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The film: Lake Of Fire 
Has anyone seen this film? It's by Tony Kaye who directed American History X. What are your thoughts? . [Edited 4/28/08 10:06am] America's political system used to be about the "pursuit of happiness." Now more and more of us want to stop chasing it and have it delivered.
"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."- | |
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two thumbs down | |
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I thought it said Land o lakes | |
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horatio said: two thumbs down
Please elaborate. What didn't you like about it? America's political system used to be about the "pursuit of happiness." Now more and more of us want to stop chasing it and have it delivered.
"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."- | |
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Brownsugar said: I thought it said Land o lakes
 Not even close.America's political system used to be about the "pursuit of happiness." Now more and more of us want to stop chasing it and have it delivered.
"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."- | |
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havent seen the film, but i know i made the movie..
flamin'.  my innocence raped my trust betrayed my mind deceived my heart in smitherines and u've got the gall to breathe. | |
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I see not many people have seen the movie or maybe no one has noticed this thread but it's about the abortion issue in America. Tony Kaye tries to take an objective stance in the film making process. The footage was collected over 10-15 years I think and it's shot in Black and White. I felt like it was a little too long but still an important movie to see. I wonder about his use of Black and White. If he was trying to intend something subliminal with it. He interviews many prominent people on the pro-choice side including Noam Chomsky and Alan Dershowitz. Not many prominent people with good arguments on the pro-life side accept the actual Roe (Norma McCorvey) who is now actively pro-life. It does seem to balance out with the graphic footage of abortions (plural) being performed. One done here in Minneapolis. You see human parts (limbs, eyes). In all fairness I think it was a pretty unbiased film maybe slightly skewed to the pro-choice side but with the graphic abortions one cannot help but feel pity on the fetus. It was very moving. I found myself shocked and teary. I recommend it. America's political system used to be about the "pursuit of happiness." Now more and more of us want to stop chasing it and have it delivered.
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This thread probably is headed for P&R. 
Haven't seen the movie but I'd think any film about abortion that shows actual abortions being performed deserves the label of propaganda. My understanding is that it took Tony Kaye 16 years to complete the film. That certainly qualifies it as a labor of love or, more specifically, a crusade. It doesn't sound remotely objective. I've no interest in seeing it. | |
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ThreadBare said: This thread probably is headed for P&R.
Haven't seen the movie but I'd think any film about abortion that shows actual abortions being performed deserves the label of propaganda. My understanding is that it took Tony Kaye 16 years to complete the film. That certainly qualifies it as a labor of love or, more specifically, a crusade. It doesn't sound remotely objective. I've no interest in seeing it. Au Contraire. I think because it took so long that he was being thorough. Don't you think it would be a biased film if it did not show an abortion? America's political system used to be about the "pursuit of happiness." Now more and more of us want to stop chasing it and have it delivered.
"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."- | |
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greenpixies said: ThreadBare said: This thread probably is headed for P&R.
Haven't seen the movie but I'd think any film about abortion that shows actual abortions being performed deserves the label of propaganda. My understanding is that it took Tony Kaye 16 years to complete the film. That certainly qualifies it as a labor of love or, more specifically, a crusade. It doesn't sound remotely objective. I've no interest in seeing it. Au Contraire. I think because it took so long that he was being thorough. Don't you think it would be a biased film if it did not show an abortion? Exactly my point -- his thoroughness and his technique betray his passion about the topic. To the point of his technique, I disagree that you have to show an abortion to be objective. It's just in poor taste. Your premise that one has to show the extremity of a topic in order to prove objectivity doesn't hold water, IMO. It'd be like saying: "Anything short of documenting sex shows a lack of objectivity concerning the debate over condom use and HIV/AIDS awareness." "Anything short of documenting slaughterhouse activity shows a lack of objectivity concerning whether people should live as vegetarians." Only someone totally committed to a position on a topic would choose a graphic presentation to sway someone to a more anti-abortion position. It's a propagandist tactic: appeal to emotions. | |
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ThreadBare said: greenpixies said: Au Contraire. I think because it took so long that he was being thorough. Don't you think it would be a biased film if it did not show an abortion? Exactly my point -- his thoroughness and his technique betray his passion about the topic. To the point of his technique, I disagree that you have to show an abortion to be objective. It's just in poor taste. Your premise that one has to show the extremity of a topic in order to prove objectivity doesn't hold water, IMO. It'd be like saying: "Anything short of documenting sex shows a lack of objectivity concerning the debate over condom use and HIV/AIDS awareness." "Anything short of documenting slaughterhouse activity shows a lack of objectivity concerning whether people should live as vegetarians." Only someone totally committed to a position on a topic would choose a graphic presentation to sway someone to a more anti-abortion position. It's a propagandist tactic: appeal to emotions. I don't know if it's appealing to emotion so much as truly showing how such and end (abortion) is achieved on an intellectual level. The fact that you think it's poor taste proves that it is an unsavory and invasive procedure. That is an important fact when it comes to abortion. To just think of it in the cerebral abstract does not do the issue justice. It is cerebral and it is visceral. I also think you shouldn't confirm bias until you've seen the movie. If anything, even with the abortions I think it was skewed to the pro-choice side when it comes to verbal argument. Do you think Tony Kaye is pro-life? . [Edited 4/28/08 19:13pm] America's political system used to be about the "pursuit of happiness." Now more and more of us want to stop chasing it and have it delivered.
"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."- | |
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greenpixies said: ThreadBare said: Exactly my point -- his thoroughness and his technique betray his passion about the topic. To the point of his technique, I disagree that you have to show an abortion to be objective. It's just in poor taste. Your premise that one has to show the extremity of a topic in order to prove objectivity doesn't hold water, IMO. It'd be like saying: "Anything short of documenting sex shows a lack of objectivity concerning the debate over condom use and HIV/AIDS awareness." "Anything short of documenting slaughterhouse activity shows a lack of objectivity concerning whether people should live as vegetarians." Only someone totally committed to a position on a topic would choose a graphic presentation to sway someone to a more anti-abortion position. It's a propagandist tactic: appeal to emotions. I don't know if it's appealing to emotion so much as truly showing how such and end (abortion) is achieved on an intellectual level. The fact that you think it's poor taste proves that it is an unsavory and invasive procedure. That is an important fact when it comes to abortion. To just think of it in the cerebral abstract does not do the issue justice. It is cerebral and it is visceral. I also think you shouldn't confirm bias until you've seen the movie. If anything, even with the abortions I think it was skewed to the pro-choice side when it comes to verbal argument. Do you think Tony Kaye is pro-life? I'm not going to see the movie. But I think we'll just continue to disagree. I think having an aversion to seeing something needn't have to do with what abortion is or isn't. I think vehicles such as Kaye's have an "ends justifies the means" vibe. Its graphic nature is going to turn away a lot of people who might be otherwise open to a discussion of it. He claims to not be pro-life, to have no opinion on the matter. | |
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ThreadBare said: greenpixies said: I don't know if it's appealing to emotion so much as truly showing how such and end (abortion) is achieved on an intellectual level. The fact that you think it's poor taste proves that it is an unsavory and invasive procedure. That is an important fact when it comes to abortion. To just think of it in the cerebral abstract does not do the issue justice. It is cerebral and it is visceral. I also think you shouldn't confirm bias until you've seen the movie. If anything, even with the abortions I think it was skewed to the pro-choice side when it comes to verbal argument. Do you think Tony Kaye is pro-life? I'm not going to see the movie. But I think we'll just continue to disagree. I think having an aversion to seeing something needn't have to do with what abortion is or isn't. I think vehicles such as Kaye's have an "ends justifies the means" vibe. Its graphic nature is going to turn away a lot of people who might be otherwise open to a discussion of it. He claims to not be pro-life, to have no opinion on the matter. You don't have to see the movie. That's your perogative. I'm just sayin you can't claim bias until you have. I know Tony Kaye claims neutrality. I'm asking if you think he's pro-life? America's political system used to be about the "pursuit of happiness." Now more and more of us want to stop chasing it and have it delivered.
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greenpixies said: ThreadBare said: I'm not going to see the movie. But I think we'll just continue to disagree. I think having an aversion to seeing something needn't have to do with what abortion is or isn't. I think vehicles such as Kaye's have an "ends justifies the means" vibe. Its graphic nature is going to turn away a lot of people who might be otherwise open to a discussion of it. He claims to not be pro-life, to have no opinion on the matter. You don't have to see the movie. That's your perogative. I'm just sayin you can't claim bias until you have. I know Tony Kaye claims neutrality. I'm asking if you think he's pro-life? I think it's inconsistent to spend about 17 years of your life to shoot a documentary about a topic that you say you have no philosophical or emotional stake in. Add in the graphic nature of the movie, and I think it's reasonable to call it pro-life propaganda. So, yes, my suspicion is he's pro-life, despite his public denials. | |
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