Please...especially you psychologists....share your thoughts, need a little guidance.

Monique was friends with my little girl. Monique also has a history of depression and anger management problems. When my girl got cast on a TV show, Monique got all nasty and started talking badly about my girl to their 5th grade classmates. It got back to my girl and I advised her to keep her distance from Monique, not to be nasty but to just distance herself. Monique's mom likes my girl a lot, said she misses the friendship etc. and shared with me that Monique told her she was jealous of my girl and always has been about one thing or another. I have told my girl that anybody who is constantly jealous of your accomplishments instead of feeling happy for you cant really ever be a true friend. Well, after the whole thing where Monique was talking about my girl and in addition to some of her other behaviors against other classmates, the majority of the class has begun to shun Monique. (There is only one 5th grade.)

I told my daughter not to do anything aggressive toward Monique, but at the same time, I am not supporting a continuing close friendship. My girl says hello and all but she's not trying to sit with Monique at lunch or on the bus anymore. The situation is getting to the point where Monique is doing little things (dirty looks, lies, dropping doors etc.) on the other children, including my girl. Then yesterday, Monique called my home and wanted to be all chummy with my girl (who was thankfully outside playing). My girl has noticed Monique sulking, crying etc. more and more....I dont want this child to get pushed over the edge in this age of kids killing themselves (or worse...killing others). Any ideas on helping to diffuse this situation? I have also learned that Monique's emotions about her interactions with the others are causing her to avoid school. (I feel the teacher and administration who are fully aware of things, have been useless.)
[Edited 3/27/08 6:26am]

It sounds like you're already doing everything you can do. You're listening to your daughter, giving her sound advice and you're talking with Monique's mother. It's obvious that little girl needs some help, but other than offering your support to her mother, there's not much more you can do.

Or maybe there is. I don't know.

How old is 5th grade?

PREDOMINANT said:

10 years old, sometimes 11.

PREDOMINANT said:

Sadly...this junk is going on with a group where the majority are a bunch of 11 year olds. I hear that the drama only gets worse as they get older.

I must say...I miss the old school...when I was growing up, I just beat your ass on the playground right then and there if you talked trash--and win or lose, the conflict totally ended right there...no more bitchassedness.

It won't be the school staff or administration that seeks out a mental health referral.. it will be the parent, so keep that other parent informed. If the parent refuses to take the information seriously, well, shit I donno.

Congratulations on your daughter's casting by the way! That is awesome.

Cinnie said:

thank you very, very much

[Edited 3/27/08 6:47am]

Kids are cruel and unfortunately it will always be this way. It sounds like you are doing just the right thing....giving her advice but not telling her what to do. It's a part of growing up and learning who you are and consequences of the decisions you make. Just continue to teach her to be herself and be strong and she'll make the right decisions. If she doesn't then she will grow and learn from them.

I know mothers who will wait at the school bus stop with their kids to cuss out the bullies and get way too involved. I don't agree with that. If it gets out of control then perhaps a meeting with the school faculty and maybe the parents of the children will be necessary.

Congrats on your daughter's accomplishment!

CarrieLee said:

thanks CarrieLee

co-sign with Carrie Lee

Although I understand your worries about the other child there is really nothing else you can do. Talk to her mother and express your concerns and then it is out of your hands. I understand your feelings that you are watching a train about to wreak, but so often those of us who know better, who have insight, take it upon ourselves to parent the world and sometimes it backfires on us. Since Monique's mom considers you a friend, you can as a friend express your feelings and gently suggest that she seek help for her daughter. Do not doubt yourself, what you have told your child is correct, unfortunately Monique is reaping what she has sown. This is a good lesson for her and maybe her behavior will change as a result of the shunning of her peers. It is the job of her mother to guide her through this. From what you have said it looks like she is able to take care of this.

Why don't you just stay out of it and let the kids handle things for themselves?

I swear...parents today. They think they have to handle every little issue for their precious darlings. News flash: Your kids are never going to learn to get along with people and settle their differences if Mommy sticks her nose in every time. In fact, Mommy just makes it worse - because now, in addition feeling a little benign jealousy toward your daughter, the other girl probably thinks she's a big baby because her mommy had to get involved - and what's more, has been shamed for what is a totally normal reaction at the age of 10.

This girl called your daughter yesterday. If your daughter had been around and talked to her, what would have happened? Might they have squashed this whole thing? Might they have worked it through and become friends again? Wouldn't that be horrible?

You are the one who is keeping this going. I think you need to ask yourself why you're giving a 10-year-old that kind of power over how you (presumably a grown woman) react.

You don't need a psychologist. You need a dose of common sense.

Genesia said:

She is staying out of it, nothing wrong with a little guidance and words of wisdom. Sheesh.

CarrieLee said:

By what standard would involving the other mother, teachers, and the administration in routine childhood dispute be considered "staying out of it?"

Sheesh yourself.

And just for the record, I was routinely the "Monique" in situations like this as a kid. My mom let me fight my own battles and I am a stronger person for it...bless her.

Genesia said:

I'm sure you were the Monique...

If the situation escalates then yes, she should talk to the administration. Until then let them battle it out, which the mother is clearly doing.

Back in the day it was easy to fight it out and get over it. Unfortunately times have changed and that doesn't happen all the time anymore.

Genesia said:

That was kind of harsh....
From what I read, it doesn't really sound like SGI was "handling it". She just tried to give her daughter advice because she was upset. No one likes to be teased or shunned by their peers. It also seemed that because her daughter was outside playing, she didn't run & get her for the little girl who has been "bullying" her.

Yes, I said "bullying". I am a high school teacher. I have watched girls talk about, tease, and alienate other girls to the point of serious consequences. In fact, the sub just called me at home and told me I will have a girl in my class who was kicked out of a private school for this very thing when I get back next week.

StillGotIt, I think U should also make sure the teacher is aware of the dynamics- not to do anything right away, but just to keep an eye out for escalating behaviors.
(And congratulations, also! )

CarrieLee said:

I got the impression that teachers and administrators had already been informed when this was at the run-of-the-mill spat stage.

Yes, times have changed. Parents have become more smothering and spoiling. I know whenceof I speak - I see it every day. I'm currently doing a play in which 16 children under the age of 14 are involved. The level of parental babying and interference is truly mind-boggling.

But 10-year-olds...who are still guided primarily by basic human nature...haven't changed. They have the resources to figure out how to handle things. But they won't if their parents keep butting in and trying to shield them from every misunderstanding or hurt feeling.

This girl has already made overtures to try and get the friendship back. Why not see where that goes? My friends and I fought like cats as kids...mostly over petty jealousies...and we're still friends today. I would consider a 40-year friendship "true" friendship. Wouldn't you?

I agree that there are parents like that, I even stated it in my first post that I don't agree with it.

BUT if the situation escalates then the school needs to know. There are more and more 10 year olds hurting their peers physically and I'm talking really hurting them. Not just a hair pulling fight. Better to be safe than sorry.

CarrieMpls said:

Girls learn to be bitches early huh?

Sound to me like it's just one of those things, guide your own well and they should work out who their friends are for themselves.

PREDOMINANT said:

on both points.

StillGotIt said:

My oldest girl is in 5th and it scares me, the amount of cattiness and meanness that occurs.

I think you might be indulging in a little revisionist history, though. I remember some girls being just as mean when we were kids, and even if it got to a brawl on the playground, it did not always totally end right then and there...

It is frustrating to be a parent nowadays, though. Some of these kids are downright fucking psychotic.

FunkMistress said:

yea...you are right...it didn't always end right there for everyone. However, for me it did...I never ever had to re-fight anybody. I had a huge family and was lifting my brothers' weights as soon as my hand could fit around the bar...I wanted to be strong like them. Anyway...nobody ever wanted to fight me again--I was well trained...and also they knew if they came back with peeps, my family was just too damned huge.

StillGotIt said:

Ah, you were a special case! Built-in security team!

awww man...I had this awesome response and my dang computer did something weird and its erased.....grrrrr....gotta reconstruct

StillGotIt said:

yea, but times have changed now people stab and shoot people. it's hard to say what to do

Genesia said:

The idea that I'm trying to keep this going is absurd. In addition to Monique's "overtures" she has also stepped up efforts to initiate a physical confrontation. She dwarfs my daughter in size, but my daughter is not afraid of her (almost has her brown belt). I just dont want it to go there....it wouldn't be good for anyone.

As for your own situation, I'm sure you were allowed to totally fight out your battles. You were not the one threatened...you were the threat, the bully. Your pespective is biased and tainted. By the way, often when someone becomes friends with their bully/batterer, a clinical term referring to the need to continue the relationship is often ascribed. (For example, battered women often stay in marriages for years, but it doesn't mean its a healthy relationship--so time in a relationship is not the sole measurement of a successful relatinship in my opinion.)

Thanks to those who defended my psychological wellbeing. That it was questioned in the first place is disturbing.
[Edited 3/27/08 14:17pm]

chocolate1 said:

ty for your insight...and the congrats :wOOt: