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Printablefhqwhgads said: Muse2NOPharaoh said: PS next time photoshop out the original ( 2nd from bottom) ... then again usurp looses its meaning... which brings me back to flight arrangments... You know Mon would support me! Notice how if it dropped a little further it'd be 'done'.   | |
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Muse2NOPharaoh said: ThreadBare said:  I'm well, devoting more time to things that edify, less to unhealthy environments (my recent exit would spin your head. But, alas, Romans 8:28).
And, playing a LOT more music. Trying to do more of that, too. No surprise at all....  strong move. Sometimes, that is it in and of itself with him... Ever thought of that? Just when we think we might be off course we fail to see we aced the test!  Which was exactly what I told one of the leaders! 
backatcha, Sis. Scholar.  | |
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fhqwhgads said: USURPED!
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Muse2NOPharaoh said: Lammastide said: That's an important question. When I came out to my wife there obviously was a long learning curve in achieving a comfortable level of trust in me again. After all, I wasn't exactly who she thought I was for several years of our relationship! I think, though, that my being forthright about myself, laying myself bare, giving assurances I am faithful and actually living up to them offers great confidence. I REALLY like men! I make no attempt to skirt that notion. And I even tell her who I find attractive -- and vice versa. (I have better taste ) But I think I make it clear through action, intimacy, etc. that I appreciate her on levels far above what I feel for any guy. I think that level of transparency and active investment actually builds trust.
I can't possibly take all the credit, though. I know that no matter how noble I present myself after what we went through, our marriage wouldn't at all work without some level of forgiveness and, frankly, faith (on both our parts). She's an amazing woman. I'm very blessed to have her. [Edited 3/22/08 19:53pm] I honestly adore you as person and you well know this. I realize I say this a bit much, but I have always had great respect for honesty and candor. So I am not being false in any sense of the word. My thoughts are wrapped in female security. What guarantee does she have that this will work out long term ( beyond children) ? Is monogamy a part of your agreement? Monogamy is definitely part of our agreement. As for guarantees, who can honestly, truly offer those? All any of us have is our word and our ongoing conduct to show it holds water. Unfortunately, all relationships bear a level of uncertainty. Some lucky bastards like me are graced enough with partners who can endure levels of uncertainty I don't think I could endure were the tables turned. That's profoundly humbling... and it calls me all the more to honor that rare thing I have. I suppose she can have some reassurance because I've made it known that I feel this way. In the end, Muse, I think we must operate as much on faith as anything else in human relationships. We are all so screwed up! I suppose the true task is to take the time and engage the vulnerability it takes to satisfy the sense you've found someone worthy of a share of that faith.
Unfortunately, this is not a science.  I wish I were more of an expert on these things.Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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Lammastide said: Muse2NOPharaoh said: I honestly adore you as person and you well know this. I realize I say this a bit much, but I have always had great respect for honesty and candor. So I am not being false in any sense of the word. My thoughts are wrapped in female security. What guarantee does she have that this will work out long term ( beyond children) ? Is monogamy a part of your agreement? Monogamy is definitely part of our agreement. As for guarantees, who can honestly, truly offer those? All any of us have is our word and our ongoing conduct to show it holds water. Unfortunately, all relationships bear a level of uncertainty. Some lucky bastards like me are graced enough with partners who can endure levels of uncertainty I don't think I could endure were the tables turned. That's profoundly humbling... and it calls me all the more to honor that rare thing I have. I suppose she can have some reassurance because I've made it known that I feel this way. In the end, Muse, I think we must operate as much on faith as anything else in human relationships. We are all so screwed up! I suppose the true task is to take the time and engage the vulnerability it takes to satisfy the sense you've found someone worthy of a share of that faith.
Unfortunately, this is not a science. I wish I were more of an expert on these things.  | |
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Muse2NOPharaoh said: Lammastide said: Monogamy is definitely part of our agreement. As for guarantees, who can honestly, truly offer those? All any of us have is our word and our ongoing conduct to show it holds water. Unfortunately, all relationships bear a level of uncertainty. Some lucky bastards like me are graced enough with partners who can endure levels of uncertainty I don't think I could endure were the tables turned. That's profoundly humbling... and it calls me all the more to honor that rare thing I have. I suppose she can have some reassurance because I've made it known that I feel this way. In the end, Muse, I think we must operate as much on faith as anything else in human relationships. We are all so screwed up! I suppose the true task is to take the time and engage the vulnerability it takes to satisfy the sense you've found someone worthy of a share of that faith.
Unfortunately, this is not a science. I wish I were more of an expert on these things. He's wonderful isn't he?  | |
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Muse2NOPharaoh said: Volitan said: Huh? I mean to say, I am not convinced your position represents insecurity. Maybe. I just mean it seems like she could do so much better than me/ Maybe we can go to the movies and cry together | |
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heybaby said: Muse2NOPharaoh said: He's wonderful isn't he? Oh my yes! I adore him as an individual. To topic however, the piece I was given to study, runs somewhat parallel. The female individual is given the same parameters to work with. The male in question loves her buttttt has an inclination ( in this case) towards other females... He just adores everything they stand for, physically.... She has no guarantees as he exclaims, he is unsure he won't ever succumb to their charms perhaps ... in days to come. She in turn is left to decide what to with this. Is she misgiven to play it down or should she address it? | |
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Volitan said: Muse2NOPharaoh said: I mean to say, I am not convinced your position represents insecurity. Maybe. I just mean it seems like she could do so much better than me/  SHE HAS SELECTED YOU! Perhaps you give away your power as an individual. | |
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Muse2NOPharaoh said: Volitan said: Maybe. I just mean it seems like she could do so much better than me/ SHE HAS SELECTED YOU! Perhaps you give away your power as an individual.True. But she may find someone who is better.  I don't have a chick anymore, but this always worried me in the back of my mind.Maybe we can go to the movies and cry together | |
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Muse2NOPharaoh said: heybaby said: He's wonderful isn't he? Oh my yes! I adore him as an individual. To topic however, the piece I was given to study, runs somewhat parallel. The female individual is given the same parameters to work with. The male in question loves her buttttt has an inclination ( in this case) towards other females... He just adores everything they stand for, physically.... She has no guarantees as he exclaims, he is unsure he won't ever succumb to their charms perhaps ... in days to come. She in turn is left to decide what to with this. Is she misgiven to play it down or should she address it? Although I've been guilty of holding back feelings I think that it is best to address it head on instead of letting it sit and fester. A lot of times I think people play things down (such as this) because they don't want to appear overly dramatic. But if it bothers a woman to have her man looking at another woman something needs to be said. Sometimes the minor things can ruin a relationship if swept under the rug. His reaction to a her sensitivities determines what steps to take. | |
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Volitan said: Muse2NOPharaoh said: SHE HAS SELECTED YOU! Perhaps you give away your power as an individual.True. But she may find someone who is better. I don't have a chick anymore, but this always worried me in the back of my mind.Understood! There is always many someones greater as well as many someones lesser... it becomes relative after awhile. | |
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Lammastide said: Muse2NOPharaoh said: Hence forth the I know you that well....
Great sidebar: You have cause to be less threatened and are comforted in that. Should she have similar confidence? In what way do you you recipicate this? Does she have confidence that you will stay the course? What is your mutual agreement? That's an important question. When I came out to my wife there obviously was a long learning curve in achieving a comfortable level of trust in me again. After all, I wasn't exactly who she thought I was for several years of our relationship! I think, though, that my being forthright about myself, laying myself bare, giving assurances I am faithful and actually living up to them offers great confidence. I REALLY like men! I make no attempt to skirt that notion. And I even tell her who I find attractive -- and vice versa. (I have better taste ) But I think I make it clear through action, intimacy, etc. that I appreciate her on levels far above what I feel for any guy. I think that level of transparency and active investment actually builds trust.
I can't possibly take all the credit, though. I know that no matter how noble I present myself after what we went through, our marriage wouldn't at all work without some level of forgiveness and, frankly, faith (on both our parts). She's an amazing woman. I'm very blessed to have her. [Edited 3/22/08 19:53pm] You both sound very lucky and it seems as though you both realise that. Instead of trying to fully understand and pick it apart, you just embrace it and live it. Awesome!!!! We could all learn so much from what you have said on this thread. Thanks for sharing. As for me and my SO looking at other women in public. Well in most cases in my past I have been the one to point out the pretty girl. I normally do not get jealous unless it becomes too obvious and goes to a disrespectful level. I would love to say that I am secure enough in myself to not care at all but I am not. I see other women and I know that there are prettier women out there than me. In all honesty though, I know that men do that and would never kid myself into thinking that I could change someone. We are all human. | |
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ogling....don't care for it
Just taking a look....natural. | |
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Rhondab said: ogling....don't care for it
Just taking a look....natural. I was about to say the same thing. A glance or two is natural. Out and out ogling is disrespectful. Good manners are imperative. |
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CarrieMpls said: Rhondab said: ogling....don't care for it
Just taking a look....natural. I was about to say the same thing. A glance or two is natural. Out and out ogling is disrespectful. Good manners are imperative. I'm like sooooo totally good mannered. You would think I was ABSOLUTELY PERFECT woman! | |
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It doesn't happen with us, so it's a non-issue | |
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I say OFF with their heads.
I mean really? Why are you with someone if you're just checking everyone else out? | |
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CarrieMpls said: Rhondab said: ogling....don't care for it
Just taking a look....natural. I was about to say the same thing. A glance or two is natural. Out and out ogling is disrespectful. Good manners are imperative.  agree | |
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Imago said: CarrieMpls said: I was about to say the same thing. A glance or two is natural. Out and out ogling is disrespectful. Good manners are imperative. I'm like sooooo totally good mannered. You would think I was ABSOLUTELY PERFECT woman! When you're not being crassity crass crass crass. |
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Rhondab said: ogling....don't care for it
Just taking a look....natural. Although, there is an art to ogling... jus' sayin' | |
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CarrieMpls said: Imago said: I'm like sooooo totally good mannered. You would think I was ABSOLUTELY PERFECT woman! When you're not being crassity crass crass crass. | |
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There's being human and being downright rude. If they make their way to get that person's attention then it's a problem. I have always encouraged my partners to be themselves. If he thinks someone is cute he can tell me.
I'm sorry but I think people are lying when they say they don't check other people out when they're in love. They may not be obvious about it but they still do it, and there is nothing wrong with that. Of course, that is just my opinion. MyeternalgrattitudetoPhil&Val.Herman said "We want sweaty truckers at the truck stop! We want cigar puffing men that look like they wanna beat the living daylights out of us" Val"sporking is spooning with benefits" | |
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MIGUELGOMEZ said: There's being human and being downright rude. If they make their way to get that person's attention then it's a problem. I have always encouraged my partners to be themselves. If he thinks someone is cute he can tell me.
I'm sorry but I think people are lying when they say they don't check other people out when they're in love. They may not be obvious about it but they still do it, and there is nothing wrong with that. Of course, that is just my opinion. No, I agree with you. I still maintain there is a stronger inclination to do so in males naturally. Although woman conceal it better, I have a feeling it isn't as strong an urge for us. | |
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Muse2NOPharaoh said: MIGUELGOMEZ said: There's being human and being downright rude. If they make their way to get that person's attention then it's a problem. I have always encouraged my partners to be themselves. If he thinks someone is cute he can tell me.
I'm sorry but I think people are lying when they say they don't check other people out when they're in love. They may not be obvious about it but they still do it, and there is nothing wrong with that. Of course, that is just my opinion. No, I agree with you. I still maintain there is a stronger inclination to do so in males naturally. Although woman conceal it better, I have a feeling it isn't as strong an urge for us. I can't say for all ladies, but I almost never ogle and I'm single. It's few and far between. Friends are always pointing out cute guys to me that I'd never notice if someone didn't say, 'hey, look over there'. |
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CarrieMpls said: Muse2NOPharaoh said: No, I agree with you. I still maintain there is a stronger inclination to do so in males naturally. Although woman conceal it better, I have a feeling it isn't as strong an urge for us. I can't say for all ladies, but I almost never ogle and I'm single. It's few and far between. Friends are always pointing out cute guys to me that I'd never notice if someone didn't say, 'hey, look over there'. Well you know I am like that as well! That aside, I do think the harwiring between the sexs to be different. men are far more visual then we are wouldn't you say? | |
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Muse2NOPharaoh said: CarrieMpls said: I can't say for all ladies, but I almost never ogle and I'm single. It's few and far between. Friends are always pointing out cute guys to me that I'd never notice if someone didn't say, 'hey, look over there'. Well you know I am like that as well! That aside, I do think the harwiring between the sexs to be different. men are far more visual then we are wouldn't you say?Of course. It's my boyfriends who are pointing them out. |
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CarrieMpls said: Muse2NOPharaoh said: Well you know I am like that as well! That aside, I do think the harwiring between the sexs to be different. men are far more visual then we are wouldn't you say?Of course. It's my boyfriends who are pointing them out. Trust me, not all men agree with us. Two guys went toe to toe with me during the debate session. They are wrong however. 
One sited his wife starts it as she always sees them first...  I pointed out she using a preemptive strike method. She damn well knows what type you will note. | |
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violator said: Rhondab said: ogling....don't care for it
Just taking a look....natural. Although, there is an art to ogling... jus' sayin' I'd let you ogle me.  | |
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Rhondab said: violator said: Although, there is an art to ogling... jus' sayin' I'd let you ogle me. Hello you two!  | |
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