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Thread started 03/16/08 4:31pm

Dance

Org moms, what do you think

I was driving along Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley the other day when I spotted a giant billboard that read, “Another child is diagnosed with autism every 20 minutes.” My jaw just dropped.

Further down on Shattuck, I drove past the Marine recruiting center where Code Pink is protesting the war on Iraq. Approximately one million Iraqis as well as almost 4,000 American troops have died in “Bush’s War,” a hecka lot of pointless bloodshed. Oops, my bad. It wasn’t pointless. There was a point to “Bush’s War” - to make money for the oil and weapons industry at the expense of our brave troops, the American taxpayer and the people of Iraq.

So, am I hinting that there might be some sort of connection between these two Shattuck Avenue events? Oh yeah. And the connection is - business. Small-scale death for profit and large-scale death for profit. “It’s not personal. It’s business.” Yet we protest the small-scale version of death-for-profit in Iraq like crazy while we largely ignore or discount the large-scale version of death-for-profit here at home. What’s with that?

We’ve got death in Iraq on a small scale. “Small scale? No way!” Approximately 4,000 American troops have died. And also approximately one million Iraqis are dead. Over a million dead people? Horrible as those numbers are, they may seem at first like a really large number - until you compare them with death on a much larger scale.

Not getting email from BC?

Millions and millions and millions of people both here in America and all over the world have taken to the streets to protest “Bush’s War” - as well they should. It is destroying our economy, our democracy and the ability of our military to respond adequately in case of a real attack on our country.

However, it still aggravates me thoroughly that once every 20 minutes, an American baby’s entire existence is threatened and nobody even seems to notice. Billboards claiming that ”Another child is diagnosed with autism once every 20 minutes” can actually appear on the streets of America and no one even notices this? And if this horrendous rate of decimation applies only to America’s children, then what would the death and disaster rate soar to if one were to include the rest of the world’s population in one’s calculations?

Once every 20 minutes an innocent baby is doomed to a whole lifetime of misery and an early death? And yet there are no massive protests? Don’t you find the contrast between the huge amount of protests against “Bush’s War” and the almost total lack of protest against autism a bit lopsided and strange?

When I was a child, autism was unheard of. Now it is an epidemic claiming untold numbers of lives. What caused the change?

And if America lost 3,000 people on 9-11 and Bush used that as an excuse to attack Iraq, then if we are losing the capabilities of one American child EVERY 20 MINUTES, why doesn’t he attack the cause of autism too? It’s a far greater danger. Why isn’t Bush striking back here as well?

“We can’t do anything because no one knows the causes of autism, Jane.” Yeah but anybody with half a brain can use a little common sense and come up with the causes of “Bush’s War” - all those WMD lies - but nothing has been done about that either. Bush and Cheney still aren’t in jail. But I digress.

For years now, thousands of mothers and pediatricians have claimed that autism was caused by mercury in vaccines given to babies. So the pharmaceutical companies stopped putting mercury in most of their vaccines, several years ago. But it still took them a long time - and probably a couple of court orders - to figure out that you just don’t shoot up babies with mercury (even though mercury did increase the profit margins on vaccines).

There hasn’t been any mercury in most vaccines for a while. However. the billboard I saw that read, “Another child is diagnosed with autism every 20 minutes” was up in public view last week - not last decade. And a pediatrician recently told me that babies still develop autism around the age of 18 months - not when they are freshly newborn, come out of the womb healthy, respond nicely to stimulus and register 9 or 10 on the Apgar scale. These babies do not develop autism before they have their first vaccinations. No. They develop autism only after they have had most of their shots.

Am I saying that the shots themselves are the cause of autism? That’s a pretty heavy-duty statement to make. So I decided to do some research.

First off, I talked with a friend who had raised three healthy children who register in the “genius” category. What did she do right? “I had a wise old pediatrician once,” said the friend, ”and he told me not to vaccinate my kids until they were at least one year old.”

“Because of the mercury?”

“No. Because their fragile little systems simply can’t handle the introduction of that much radical change into their bloodstreams at so young an age....” That sounds plausible. But is it REAL research? So I googled. And I consulted my friend Melinda who knows everything. And I discovered an article that read, “After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.... The claim [was] one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal ‘Vaccine Court’.... The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal). Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism, including: no response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye contact; loss of ‘relatedness’; insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and ‘watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination.’”

Every 20 minutes, America wastes another precious child’s mind due to autism. Think of the costs in terms of medical treatment. Think of the loss in terms of human resources. Think of the anguish and pain for the families of autistic children. “Every 20 minutes....”

But with another child developing autism once every 20 minutes - only since the mass marketing of vaccines for infants and with this link between vaccines and autism appearing to be so obvious, then why haven’t pharmaceutical companies backed off and launched a huge new media campaign such as, “Please Wait to Vaccinate!” They’d still make tons of money, only they’d make it a year later.

“But, Jane,” argued another young mother, “what if in the meantime my baby gets diphtheria and dies?” That would be terrible! But the chances of your baby getting diphtheria and dying in this day and age of antibiotics are going WAY down - while the chances of your baby getting autism are going WAY up. Which one outweighs the other? At this point, I would chose to avoid autism. Diphtheria you can recover from. Autism is for LIFE.

While I was contesting a parking ticket today down at city hall, I ran into another young mother. “Did you get your baby vaccinated,” I asked her while we were waiting in line.

“Yes and no. I did the polio vaccine because once you get polio, you’re in big trouble and can’t get cured. But the tetanus shot? No way! My baby is going to have to be at least a year old and walking before she can step on a rusty nail. And all of the other ones? I figure that if a disease is curable, its vaccine could wait. Plus they have so many vaccines these days that they are always trying to stick needles into my baby. My baby is NOT a pincushion! They even have a vaccination against diarrhea. And hepatitis? Aren’t you supposed to be exposed to that by having sex?”

Good grief. If this mother hadn’t been holding her baby, I woulda given her a high-five!

Then I went to the Berkeley-Albany Bar Association’s monthly luncheon and was telling the attorney next to me over the pasta and poached salmon that there was no autism when I was a child. “Maybe they had another name for it, Jane.” What? Village idiot? Nope. That only happens in Texas. “Or maybe it’s caused by television.” It can’t be caused by television. Eighteen-month old babies don’t watch that many episodes of “Deal or No Deal”.

“But, Jane, why are you so passionate about having babies avoid getting vaccinations?” asked the attorney. When you go to one of these meetings, you always gotta be prepared to get put on the witness stand.

“Well, first of all,” I replied, ”it totally bothers me that every time a drug company wants to make a bit more extra cash, they just dream up yet another reason to stick needles into our babies. They need to get a life and stop hatin’ on babies!”

“And, second, I am passionate about this for personal reasons. Some friends of mine’s baby became autistic about twelve years ago and I have watched the pain and hardship and struggle that autism brought to their lives. The couple ended up in divorce court and the child ended up in a nursing home. And both parents were intelligent and accomplished. Their child could have been a genius. But he ended up being a burden and a heartbreak.” Sigh.

Did I vaccinate my own children? Heck, no. I practiced what I preached. And they turned out fine.

Bottom line? The losses from ”Bush’s War” on Iraq are tragic for sure. But in relation to the far heavier losses being endured by America’s babies, even they pale in comparison. The war on Iraq was a phony war, a war for profit, a ”Bush’s War”. What if the war on our babies is a phony war too? What if autism is caused by vaccines? And what if the drug companies are hiding evidence of this in order to keep the profits rolling in - like they have done in several other cases in the past?

What if the tragedy of autism is just another “Bush’s War”?

And if it is, then why aren’t we protesting this “War” as well? Why aren’t a million mothers out marching in the streets?

PS: Speaking of pushing pills for profit, did anyone else read that article about the phony placebo effect of anti-depressants?

“A study suggesting the widely prescribed antidepressants Prozac, Paxil and Effexor work no better than placebo for most patients who take them does not present an accurate picture of the research as a whole, a leading depression expert says,” according to an article in WebMD Medical News.

“The research analysis included published and previously unpublished data submitted to the FDA by the manufacturers of the three drugs, as well as a fourth, Serzone, which is no longer sold in the U.S.... The researchers concluded that when taken as a whole, the data showed that only a small group of the most severely depressed patients benefited from taking one of the antidepressants.” That’s a hecka lot of profit for just a placebo. 227 million prescriptions were written for anti-depressants in the United States in 2006. And an additional 31 million were written in Great Britain.


A lot of people keep saying this...and others think it's silly to even suggest it...

What do you think?
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Reply #1 posted 03/16/08 4:43pm

One4All4Ever

wow ... I do get the message. Where I am from, apart for the Polio vaccination which we are legally obliged to get, all vaccinations are optional. Speaking for myself, my 3 boys got all their vacs ... I do think that if a disease/illness can be avoided AND the vaccinations don't have too many downsides, I should do it ...

Not doing it just because it would benefit them capitalist pigs in the pharma industry doesn't sound right to me.
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Reply #2 posted 03/16/08 4:49pm

Stymie

My son is autistic. What do you think I think?
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Reply #3 posted 03/16/08 6:37pm

ZombieKitten

Stymie said:

My son is autistic. What do you think I think?

cry hug
I think you would like go over to mr multinational pharmaceuticals house and give them a taste of their own medicine, in fist-form. mad pissed I would, repeatedly.
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Reply #4 posted 03/16/08 7:27pm

Stymie

ZombieKitten said:

Stymie said:

My son is autistic. What do you think I think?

cry hug
I think you would like go over to mr multinational pharmaceuticals house and give them a taste of their own medicine, in fist-form. mad pissed I would, repeatedly.
That would be my only pleasure in this Charlotte. the government is in bed with the phamrs so there is no way in hell that if the link to vaccinations is proven, they would allow the companies to be sued by hundreds of thousands of families.
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Reply #5 posted 03/16/08 7:47pm

purplekisses

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i agree... i have 2 older daughters that are ok but my youngest is autistic..... i believe there is something to genetics and the shots.... she has many food allergies and since she was diagnosed at 2 n a half that was my fist feeling and its been that way ever since.... when the chicken pox vaccine came out i refused to have any of my girls get it... its just a way to make money.... i have a feeling with the federal cases going on now that a lot more will be coming out and we will know a lot more of what the government and these companies have been hiding....
If U don't know someone with Autism....... U will...... April is Autism awareness month.... please get involved....
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Reply #6 posted 03/16/08 7:52pm

ZombieKitten

Stymie said:

ZombieKitten said:


cry hug
I think you would like go over to mr multinational pharmaceuticals house and give them a taste of their own medicine, in fist-form. mad pissed I would, repeatedly.
That would be my only pleasure in this Charlotte. the government is in bed with the phamrs so there is no way in hell that if the link to vaccinations is proven, they would allow the companies to be sued by hundreds of thousands of families.

I know sad
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Reply #7 posted 03/16/08 7:53pm

RodeoSchro

Stymie said:

My son is autistic. What do you think I think?


I think I want to hug
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Reply #8 posted 03/16/08 8:02pm

Stymie

purplekisses said:

i agree... i have 2 older daughters that are ok but my youngest is autistic..... i believe there is something to genetics and the shots.... she has many food allergies and since she was diagnosed at 2 n a half that was my fist feeling and its been that way ever since.... when the chicken pox vaccine came out i refused to have any of my girls get it... its just a way to make money.... i have a feeling with the federal cases going on now that a lot more will be coming out and we will know a lot more of what the government and these companies have been hiding....
I hate that there is no option NOT to vaccinate your children. you can't even get into public schools here without proof.
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Reply #9 posted 03/16/08 8:33pm

ZombieKitten

Stymie said:

purplekisses said:

i agree... i have 2 older daughters that are ok but my youngest is autistic..... i believe there is something to genetics and the shots.... she has many food allergies and since she was diagnosed at 2 n a half that was my fist feeling and its been that way ever since.... when the chicken pox vaccine came out i refused to have any of my girls get it... its just a way to make money.... i have a feeling with the federal cases going on now that a lot more will be coming out and we will know a lot more of what the government and these companies have been hiding....
I hate that there is no option NOT to vaccinate your children. you can't even get into public schools here without proof.

Here I think you just have to provide a letter of exemption - my friend didn't immunise any of her 4 kids and they go to a state school (her son nearly died of complications from whooping cough).
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Reply #10 posted 03/17/08 12:47am

meow85

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Has anyone actually proven a link between autism and vaccinations? And better yet -how would vaccinations cause autism? Sure, autism is more commonly diagnosed now than it was 40 years ago, but so is just about everything else thanks to advances in technology and diagnostic practices. And it's also fact that a great number of disorders are wrongly or over diagnosed.

Autism was not unheard of 40 years ago -it was just rarely labelled as such. A good look at any given group of 40-something people shows the same behaviour patterns as young people, so logically there can't have been a surge. Hell, it was rarely diagnosed even 20 years ago -well enough into the public vaccination stage game that it should have started to appear in greater numbers.


I know it's a touchy subject for a lot of people, especially for parents and relatives of children with autism, but I'm asking an honest question:

Has there ever been a proven link between the two, or is it a case of willfuly forgetting on the part of certain groups that correlation is not necessarily causation?

IMO, the more likely culprits for this surge in autism, ADD and ADHD, etc. would be more environmental pollutants every year, poorer choices in food and chemicals on the part of the expectant parents (fathers' choices too, have been proven to have an affect on their offpsring, even pre-birth. Smoking and drinking cause gimp sperm.) and genetics maybe in combination with vaccinations, than the shots alone. That's too easy a culprit to just be it, especially given that most children in North America are given vaccinations. If they were the sole cause, then most children would have autism.
[Edited 3/17/08 0:48am]
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #11 posted 03/17/08 12:47am

meow85

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Who vaccinates a brand new baby, anyway? confuse
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #12 posted 03/17/08 9:36am

Dance

meow85 said:

Has anyone actually proven a link between autism and vaccinations? And better yet -how would vaccinations cause autism? Sure, autism is more commonly diagnosed now than it was 40 years ago, but so is just about everything else thanks to advances in technology and diagnostic practices. And it's also fact that a great number of disorders are wrongly or over diagnosed.

Autism was not unheard of 40 years ago -it was just rarely labelled as such. A good look at any given group of 40-something people shows the same behaviour patterns as young people, so logically there can't have been a surge. Hell, it was rarely diagnosed even 20 years ago -well enough into the public vaccination stage game that it should have started to appear in greater numbers.


I know it's a touchy subject for a lot of people, especially for parents and relatives of children with autism, but I'm asking an honest question:

Has there ever been a proven link between the two, or is it a case of willfuly forgetting on the part of certain groups that correlation is not necessarily causation?

IMO, the more likely culprits for this surge in autism, ADD and ADHD, etc. would be more environmental pollutants every year, poorer choices in food and chemicals on the part of the expectant parents (fathers' choices too, have been proven to have an affect on their offpsring, even pre-birth. Smoking and drinking cause gimp sperm.) and genetics maybe in combination with vaccinations, than the shots alone. That's too easy a culprit to just be it, especially given that most children in North America are given vaccinations. If they were the sole cause, then most children would have autism.
[Edited 3/17/08 0:48am]



After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.... The claim [was] one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal ‘Vaccine Court’.... The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal). Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism, including: no response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye contact; loss of ‘relatedness’; insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and ‘watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination.’”


I'm not saying that's definitely the cause here, but I don't think it's ridiculous either.

I mean it's not like this is new.

How many times have we been here where companies will deny this stuff forever and then the problem is too big to ignore or hide?
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Reply #13 posted 03/17/08 10:20am

Teacher

I have only read up on the vaccination vs children diagnosed with autism in the US because it interests me, I've worked with high-functioning autistic children/youth and partly because. What I haven't been able to find anything on is WHY the ratio of autistic children is so very much higher in the US than in the rest of the world? How do vaccinations differ between the continents, in content, number of shots, "ingredients" and so on? The ratios ARE higher all over the world and that's of course because there are better diagnostic methods and definitions now but it doesn't cover it by even a tenth. If the reasons for the increase were food or pollution related this would show a proportionate increase, at least between for example the US and Europe where the living conditions are pretty much the same. So I don't buy that but I'm willing to believe that innoculations are the culprit. Why? Because "scientists" will do (almost) anything to make their "research" go forward. Because pharmaceutical companies use as little money as possible (=low quality components) for maximum profit (=lobbying in Washington for mandatory innoculations and then selling it to the states).

I can't even imagine what mothers like Ivy and Kris go through so I won't say anything more but... hug rose
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Reply #14 posted 03/17/08 10:53am

morningsong

I'd just like to say that we've noticed and we are mad as hell. People like Toni Braxton, Holly Robinson-Peete and many others who are using their status to get this info out into the public. Much love to Stymie and purplekisses for you struggle in dealing with this on a daily basis. Seems to be a lot of mixed messages about whether vaccinations are the culprit, but either way it's a catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don't, either way you leave you child exposed. Is there a right choice or decision over the long run, do you just learn to live with the discisions you make?
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Reply #15 posted 03/17/08 12:40pm

purplekisses

avatar

morningsong said:

I'd just like to say that we've noticed and we are mad as hell. People like Toni Braxton, Holly Robinson-Peete and many others who are using their status to get this info out into the public. Much love to Stymie and purplekisses for you struggle in dealing with this on a daily basis. Seems to be a lot of mixed messages about whether vaccinations are the culprit, but either way it's a catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don't, either way you leave you child exposed. Is there a right choice or decision over the long run, do you just learn to live with the discisions you make?


first of all we always trust our doctors and when they recommend that we do for our "children" 2nd here in the US you have to have all the shots in order for your child to be in school... so that leaves parents with little choice to not do it... if i would have known more about the issues and know that i could have waited at least another yr on some of the shots i would have done it in a heartbeat... the key thing is this needs to more out to the public more so that parents are aware so they can make the choice and that they are not like me and just assume that the doctor is always right... i have been lucky to have my daughter get the things that she needs to help her progress and maybe a member of society when she is an adult... unfortunately in many states there are not good programs let alone early diagnosis for some kids until they are of school age .... the earlier a child is diagnosed the better... most programs are federally funded but its still not enough... parents are their child's voice.... my biggest concern is that she does get to the level that she is "normal" and can take care of herself when i am gone....
If U don't know someone with Autism....... U will...... April is Autism awareness month.... please get involved....
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Reply #16 posted 03/17/08 1:36pm

Teacher

The whole notion of innoculations being mandatory or you can't put your child in school is insane! Everybody knows those shots never have a 100% protection so your child might get sick anyway so it's stupid! WTF Big Brother deciding what you can and can't do with your child, I can't get my head around this.

So, do you in the US know people who home school their children because of this issue? From everything I've ever heard that just might be the one reason I accept. This is mind boggling.
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Reply #17 posted 03/17/08 1:49pm

purplekisses

avatar

Teacher said:

The whole notion of innoculations being mandatory or you can't put your child in school is insane! Everybody knows those shots never have a 100% protection so your child might get sick anyway so it's stupid! WTF Big Brother deciding what you can and can't do with your child, I can't get my head around this.

So, do you in the US know people who home school their children because of this issue? From everything I've ever heard that just might be the one reason I accept. This is mind boggling.


i think with home schooling there are various reasons... i know that a lot has to do with religion since some of them do not belive in shots based on their faith...
If U don't know someone with Autism....... U will...... April is Autism awareness month.... please get involved....
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Reply #18 posted 03/17/08 1:54pm

Teacher

purplekisses said:

Teacher said:

The whole notion of innoculations being mandatory or you can't put your child in school is insane! Everybody knows those shots never have a 100% protection so your child might get sick anyway so it's stupid! WTF Big Brother deciding what you can and can't do with your child, I can't get my head around this.

So, do you in the US know people who home school their children because of this issue? From everything I've ever heard that just might be the one reason I accept. This is mind boggling.


i think with home schooling there are various reasons... i know that a lot has to do with religion since some of them do not belive in shots based on their faith...


That's true, but I don't believe in that either since having different religions and going to the same school anyways works fine here for example. It's a damn crying shame that the US is such a divided country that not all people are regarded equally, especially considering WHY the country was founded and the declaration of independence. You shouldn't have to home school your children cos you are of a small(ish) religion or because you don't want your children to get innoculated. Obviously with religion you'd want to have your child in Sunday School or the equivalent but that doesn't change anything...at least not here. sad

Edit: I think it's fine for ADULT people to refuse medical treatment but I think it should be illegal to do the same to your kids. Now, I happen to believe that most innoculations are SHIT so I wouldn't want my kids to have them either, but other potentially life saving stuff. I think it should be illegal to murder your child by proxy that way. twocents This is not a discussion about religion though so no more. zipped
[Edited 3/17/08 13:56pm]
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Reply #19 posted 03/17/08 2:27pm

illimack

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As I am currently pregnant and will give birth in approx 2 months, I have been scouring the internet for news on vaccines and autism. I am convinced that there is some connection and I will not get my babies vaccinated.
Did you know that they are now vaccinating newborns against Hep B before they leave the frickin hospital? Hep B is from sex and dirty needles. Why the hell would a newborn baby need that vaccine??? They can kiss my black ass with that shit. The Hep B vaccine had no market,because the target group didn't really give a rat's ass about their health. Somehow, the pharmaceutical companies conviced the government to give that untested shit to newborns.
**************************************************

Pull ya cell phone out and call yo next of kin...we 'bout to get funky......2,3 come on ya'll
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Reply #20 posted 03/17/08 2:40pm

Teacher

illimack said:

As I am currently pregnant and will give birth in approx 2 months, I have been scouring the internet for news on vaccines and autism. I am convinced that there is some connection and I will not get my babies vaccinated.
Did you know that they are now vaccinating newborns against Hep B before they leave the frickin hospital? Hep B is from sex and dirty needles. Why the hell would a newborn baby need that vaccine??? They can kiss my black ass with that shit. The Hep B vaccine had no market,because the target group didn't really give a rat's ass about their health. Somehow, the pharmaceutical companies conviced the government to give that untested shit to newborns.



Good for you! Stand up for what you believe. Money makes the world go round you know but you can make it do a detour around you and your baby. rose Congrats on the baby and the best for the rest of your pregnancy!
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Reply #21 posted 03/17/08 4:20pm

ZombieKitten

meow85 said:

Who vaccinates a brand new baby, anyway? confuse

here they start round one at 3 months sad
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Reply #22 posted 03/17/08 6:38pm

illimack

avatar

ZombieKitten said:

meow85 said:

Who vaccinates a brand new baby, anyway? confuse

here they start round one at 3 months sad



In California, Hep B vaccine is recommended within 12 hours from birth...before mom and baby are even released from the hospital. No studies on the effects of this vaccine on newborns has been done. Not one. Hep B is from sex or infected needles. Why give it to a newborn.

Children in Cali require 36 vaccinations before entering school. Even it it's not the mercury, these vaccines still have aluminum, formaldahyde, chicken and monkey DNA and sorts of crazy shit. I had my older children vaccinated, but that was 18 yrs ago. Only 9 shots were required and I don't think the Hep B vaccine was even invented. This time around, I'm taking a religious exemption. I've read one too many reports from parents saying their children changed after receiving so many shots.
**************************************************

Pull ya cell phone out and call yo next of kin...we 'bout to get funky......2,3 come on ya'll
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Reply #23 posted 03/17/08 8:05pm

ZombieKitten

illimack said:

ZombieKitten said:


here they start round one at 3 months sad



In California, Hep B vaccine is recommended within 12 hours from birth...before mom and baby are even released from the hospital. No studies on the effects of this vaccine on newborns has been done. Not one. Hep B is from sex or infected needles. Why give it to a newborn.

Children in Cali require 36 vaccinations before entering school. Even it it's not the mercury, these vaccines still have aluminum, formaldahyde, chicken and monkey DNA and sorts of crazy shit. I had my older children vaccinated, but that was 18 yrs ago. Only 9 shots were required and I don't think the Hep B vaccine was even invented. This time around, I'm taking a religious exemption. I've read one too many reports from parents saying their children changed after receiving so many shots.


I've just pulled out my sons certificate,
I tell a lie, they start at 2 months. By age 4 he will have had 18 vaccinations.
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Reply #24 posted 03/18/08 6:22pm

meow85

avatar

Dance said:

meow85 said:

Has anyone actually proven a link between autism and vaccinations? And better yet -how would vaccinations cause autism? Sure, autism is more commonly diagnosed now than it was 40 years ago, but so is just about everything else thanks to advances in technology and diagnostic practices. And it's also fact that a great number of disorders are wrongly or over diagnosed.

Autism was not unheard of 40 years ago -it was just rarely labelled as such. A good look at any given group of 40-something people shows the same behaviour patterns as young people, so logically there can't have been a surge. Hell, it was rarely diagnosed even 20 years ago -well enough into the public vaccination stage game that it should have started to appear in greater numbers.


I know it's a touchy subject for a lot of people, especially for parents and relatives of children with autism, but I'm asking an honest question:

Has there ever been a proven link between the two, or is it a case of willfuly forgetting on the part of certain groups that correlation is not necessarily causation?

IMO, the more likely culprits for this surge in autism, ADD and ADHD, etc. would be more environmental pollutants every year, poorer choices in food and chemicals on the part of the expectant parents (fathers' choices too, have been proven to have an affect on their offpsring, even pre-birth. Smoking and drinking cause gimp sperm.) and genetics maybe in combination with vaccinations, than the shots alone. That's too easy a culprit to just be it, especially given that most children in North America are given vaccinations. If they were the sole cause, then most children would have autism.
[Edited 3/17/08 0:48am]



After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.... The claim [was] one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal ‘Vaccine Court’.... The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal). Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism, including: no response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye contact; loss of ‘relatedness’; insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and ‘watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination.’”


I'm not saying that's definitely the cause here, but I don't think it's ridiculous either.

I mean it's not like this is new.

How many times have we been here where companies will deny this stuff forever and then the problem is too big to ignore or hide?


Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not impossible. And God knows how many companies have knowingly fucked up peoples' lives forever with certain drugs and medical treatments. I'm just asking if and how it's been proven that there's a link between vaccinations and autism.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #25 posted 03/18/08 7:54pm

pearle

meow85 said:

Dance said:



I'm not saying that's definitely the cause here, but I don't think it's ridiculous either.

I mean it's not like this is new.

How many times have we been here where companies will deny this stuff forever and then the problem is too big to ignore or hide?


Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not impossible. And God knows how many companies have knowingly fucked up peoples' lives forever with certain drugs and medical treatments. I'm just asking if and how it's been proven that there's a link between vaccinations and autism.


There is a book available....The Vaccine Guide by Randall Neustaedter that gives a fairly unbiased view on the effectivness vs. the risks of vaccinations for children and adults.
If I had it to do over again, I would have let my children be vaccinated even less than they were.
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Reply #26 posted 03/18/08 8:11pm

meow85

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pearle said:

meow85 said:



Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not impossible. And God knows how many companies have knowingly fucked up peoples' lives forever with certain drugs and medical treatments. I'm just asking if and how it's been proven that there's a link between vaccinations and autism.


There is a book available....The Vaccine Guide by Randall Neustaedter that gives a fairly unbiased view on the effectivness vs. the risks of vaccinations for children and adults.
If I had it to do over again, I would have let my children be vaccinated even less than they were.

Fair enough.

I've heard of the book and I've heard a lot of talk about it, both praising and criticising it. A lot of people complain it's wirtten with an obvious bias and the statistics used are misrepresented.

I think a valid question in all this though, was that mentioned above by Teacher. Why are U.S. autism rates so much higher than other countries, expecially when there are other western nations that vaccinate more often and against more diseases than the U.S. does? I just don't think vaccinations alone are the culprit, though they certainly can be a contributing factor. It's got to be in conjunction with something else.
[Edited 3/18/08 20:14pm]
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Reply #27 posted 03/18/08 8:55pm

pearle

meow85 said:

pearle said:



There is a book available....The Vaccine Guide by Randall Neustaedter that gives a fairly unbiased view on the effectivness vs. the risks of vaccinations for children and adults.
If I had it to do over again, I would have let my children be vaccinated even less than they were.

Fair enough.

I've heard of the book and I've heard a lot of talk about it, both praising and criticising it. A lot of people complain it's wirtten with an obvious bias and the statistics used are misrepresented.

I think a valid question in all this though, was that mentioned above by

Teacher. Why are U.S. autism rates so much higher than other countries, expecially when there are other western nations that vaccinate more often and against more diseases than the U.S. does? I just don't think vaccinations alone are the culprit, though they certainly can be a contributing factor. It's got to be in conjunction with something else.
[Edited 3/18/08 20:14pm]



Oh, absolutely. There are lots of other factors, such as flouridation of the water supply and mercury filled dental restorations, toxic food supply, genetics. Some people are certainly more sensitive to these things than others.
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