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PrintablereneGade20 said: noimageatall said: See, now that is just insane. I live in Chicago, where drive-bys happen a lot. School kids shot every day. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that would happen on an Army base in TX. WTF are they shooting at each other for? You're telling me there is that much serious gang activity on military bases now? 
What are the higher-ups doing about this? I'm an EO rep, so I can tell you that we monitor and dissuade gang activity strenuously...from affiliations to tats, we're on top of it...but, much like our civilian law enforcement counterparts, the secrecy is deep...and the bangers take care not to expose their alligences....the Ft. Hood incident is a well known case, as is the gang related murder of a troop in Germany a couple years ago as a result of getting jumped into a gang....its a problem to be sure, but as long as troops get involved with gangs and pledge alligence to the gangs, there's not a whole lot we can do short of declaring martial law in the ranks.... So, this has got to be a big problem. How can two rival gang members be trusted not to shoot each other in the back if they are sent to Iraq or some other place where they have to depend on each other for their lives? And since you said the guy in Germany got "jumped" in, I'm assuming they are recruiting even while in the military? "Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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noimageatall said: So, this has got to be a big problem. How can two rival gang members be trusted not to shoot each other in the back if they are sent to Iraq or some other place where they have to depend on each other for their lives? And since you said the guy in Germany got "jumped" in, I'm assuming they are recruiting even while in the military? Its big enough that its on the radar, for sure..the guy in Germany was recruited by members of some gang out of Chicago that were in the Army and Air Force...the leader of that set was an ex-serviceman who stayed overseas when he got out.... of course, its a giant leap of faith that rivals WON'T shoot each other during war.... He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
(George Eliot) the video for the above... 
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reneGade20 said: noimageatall said: So, this has got to be a big problem. How can two rival gang members be trusted not to shoot each other in the back if they are sent to Iraq or some other place where they have to depend on each other for their lives? And since you said the guy in Germany got "jumped" in, I'm assuming they are recruiting even while in the military? Its big enough that its on the radar, for sure..the guy in Germany was recruited by members of some gang out of Chicago that were in the Army and Air Force...the leader of that set was an ex-serviceman who stayed overseas when he got out.... of course, its a giant leap of faith that rivals WON'T shoot each other during war.... Are these gangs now part of the service out of some grand plan the gangs have or is it due to the lax standards where the military is letting ANYONE but gays in to serve. I mean seriously, what is the worst that a gay man is gonna do. We certainly aren't going to do drive by's but we are unacceptable. IT's only a matter of time before don't ask don't tell is repealed out of necessity. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: reneGade20 said: Its big enough that its on the radar, for sure..the guy in Germany was recruited by members of some gang out of Chicago that were in the Army and Air Force...the leader of that set was an ex-serviceman who stayed overseas when he got out.... of course, its a giant leap of faith that rivals WON'T shoot each other during war.... Are these gangs now part of the service out of some grand plan the gangs have or is it due to the lax standards where the military is letting [b]ANYONE but gays in to serve.[/b] I mean seriously, what is the worst that a gay man is gonna do. We certainly aren't going to do drive by's but we are unacceptable. IT's only a matter of time before don't ask don't tell is repealed out of necessity. IMHO that's it exactly!! He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
(George Eliot) the video for the above...
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: reneGade20 said: Its big enough that its on the radar, for sure..the guy in Germany was recruited by members of some gang out of Chicago that were in the Army and Air Force...the leader of that set was an ex-serviceman who stayed overseas when he got out.... of course, its a giant leap of faith that rivals WON'T shoot each other during war.... Are these gangs now part of the service out of some grand plan the gangs have or is it due to the lax standards where the military is letting ANYONE but gays in to serve. I mean seriously, what is the worst that a gay man is gonna do. We certainly aren't going to do drive by's but we are unacceptable. IT's only a matter of time before don't ask don't tell is repealed out of necessity. 
(shameless plug) Barack Obama believes we need to repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military. His campaign literature says, "The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve."
"Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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Oh my GOD. I am so sorry this happened to you and your son. I don't have any advise other that to stay vigilant and make sure you document EVERYTHING. Have you sought legal counsel? I briefly lived in Killeen which is right next to Ft. Hood and my uncle who was a sergeant there used to tell me all kinds of crazy stories about how soldiers behave. 
Ironically, I just saw an episode of the History Channel's show Gangland where they were talking about how all of the armed forces are rife with gang activity. Basically, every gang that's on the streets is in the armed forces, everything from Aryan Brotherhood, Crips, Bloods, and every major Latino street gang from LA. They even showed how the gangs are tagging streets in IRAQ!!! The government is providing tactical training to roughly 10,000 gang bangers and they're going back home and using the recruiting and weapons training they received on the streets. We are our own worst enemies. Scary stuff.
At any rate, your family has my prayers.  | |
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reneGade20 said: noimageatall said: So, this has got to be a big problem. How can two rival gang members be trusted not to shoot each other in the back if they are sent to Iraq or some other place where they have to depend on each other for their lives? And since you said the guy in Germany got "jumped" in, I'm assuming they are recruiting even while in the military? Its big enough that its on the radar, for sure..the guy in Germany was recruited by members of some gang out of Chicago that were in the Army and Air Force...the leader of that set was an ex-serviceman who stayed overseas when he got out.... of course, its a giant leap of faith that rivals WON'T shoot each other during war.... They talked about this incident on Gangland. Apparently, the dude that jumped him in was never captured. They also talked about an incident near Camp Lejeune I believe, where a soldier wanted to join the Aryan Brotherhood and he was told he needed to kill a black person to become a member. He ended up walking up to a black husband and wife on the street and killing them both. One of the guys they interviewed was ex-military AND a former member of the Aryan Brotherhood and he talked about how prevalent his gang and others are in the military.
Here's a link to the FBI's report on gang activity in the military. http://www.stripes.com/07..._gangs.pdf Fort Hood, Texas, Army Installation officials have identified nearly 40 gang members on base since 2003. Military-affiliated Gangster Disciple members at Fort Hood have been responsible for robberies, assaults, theft, and burglaries on and off base. In 2005 a Fort Hood soldier and Gangster Disciple leader was convicted of committing two aggravated robberies.
According to an August 2006 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, military recruiter violations increased 50 percent from 2004 to 2005. The report concluded that military recruiters under pressure to meet recruiting goals have engaged in criminal violations such as overly aggressive recruiting tactics and document falsification. The Army, Navy, and Air Force measure recruiter performance by the number of recruits who enlist rather than the number who actually complete basic training,9 which may encourage recruiter violations. [Edited 4/16/08 16:18pm] | |
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SCNDLS said:[quote] reneGade20 said: They talked about this incident on Gangland. Apparently, the dude that jumped him in was never captured. They also talked about an incident near Camp Lejeune I believe, where a soldier wanted to join the Aryan Brotherhood and he was told he needed to kill a black person to become a member. He ended up walking up to a black husband and wife on the street and killing them both. One of the guys they interviewed was ex-military AND a former member of the Aryan Brotherhood and he talked about how prevalent his gang and others are in the military.
Here's a link to the FBI's report on gang activity in the military. http://www.stripes.com/07..._gangs.pdf Fort Hood, Texas, Army Installation officials have identified nearly 40 gang members on base since 2003. Military-affiliated Gangster Disciple members at Fort Hood have been responsible for robberies, assaults, theft, and burglaries on and off base. In 2005 a Fort Hood soldier and Gangster Disciple leader was convicted of committing two aggravated robberies.
According to an August 2006 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, military recruiter violations increased 50 percent from 2004 to 2005. The report concluded that military recruiters under pressure to meet recruiting goals have engaged in criminal violations such as overly aggressive recruiting tactics and document falsification. The Army, Navy, and Air Force measure recruiter performance by the number of recruits who enlist rather than the number who actually complete basic training,9 which may encourage recruiter violations. [Edited 4/16/08 16:18pm] This is CRAZY!! I can't believe I was afraid for Gabe to go to Iraq, and now I'm afraid for his life on a base. What has happened to this country?  First we train Osama and now we're training bangers so they can come home and kill with even more precision? I am just about to give up and stop reading anything at all. I can't take it."Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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SCNDLS said: At any rate, your family has my prayers.
 Thank you."Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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http://www.cbsnews.com/st...tpop_story
The Military's Showdown Over PTSD
Battle Between The Old School And New School Methods For Handling Troops' Mental Health FORT HOOD, Texas, April 17, 2008 Twenty-two year old combat medic Jonathan Norrell is still haunted by his memories of war. Now, his battle over PTSD illustrates the military's internal disagreements over the disorder. (CBS) Soldiers Denied PTSD Treatment Experts warn that a new generation of soldiers is positioned to suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. But as Kimberly Dozier reports, the military is doing little to ease their pain. (CBS) Twenty-two year old combat medic Jonathan Norrell volunteered for every mission during his year in Iraq. He was bombed, ambushed, treating wounded under fire - and the memories still haunt him, CBS News correspondent Kimberly Dozier reports. "The things that affected me the most weren't the IEDs, which I went through six or seven of, and all the firefights, and all the combat," Norrell said. "It was the psychological stuff, the people I failed to help." By the time he came off his tour of duty he was diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder: anxiety, sleeplessness, flashbacks. Military doctors recommended immediate discharge and treatment but the command refused. Instead they forced him into combat training exercises. He turned to drugs and alcohol. "I just lost it," Norrell said. "I didn't wanna do it anymore." So the Army he served so well in Iraq threatened to expel him without medical benefits. Norrell's case reveals the showdown inside the military, between the new school and old school view on how to handle PTSD - one of the signature injuries of the Afghan and Iraq wars. And experts warn there's a storm coming: a generation of soldiers coming home with PTSD. A new study estimateas that roughly one in five U.S. troops CBS News has been given documents showing more than 100,000 vets of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are seeking help for mental health disorders. Norrell decided to fight back by reaching out to veteran's groups and advocates like Carissa Picard of Military Spouses for Change. Picard's husband leaves for Iraq in June. "Our soldiers didn't choose to wage this war; they didn't choose to go to Iraq or Afghanistan," she said. "We've sent them there. We need to take responsibility for what happens to them." Norrell's struggle for help took months of meetings, phone calls, e-mails, lobbying Congressmen and the top levels of the Pentagon before she finally got help at Fort Hood. We asked the man in charge there why it took so long. "The field commander recognizes the soldier has a problem, and they request the soldier to be transferred to the warrior transition unit," said Col. Casper P. Jones III. Dozier said: "That sounds great, but we know in this situation, for several months, it didn't happen." "It didn't happen," Jones said. "I think there are lessons from this case that can help us all as we move forward." ----- FYI: Warning Signs, Symptoms and How To Find Help for PTSD ----- CBS News has learned that top Pentagon officials have made visits to bases across the country. They're telling Army commanders to take their doctors' diagnoses more seriously, and get the troops treatment. Norrell hopes that by speaking out, other troops won't have to fight so hard to get the help they need. "Hopefully what happened to me won't happen to any more soldiers," he said. "Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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Time 4 some covert sh*t. | |
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I guess my son was telling me the truth. 
http://www.nytimes.com/20...tml?ref=us Army and Marine Corps Grant More Felony Waivers
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ Published: April 22, 2008 Strained by the demands of a long war, the Army and the Marine Corps recruited significantly more felons into their ranks in 2007 than in 2006, including people convicted of armed robbery, arson and burglary, according to data released Monday by a House committee. Lowering Standards for Army Recruits The number of waivers issued to active-duty Army recruits with felony convictions jumped to 511 in 2007, from 249 in 2006. Marine recruits with felony convictions rose to 350 from 208. Over all, the numbers represent less than 1 percent of the 115,000 new enlistments last year in the active-duty Army and Marine Corps. Coupled with sharp increases in the number of waivers for misdemeanors, the trend raises questions about the military’s ability to attract quality recruits at a time when it is trying to increase enlistment. The Army, which has suffered the most war casualties and the longest deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, faces an especially difficult challenge in attracting qualified men and women. From Sept. 30, 2006, to Sept. 30, 2007, the Army granted so-called conduct waivers for felonies and misdemeanors to 18 percent of its new recruits, an increase of three percentage points from the previous year. So far, in just the first six months of this fiscal year, the Army has granted waivers to 13 percent of its recruits. “It raises concerns,” said Representative Henry A. Waxman, the California Democrat who is chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, which requested the information on felony waivers from the Department of Defense. “An increase in the recruitment of individuals with criminal records is a result of the strains put on the military by the Iraq war and may be undermining our military readiness.” Mr. Waxman said his committee had requested additional information on the specifics of the felony waivers, the rationale for granting them and the waiver program’s track record. Lt. Col. Patrick Ryder of the Air Force, a Defense Department spokesman, said waivers were used among the services rarely and judiciously. Dispensations are granted only after a careful review of any applicant’s record and the circumstances surrounding the charge or conviction, Colonel Ryder said. Often, he added, the charges occurred when the recruits were juveniles and were less serious than they appeared initially. Only one in three young men in the general population meet the physical, mental, educational and other eligibility requirements to enlist in the armed forces. Colonel Ryder said that in the past year, the percentage of waivers issued to people with criminal histories and medical conditions declined for the Defense Department in general. “The services continue to ensure that numerical recruiting missions are met with above-average young men and women from across America,” Colonel Ryder said. “Low unemployment, a protracted war on terror, a decline in propensity to serve and a growing disinclination of influencers to recommend military service make the current environment a challenging one for recruiters.” The 2006 and 2007 Pentagon data released Monday show for the first time the number of dispensations issued for specific felonies. The number of Army waivers for aggravated assaults with a dangerous weapon rose to 43 from 33. Waivers for burglaries increased to 106 from 36. Waivers for possession of narcotics, excluding marijuana, rose to 130 from 71 and for larceny to 56 from 26. In the Marine Corps, waivers for burglary convictions rose to 142 from 90, while those for aggravated assault increased to 44 from 35. The Army also listed a handful of felony waivers granted for kidnapping, making terroristic threats, rape or sexual abuse, and indecent acts or liberties with a child. Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb, an Army spokeswoman, said the waivers had been carefully vetted and were not as serious as they appeared on paper. The kidnapping charge involved a divorced woman who moved out of state with her child without the permission of her former husband, she said. One terroristic threat charge involved a 14-year-old who called in a bomb threat to his school, and the other also involved a minor. The rape and sexual abuse charges stemmed mostly from relationships between minors and older boyfriends, Colonel Edgecomb said. None were violent sexual crimes, she added. “We take this incredibly seriously,” Colonel Edgecomb said. “This is our Army, too. We have to serve with the people we allow in.” Military analysts, though, say these are exactly the kinds of recruits who would never have been allowed into the Army before the war in Iraq. To reach its recruiting targets, the Army has had to soften many of its requirements. It now allows in more recruits who did not graduate from high school and who received lower test scores in their service entry exams. Recruits are older and less physically fit. And there are more people in the service with medical conditions that would have otherwise disqualified their enlistment. “With the Iraq war being as controversial as it is and absent any higher level call to service, it’s a very difficult challenge to all the services, particularly the Army,” said Michele Flournoy, the president and co-founder of the Center for a New American Security, a centrist research organization that focuses on national security and military policies. “The fact that the use of waivers has increased dramatically is something that should be of concern and should be watched over time.” Over time???? We are already seeing murders from gang activity, drive-bys, and what has happened to my son. How much more time do they need?[Edited 4/22/08 0:23am] "Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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noimageatall said: I guess my son was telling me the truth.
http://www.nytimes.com/20...tml?ref=us Army and Marine Corps Grant More Felony Waivers
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ Published: April 22, 2008 Strained by the demands of a long war, the Army and the Marine Corps recruited significantly more felons into their ranks in 2007 than in 2006, including people convicted of armed robbery, arson and burglary, according to data released Monday by a House committee. Lowering Standards for Army Recruits The number of waivers issued to active-duty Army recruits with felony convictions jumped to 511 in 2007, from 249 in 2006. Marine recruits with felony convictions rose to 350 from 208. Over all, the numbers represent less than 1 percent of the 115,000 new enlistments last year in the active-duty Army and Marine Corps. Coupled with sharp increases in the number of waivers for misdemeanors, the trend raises questions about the military’s ability to attract quality recruits at a time when it is trying to increase enlistment. The Army, which has suffered the most war casualties and the longest deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, faces an especially difficult challenge in attracting qualified men and women. From Sept. 30, 2006, to Sept. 30, 2007, the Army granted so-called conduct waivers for felonies and misdemeanors to 18 percent of its new recruits, an increase of three percentage points from the previous year. So far, in just the first six months of this fiscal year, the Army has granted waivers to 13 percent of its recruits. “It raises concerns,” said Representative Henry A. Waxman, the California Democrat who is chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, which requested the information on felony waivers from the Department of Defense. “An increase in the recruitment of individuals with criminal records is a result of the strains put on the military by the Iraq war and may be undermining our military readiness.” Mr. Waxman said his committee had requested additional information on the specifics of the felony waivers, the rationale for granting them and the waiver program’s track record. Lt. Col. Patrick Ryder of the Air Force, a Defense Department spokesman, said waivers were used among the services rarely and judiciously. Dispensations are granted only after a careful review of any applicant’s record and the circumstances surrounding the charge or conviction, Colonel Ryder said. Often, he added, the charges occurred when the recruits were juveniles and were less serious than they appeared initially. Only one in three young men in the general population meet the physical, mental, educational and other eligibility requirements to enlist in the armed forces. Colonel Ryder said that in the past year, the percentage of waivers issued to people with criminal histories and medical conditions declined for the Defense Department in general. “The services continue to ensure that numerical recruiting missions are met with above-average young men and women from across America,” Colonel Ryder said. “Low unemployment, a protracted war on terror, a decline in propensity to serve and a growing disinclination of influencers to recommend military service make the current environment a challenging one for recruiters.” The 2006 and 2007 Pentagon data released Monday show for the first time the number of dispensations issued for specific felonies. The number of Army waivers for aggravated assaults with a dangerous weapon rose to 43 from 33. Waivers for burglaries increased to 106 from 36. Waivers for possession of narcotics, excluding marijuana, rose to 130 from 71 and for larceny to 56 from 26. In the Marine Corps, waivers for burglary convictions rose to 142 from 90, while those for aggravated assault increased to 44 from 35. The Army also listed a handful of felony waivers granted for kidnapping, making terroristic threats, rape or sexual abuse, and indecent acts or liberties with a child. Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb, an Army spokeswoman, said the waivers had been carefully vetted and were not as serious as they appeared on paper. The kidnapping charge involved a divorced woman who moved out of state with her child without the permission of her former husband, she said. One terroristic threat charge involved a 14-year-old who called in a bomb threat to his school, and the other also involved a minor. The rape and sexual abuse charges stemmed mostly from relationships between minors and older boyfriends, Colonel Edgecomb said. None were violent sexual crimes, she added. “We take this incredibly seriously,” Colonel Edgecomb said. “This is our Army, too. We have to serve with the people we allow in.” Military analysts, though, say these are exactly the kinds of recruits who would never have been allowed into the Army before the war in Iraq. To reach its recruiting targets, the Army has had to soften many of its requirements. It now allows in more recruits who did not graduate from high school and who received lower test scores in their service entry exams. Recruits are older and less physically fit. And there are more people in the service with medical conditions that would have otherwise disqualified their enlistment. “With the Iraq war being as controversial as it is and absent any higher level call to service, it’s a very difficult challenge to all the services, particularly the Army,” said Michele Flournoy, the president and co-founder of the Center for a New American Security, a centrist research organization that focuses on national security and military policies. “The fact that the use of waivers has increased dramatically is something that should be of concern and should be watched over time.” Over time???? We are already seeing murders from gang activity, drive-bys, and what has happened to my son. How much more time do they need?
[Edited 4/22/08 0:23am] Honey, yes. On that Gangland show, they featured a story about one ex-Army guy that used his tactical training to kill a cop and attempt to murder his partner. They had video cameras in the parking lot where it happened and you could see him moving as he was taught in the Army. It was crazy! | |
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Goddamn Can you believe felons can't vote but they can serve in the armed forces now?2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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noimageatall said: Over time???? We are already seeing murders from gang activity, drive-bys, and what has happened to my son. How much more time do they need?
[Edited 4/22/08 0:23am] That was definitely a disturbing article, but you have to take it with a grain of salt because while it is factual, it is also very sensationalistic...the numbers that they're talking about equal out to a battalion sized element in a service that is working on a multiple division platform...in other words, we're unscientifically talking about a ratio of 1:1500 soldiers with violence or other normal disqualifiers on their record. For an organization this size (and I'm only talking Army....the ratio gets much larger if you include all of the services), the ratio falls well short of the general population... Being in a leadership position, I've had my share of troops that I've supervised directly and indirectly...I've had my share of chuckleheads and idiots who just don't get it...but I have to take issue with the tone of the article because it paints the Army with a pretty broad brush...and to my knowledge, the total number of violent incidents across the Army annually pales in comparison to what happens in most places around the country on a monthly basis... Again, I can't stand that there are folks that wear the uniform I wear and do the job I do who either do stuff like this or condone it because it undermines everything good that the rest of us try to do...and I can't apologize enough to anyone who's child has suffered at the hands of his "comrades" like this...so don't take what I'm saying as anything other than a different perspective on that article.... 
...and I hope that he's doing better.... He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
(George Eliot) the video for the above...
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related | |
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