious" - true but it was well needed. Look at all the anti-Muslim and "anti-towelhead" (not my words) sentiment flying around in the wake of last year's events. Also as was seen from IceNine's thread yesterday people have been drawing some very tenuous links between NOI, black racist groups, hiphop music, and the sniper attacks.
  
• "be victimized somehow" - I didn't take that impression at all from the speech. What part are you referring to, in particular?
  

ian said:

{*}I'm quite certain nupwrsoul or however he spells it, is a member of the NOI. If he's said so before, it can be brought up in this thread, can it not? If he was not a member, why else would he have posted a leader of that organization's comments in the first place?
{*}People who make anti-Muslim points or draw tenuous links are moronic & unreasonable. As I stated, the religion isn't to blamed or put on trial. Anyone who wants to know what the Islamic faith (or any religion) truly represents can simply read up on it. Some people, perhaps like this sniper in his sympathy for the 9/11 attackers, the terrorists themselves, or even Christians who burn copies of Harry Potter just take religion far too seriously.
{*}As far as the impression he's giving that they're being victimized somehow, that's pretty clear on reading the transcript. Here are a couple spots:

"With the name Muhammad, many Muslims in the country already hurt, already damaged, stigmatized by the horrific events of September 11 and the aftermath of that, now to have a sniper, an alleged suspect named Muhammad, then all Muslims feel the pain again of such stigma attached to the religion of Islam."

(I think there have probably been a few people named Jesus that haven't lived up to the standards set by Christ, don't you?)

Or later he goes on to point out that certain Muslims with that name have their tires slashed or whatever. God-loving people of any faith have always been targeted - look at all the burning crosses here in American history. Or devoutly Catholic gays & lesbians who cannot march in parades or enjoy marriage in the eyes of their faith. Too much of what the guy is saying here just seems overly obvious & unecessary here & kind of like "damage control."

I Respect Louis Farrakhan.

mediadarling said:

And I've said this WHERE?



I posted it because there are several other posts, including one in particular that discuss the alleged links between the sniper and the NOI and the Nation of Gods and Earths (Five Percenters).

I guess you don't read anything unless it is written by people you endorse? Some people don't wish to be so closeminded.
.
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 6:02:27 PST 2002 by NuPwrSoul]

mistermaxxx said:

I can't, because I'm a cracker, so he hates me.

NuPwrSoul said:

Thanks for this post. Mister Farrakhan has taken many Black brothers off the streets and made real men out of them. For that deed alone, he has MY RESPECT.

This race/faith nonsense is tiresome & trivial. Farrakhan is nothing but a bigoted opportunist. I'm going to go complain about the Music Club. Even that is more productive.

SweeTea said:

Plus, he hates white people! If it weren't for him, I'd never know I was the devil!

tommyalma said:

This is really silly. You should do a little research about the man before you make idiotic statements like these. It is obvious you know nothing about the man, he doesn't hate white people, he pro black. Just because he wants to move black people out of their stupor does not mean he hates white people. There's a difference, can't you see this? Take a look around you, it's white men who control this country, and its them who are responsible for the condition of this country because they make the policies. Some of these policies have placed black people at a disadvantage. We have to work three times as hard to optain the American dream that some white people feel is their birthright. Things are much more easier for whites in America than they are for blacks. These are the types of things Mr. Farrakan is against.

Hate is a very strong word. You should be more careful when using it.

SweeTea said:

BINGO!

HATE HATE HATE

Louis Gene Walcott Farrakhan is not a Muslim, nor is his doctrine Islam. Farrakhan is the leader of a black racist cult called "the Nation of Islam," (NOI) founded in Detroit, Michigan in the 1930's. While the group calls its followers Muslims, in reality, they have very little to do with the faith of Islam. Islam believes in the total transcendance of almighty God (called in Arabic, Allaah), the NOI teaches that black people are angelic gods. Islam maintains universal brotherhood, the NOI says that Islam is for blacks only. Islam teaches that prophethood ended with Muhammad ibn Abdullah, more than 1400 years ago. The NOI teaches that Farrakhan's teacher, Elijah Muhammad, is the last prophet. Islam teaches principles of spiritual and moral decorum such prayer, fasting, charity, pilgimage, etc., Elijah Muhammad cast these out or altered them beyond recognition.

Yet, it is an error to oversimplify the issue by denouncing Farrakhan's racist diatribes while playing down Farrakhan's God-is-a-man and Prophet-after-Muhammad beliefs. Racism has very little to do with the issue. Sure, racism is contrary to Islamic principles and Islam rejects it. However, the deviation of Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan are MUCH more serious than racism. It is the sin which Allah DOES NOT forgive. If Farrakhan would leave his man-is-god and prophet-after-Muhammad beliefs, but was still a raving racist, he would be much better off than the other way around! Let me say very clearly, that there is NO ideology on the face of this earth which could be farther from Islam than that of Louis Farrakhan. NONE!

The NOI's origins are found in

(a) two black self-improvement movements that began shortly before World War I: the "Moorish Science Temple of America," founded in 1913 by Timothy Drew, and the "Universal Negro Improvement Association," founded in 1914 by Marcus Garvey.

(b) the NOI was also shaped by a Depression-era con-man, and convicted drugdealer, Wallace Dodd Ford. Upon Ford's 1929 release from California's San Quintin Prison, he moved to Detroit to start a new life. Ford used a number of names, including Wali Farad and Master Fard and claimed to be from Mecca, Arabia. Being that Ford's parentage was a mixture of white and South Pacific Maori, he used his skin color and his prison con skills to pass himself off to blacks as a "mystic" and a "prophet" from the Middle East.

Working as a door-to-door rug salesman by day, Ford blended the ideas of Garvey and Drew along with a smattering of Islam, to form what would later become the Nation of Islam. Among his first students was an unemployed Georgia migrant worker, Elijah Poole, who Ford renamed "Elijah Muhammad." In later years, Ford disappeared and Elijah assumed leadership of the NOI which he held until his death in 1975.

Elijah developed an convoluted belief system based on ideas extracted from everything from Christanity to Masonry to Islam. He elevated Ford's status to that of the Creator of the heavens and earth, and he developed a myth which he dubbed, "Yacub's History." This racist doctrine is still maintained by Louis Farrakhan.

In brief, the doctrine states that the first humans, a race of black people, whom the NOI calls 'the Original Man,' created white people in a genetic experiment 6,000 years ago. Elijah claimed that they (the whites) would rule the world for 6,000 years and then be destroyed at the 'end of their time' by the blacks. He said that 'Judgement Day' means that at the 'end of time' the Gods (i.e., blacks) would destroy the entire white race (devils) and then establish a Paradise (nation) on this earth ruled forever by the blacks (i.e., Gods).

For a number of years, Farrakhan has managed to present himself as a champion for the oppressed masses, this also is a distortion. Like his teacher, Farrakhan has for more than 35 years engaged in hoodwinking blacks out of money in the name of black self improvement. The only self-improvement however, that has taken place has been for Farrakhan's family and their associates.

Additionally, his entire inspiration for the "Million Man March" is based on his alleged, "vision of being swept into a UFO that took him to a larger mothership." While in the UFO, he claims to have spoken to the late Elijah Muhammad before being beamed back to earth. (The Washington Post, Sept. 18, 1995, p. D3).

What many do not realize, is that Farrakhan has repeated this doctrine for more than 35 years! Indeed, Farrakhan's UFO "vision" is an inseparable, doctrinal link to the heretical claims of Elijah Muhammad. Elijah explained that blacks were originally, "moon people" and that the UFO "mother wheel" was piloted by 13 youths who perpetually orbited the earth, waiting to unleash global destruction on whites, while rescuing all blacks. Farrakhan to this day, teaches this same doctrine- his inspiration for the Million Man March. The Million Man March in fact, was planned with the following goals in mind:

(a) To hold it in Washington, and aim for a turnout of one million, so as to surpass the number of attendees at Martin Luther King's 1963 March on Washington, and thereafter be promoted as being greater than Dr. King and Malcolm X.

(b) By being mentioned in the same context with Dr. King, Farrakhan hopes to be remembered likewise as a charismatic, messianic black figure who commands a large and politically significant following among US blacks.

(c) To remove the cloud of suspicion which still surrounds Farrakhan regarding his involvement in Malcolm X's assassination.

(d) Most importantly, Farrakhan has to find a new way to pay for his and his family's ornate palaces in Chicago and Phoenix, his Lexus, Mercedes, Rolls Royce and Lincoln Town Cars, a Mexican villa, a new 77-acre Michigan estate and over $1.5 million dollars in unpaid back taxes. This is the reason he had an $11 registration fee, a $3.99 per minute 900 number for call-in registration (Average call is three minutes), a $700 vendor's fee, (reduced from $1000), and even ads in his newspaper soliciting for "donations" to "help defray the astronomical costs of the march," in exchange for listing the donor's name and city under appropriate categories (Platinum, Gold, etc.): $1000 or more (Platinum), $500 or more (Gold), $100 or more (Silver), $25 or more (Patron) not to mention $2 "special issues" of his 'Final Call' newspaper. Louis. A true high-tech con-man. You want to see Louie's real vison?: $$$.

It is thus impossible for anyone to try to make a distinction between Farrakhan and his UFO inspiration, or "endorse the goals of the march without endorsing Farrakhan," or say that Farrakhan is greater than Malcolm X. Malcolm's greatness was as a result of his renouncement of Elijah's false teachings, and his acceptance of true Islam, factors which Farrakhan has yet to achieve.

My book, exposing the 65-year legacy of the NOI, is scheduled for publication soon, entitled, "The Emperor Has No Clothes." If I can be of further assistance, don't hesitate to contact me.



A. Idris Palmer

http://www.geocities.com/...2/noi.html
[This message was edited Fri Nov 1 7:13:12 PST 2002 by tommyalma]

tommyalma said:

You call this research? This is nothing more than bullshit propaganda.

"Be careful Morris, your horns are showing"

Here to you tommy ::

The teachings of Elijah Muhammed, Farrakhan's idol:

Elijah explained, "The white race is not equal with darker people because the white race was not created by the God of Righteousness. . . . They were made by Yakub, an original Black Man—who is from the Creator. Yakub, the father of the devil, made the white race, a race of devils—enemies of the darker people of the earth. The white race is not made by nature to accept righteousness."

...

The first two thousand years were squandered while the whites lived as naked savages in the caves of Europe, eating their meat raw and without even a knowledge of fire. They tried to "graft" themselves back to black by reverse breeding, but succeeded only in making gorillas (this is the origin of the monkey and gorilla family).[19] Then Moses came to them. He taught them how to wear clothes, use fire, cook their food, and to believe in Allah. The whites rejected Moses, who set a trap and blew up three hundred of them with dynamite,[20] but it was through Moses' efforts that the teaching of civilization gradually seeped into the mind of the white man. Over the centuries, the white man used this knowledge, combined with his innate craftiness and "tricknology," to dominate the world.

..

According to Elijah Muhammad, salvation is achieved by recognizing the true God (the black man) and the true devil (the white man). For the black man, Islam is his religion by nature and righteousness is his natural condition. For the white man, Christianity is his religion by nature, and sinfulness is his natural condition.

Once again, [we recognize that Minister Farrakhan has reinterpreted some of the teachings of Elijah Muhammad to bring a different message, as we shall see shortly. However, since he still promotes Elijah Muhammad as a divine Messenger and as "the Messiah," we must respond to these teachings.
source: http://answering-islam.or...noi2.html, emphasis mine.

I'd say that teaching that white men are the devil qualifies as hate. I can find a lot more, if you'd like, but I'll need a couple minutes. It's not like I'm going to find Farrakhan saying anything nice about the white devil.

tommyalma said:

These are not the words of Mr. Farrakan. But check this out.

Sometimes people try to cover their wrong doings by shielding them with the wrong doings of other people. Before you start addressing the "so-called" hate of Mr. Farrakan, you need to first address the root of the problem.

Don't make excuses for the wrongs that white men have committed in the name of God. Who put us in this situation anyway? Who controls the world banks, the environment, the huge corporations. What role have they played in shaping and forming the world today. Are they Christian-like? or are they Satan-like?

If you lived through slavery, Jim Crow, watched your children beaten and harassed because they want to go to and all-white school, seen your churches, churches I tell you burned down! what conclusions would you draw? These are certainly not the deeds of true believers in Christ who taught us to love thy brother as thyself. This seems to me the work of a creature with a more hideous nature.

If you get a chance, watch the movie "Rosewood". It's a true story about the nature of some white men.


And dems the facts Jack!

SweeTea said:

I would argue that you can look at the history of religion and find that these EXACT kinds of acts and WORSE have been perpetrated in the name of religion throughout the ages.

White people are in power? Fara isn't a racist?

Money is in power and unless something has changed, the Minister has given more than one speech about his hate of other groups.

Keep discussion on-topic

Hi all, please make an effort to keep this discussion ON TOPIC. If you want to discuss the teachings of the Nation of Islam and whether or not Farrakhan is a racist, do it in another thread where it is on topic - and do it intelligently and back up your statements. Anything else just tends to descend into a stupid flame war.

Hand waving arguments and emotive language like "the NOI is a black racist cult" is clearly not creating good discussion here, all it is doing is starting flame wars.

Lastly, instead of just saying "your point is shit" or "you are talking crap" say WHY. Criticise the ideas and arguments being put forward, not the person putting them forward.

There's no REASON why we can't discuss issues like these on the Org, apart from the small number of morons who try to turn everything into a flame war (I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of being a moron of course ). Keep it respectful and intelligent and we might end up with an intelligent thread that doesn't get locked - imagine that

JamesMarshallHendrix said:

I will not argue that Mr. Farrakan has in the past made some racist and hateful comments. I've heard them myself. I've also heard him reach out to the white community, but these comments are never publicized. He is a different person now than he was years ago. His bout with cancer somehow changed him and the hate IMO is not there, but has been replace by a need to mend the black community before we fall completely apart. This is his urgency now. I've heard him speak. I've seen the differnce he's attempting to make in my community. Before I relocated I lived less than a mile from his Chicago mosque. I see the black men on the streets trying to make a change. What proof do you have that he hates white people? What DEEDS has he performed to lead you to believe he's a racist?