Graycap23 said:

But you just said he makes his tammates better. You mean MJ couldn't MAKE him NOT stand out of bounds? That's MJ's fault, right? OH! My bad - It only falls on MJ if it's a POSITIVE as a result of his mere presence. Got it!

You can't have it both ways, playa. If he makes them better then balance also says he makes them fuck up as well.

MuthaFunka said:

Lol.....Jordan took several teams full of scrubs 2 the playoffs every year before they started winning. That's a fact.

Graycap23 said:

Ah! So MJ DOESN'T make his teammates better, because that would mean they'd be able to sustain that "better" without him. Thanks for proving my point, dawg!

And you also didn't answer my question about when MJ returned in 94 - Why didn't they win the title if it was only about him "driving his teammates to perform"?

MuthaFunka said:

Did u not read my comment: They were better with him and the results were greater than the sum of it's parts. Jordan was the key. Without him.....back 2 scrubville.

MuthaFunka said:

Wow, I didn't know I was talking to Al Bundy. Tell us about the time you scored 4 touchdowns in a high school football game.

LOL.

Graycap23 said:

Sooooo when someone makes YOU better, it's ONLY for as long as that person is around? Take a coach: When your coach "made you better" - after you left that coach, you went back to what you were BEFORE you came across that coach?

And dawg - Why are you avoiding this question? Did I stump you, playa? LOL!



What's up? No response?

RodeoSchro said:

Oh so YOU played PRO BALL? Name the team(s) then.

MuthaFunka said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:

Mj retired in 1994. His 1st FULL season back was the 1996 season.

U can't be serious about your 1st question. The proof is in the pudding. What did the Bulls players do when they did NOT play with Jordan? Not much.

Graycap23 said:

No, he came back in the 94-95 season with 17 games to go. Now, why didn't they win the title if it was ONLY about him "driving his teammates to perform"?

And again, when you got finished with a coach that made you better, after you left, did you lose the "better" that you got from that coach?

MuthaFunka said:

Bro.....u CANNOT complete at highest level of the NBA with 17 games under your belt. U better than that.

Graycap23 said:

BINGO! LMAO! You JUST proved my earlier point:

You said:



Then I said:



When MJ left - best player gone - No titles. When MJ came back - best player returns - 3 more titles. You proved that it isn't him "driving his teammates" that won them the titles, it's about the best player on their team returning in order for them to win 3 more titles. Like I said earlier.

And you didn't answer this question:

MuthaFunka said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:

Even thoug u are dead wrong.....U are still my boy.

Graycap23 said:

LOL! Aw fuck! So you ain't gonna admit that it was ALL about MJ's return and NOTHING about "he drives his teammates" for them to win their titles? C'mon, dawg! Tell me you ain't gonna go out like that!

And then you ain't even gonna answer my OTHER question? What's up on THAT shit? Nevermind, I know - MJ is your boy and you will protect him at all costs.....There are TONS of MJ fans that are like that, so I can't hold you to task as if you're the only one.

MuthaFunka said:

LMAO, you've been busted as nothing but an armchair quarterback.

Nice try!

MuthaFunka said:

Lol.....u know damn well Jordan made those donuts in Chicago. Other than Pippen, Ho Grant, Rodman, and Bill Cartwright.....the rest of those guys should be thanking Mj everyday for the $$$ he made them.

RodeoSchro said:

LOL! So basically you're telling us that you never played organzied sports so you thought you'd try and avoid the question with a weak ass joke. Got it. That's exactly what I thought to begin with.

MuthaFunka said:

What is the other q?

Graycap23 said:

No, what I DO know is that MJ needed Pip/Rodman/Horace or else MJ would have a "donut" next to his "# of NBA Titles"

MuthaFunka said:

LOL. Dude - when you're in a hole, the first thing to do is STOP DIGGING.





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[Edited 4/11/08 13:32pm]

Graycap23 said:

RodeoSchro said:

What's that? STILL no counterpoint to my original question I posed to you? Ah, thought so!

MuthaFunka said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:

In general? No.
In Chicago? Yes. The triangle offense does NOT translate. If u leave that system, u leave the BENEFITS of that system.

Graycap23 said:

Ok, now you're in trouble, playa - Because the triangle hinders most players because the systaem doesn't promote "free-wheeling" by the player except for the player it's designed around - MJ. Outside of the triangle, most players flourish because there are less constraints than what the triangle gives.

Why do you think Kobe hated the triangle when it was designed around Shaq? because it hindered him. The same way Payton hated the triangle because the triangle pretty much deems the PG obsolete and makes him a 3pt-chucker and for ball-dominating PGs, thats's not conducive for them because they're used to having the rock in their hands and making most of the decisions while the triangle promotes constant ball movement.

MuthaFunka said:

Way off. The triangle offense is designed 2 get everyone involved in the offense. It ONLY works when U run it PROPERLY. Why do u think the John Paxsons, Trent tuckers, Bj Armstrongs, Toni Kukocs, Craig Hodges etc were always so WIDE open? The triangle.

Graycap23 said:

It gets everyone involved as far as "touches" ONLY. After that, it's up to the focus of the triangle (MJ/Shaq/Kobe) to THEN facilitate the offense to where he sees fit. The main facilitator is also the focus of the triangle offense.

LOL! And they were wide open because TEAMS DOUBLED AND TRIPLED MJ! C'mon, dawg! YOU KNOW THIS SHIT! LOL!

MuthaFunka said:

U are agreeing with me.....even when u are not agreeing with me. That's pretty good.

MuthaFunka said:

LMAO. Dude, Graycap has handed your hat to you nine different ways from Sunday.

The fact you made the comment that great players don't make their teammates better exposes the fact that you are not a player. You can go on and on about how you covered sports for the Internet, but every PLAYER (and most spectators) knows you don't know the first thing about competition.

Graycap23 said:

What you talkin' 'bout, Willis? - YOU said they were open because the triangle was ran properly. False. They were open because MJ was doubled and tripled!

RodeoSchro said:

No he didn't just try THEE weakest "divide and conquer" move ever! Again, I asked YOU to respond. Stop trying to piggy-back off people that know more about hoops than you, son!

MuthaFunka said:

Actually, that is the DESIGN of the triangle. Kobe was frustrated because he wnated 2 go one on one and "free" wheel but that's counter 2 the triangle. It doesn't work.
[Edited 4/11/08 14:09pm]