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A Questionnaire for all the believers out there 1. If you believe the sacred stories and interpretations of your own religion, how do you think people of other faiths came to be just as convinced as you are that their stories and interpretations are the ones that are true and valid? For instance, do you think their ancient prophets or religious figures simply hallucinated when they thought God was talking to them?
2. If you believe that other people's faiths are built on myths, wishful thinking, philosophy and a bit of craziness, would you call this phenomenon rather endemic, given that it is supposed that have happened in every case except your own faith? Why do you think your own faith escaped this seemingly universal tendency to invent, mythify and spiritualize? 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"? 4. If you answered "no" to the last question, what would be a world without "god" in the pre-scientific era, when people could not explain natural phenomenons like thunder and earthquakes? (I'm personally betting on imagining giant beasts burried in the ground and fire breathing birds making a lot of noise in the background...oh wait a minute, many primitive religions incorporated mythic animals...) | |
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Great questions, Aero. I would answer, but I simply have faith in God and don't really think about how or why too often. Hopefully this will bring about a good discussion!  | |
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Aerogram...
Christianity and all religions have been retold so many times. something bigger then I is a participant in evolution i dare not disregard the many equations that caculate a "God" | |
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AzureStar said: Great questions, Aero. I would answer, but I simply have faith in God and don't really think about how or why too often. Hopefully this will bring about a good discussion!
You just made everyone on here think that you are a chrisitian again... tsk... tsk... You NEVER explain that your beliefs have absolutely NOTHING to do with the bible and are VERY far from christianity... Ambiguous girl... But I still  ya!SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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DORA said: Aerogram...
Christianity and all religions have been retold so many times. something bigger then I is a participant in evolution i dare not disregard the many equations that caculate a "God" For sure, many people believe that God simply manifested itself in different ways to different people, but why would God say different things to different people and assume different guises, ending up with horrible religious wars as a result of a badly designed communication plan? | |
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Aerogram said: 1. If you believe the sacred stories and interpretations of your own religion, how do you think people of other faiths came to be just as convinced as you are that their stories and interpretations are the ones that are true and valid? For instance, do you think their ancient prophets or religious figures simply hallucinated when they thought God was talking to them?
***Religion is deeply rooted in human nature, extending to all levels of economic status and educational backgrounds. Research confirms that man is God-conscious. Individuals may be atheists...but entire nations are not. Mankind's search for God is more the common experience in every culture and every age. It should not surprise us that all do not come to the same conclusions at the same time. 2. If you believe that other people's faiths are built on myths, wishful thinking, philosophy and a bit of craziness, would you call this phenomenon rather endemic, given that it is supposed that have happened in every case except your own faith? Why do you think your own faith escaped this seemingly universal tendency to invent, mythify and spiritualize? ***I don't believe this to be the case at all. Is this the idea you have of individuals adhering to different faiths? 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"? ***If there were no God as you believe, I do not think that mankind would have invented God. I do not think the "need" to connect to a higher being is from the contrivance of man. In another word...NO. This idea of God occurs to persons who have not been indoctrinated to believe. 4. If you answered "no" to the last question, what would be a world without "god" in the pre-scientific era, when people could not explain natural phenomenons like thunder and earthquakes? (I'm personally betting on imagining giant beasts burried in the ground and fire breathing birds making a lot of noise in the background...oh wait a minute, many primitive religions incorporated mythic animals...) ***There is no such thing as a pre-scientific era. There has always been science. It has taken man some time to discover the realities that were already in place when he came to be on the face of the earth. The Bible, for example, spoke of the earth being round when scientists were still thinking it was flat. Remember when "scientists" believed in and taught spontaneous generation... The Bible never taught that matter came from nothing. Remember when "scientist" thought that the earth was the center of the universe. The Bible never taught that. There is much accurate science in the Bible. If man were merely the result of accidental groupings of protien molecules and nucleic acids, what accounts for those accidents resulting in the development of a love of music and art and beauty? What would explain why such accidents of nature would then turn and search for its Creator? So...how's everybody doing? | |
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SensualMelody said: 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"?
***If there were no God as you believe, I do not think that mankind would have invented God. I do not think the "need" to connect to a higher being is from the contrivance of man. In another word...NO. This idea of God occurs to persons who have not been indoctrinated to believe. Oh, come on! This is unrealistic. Every 2 bit tribe on the face of this earth has its version of "God". Of course man would invent "God". He invented "luck" and "fate" didnt he? When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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SensualMelody said: Aerogram said: 1. If you believe the sacred stories and interpretations of your own religion, how do you think people of other faiths came to be just as convinced as you are that their stories and interpretations are the ones that are true and valid? For instance, do you think their ancient prophets or religious figures simply hallucinated when they thought God was talking to them?
***Religion is deeply rooted in human nature, extending to all levels of economic status and educational backgrounds. Research confirms that man is God-conscious. Individuals may be atheists...but entire nations are not. Mankind's search for God is more the common experience in every culture and every age. It should not surprise us that all do not come to the same conclusions at the same time. ---¨*** Research doesn't confirm that man is god-conscious, it confirms that men has a capacity for spirituality, a part of the brain devoted to it. Some people have even suffered brain injuries that made them feel "God" with incredible intensity all day long. I'm familiar with the theory that God must exist because mankind has been spiritual and religious throughout history. However, I see this in a very different way. Even if you assume that we're all searching for God, what to make of the sacredness of the different stories, teachings, etc.? The fundamentalists of each faith are encouraged to believe in their holy books or stories as "truth". If it's all "God", why would He influence one faith in that direction and another in another? What is really "sacred"? It's certainly not all neatly compatible, is it? 2. If you believe that other people's faiths are built on myths, wishful thinking, philosophy and a bit of craziness, would you call this phenomenon rather endemic, given that it is supposed that have happened in every case except your own faith? Why do you think your own faith escaped this seemingly universal tendency to invent, mythify and spiritualize? ***I don't believe this to be the case at all. Is this the idea you have of individuals adhering to different faiths? ---¨*** Afraid so, and to paraphrase you, research does prove that man has a capacity for spirituality and myth. 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"? ***If there were no God as you believe, I do not think that mankind would have invented God. I do not think the "need" to connect to a higher being is from the contrivance of man. In another word...NO. This idea of God occurs to persons who have not been indoctrinated to believe. ---¨*** Not surprisingly at all, given the above mentionned research. I strongly disagree. 4. If you answered "no" to the last question, what would be a world without "god" in the pre-scientific era, when people could not explain natural phenomenons like thunder and earthquakes? (I'm personally betting on imagining giant beasts burried in the ground and fire breathing birds making a lot of noise in the background...oh wait a minute, many primitive religions incorporated mythic animals...) ***There is no such thing as a pre-scientific era. There has always been science. It has taken man some time to discover the realities that were already in place when he came to be on the face of the earth. The Bible, for example, spoke of the earth being round when scientists were still thinking it was flat. Remember when "scientists" believed in and taught spontaneous generation... The Bible never taught that matter came from nothing. Remember when "scientist" thought that the earth was the center of the universe. The Bible never taught that. There is much accurate science in the Bible. If man were merely the result of accidental groupings of protien molecules and nucleic acids, what accounts for those accidents resulting in the development of a love of music and art and beauty? What would explain why such accidents of nature would then turn and search for its Creator? ---¨*** There's a pre-scientific era. You simply can't deny that there was a time when mankind did not know the underlying science of many phenomenons, especially when you consider primitive man. By the way, it seems to me these last few references to the Bible containing science are a bit contradictory, given that you just said we're all searching for God in our way, and yet you obviously believe that your own faith has the right answers. Which takes us back to my initial questions... [This message was edited Wed Oct 23 19:19:14 PDT 2002 by Aerogram] | |
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God did not create religion. It is the work of a more hideous creature, and a method still in use today -- divide & conquer. As long as we are divided based on religious faiths (or non faiths) we will always be vunerable to the manipulations of evil men, as is evident by current world affairs. But that's just my humble opinion. "Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!" | |
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SweeTea said: God did not create religion. It is the work of a more hideous creature, and a method still in use today -- divide & conquer. As long as we are divided based on religious faiths (or non faiths) we will always be vunerable to the manipulations of evil men, as is evident by current world affairs. But that's just my humble opinion.
But even before mankind had given a thought to formalizing spiritual experience into religion and cult, the act of seeking God must have been pretty basic in the form of wishing and hoping. I say that because even I, an atheist, sometimes find myself thinking that I can help matters by seeking some kind of supernatural intervention. I imagine primitive man in dire situations in his fight for survival, having pretty much the same thoughts -- that maybe if he wishes, or incant, or call for some intervention, it will finally stop raining, or start raining, or the hunt will be a big success. That type of reasoning is pretty basic, but lend itself to the creation of a more formal spiritual experience (not necessarily a full-fledged religion' but at least a loose system). [This message was edited Wed Oct 23 21:03:54 PDT 2002 by Aerogram] | |
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Aerogram said: 1. If you believe the sacred stories and interpretations of your own religion, how do you think people of other faiths came to be just as convinced as you are that their stories and interpretations are the ones that are true and valid? For instance, do you think their ancient prophets or religious figures simply hallucinated when they thought God was talking to them?
***I believe in SOME of the sacred stories and interpretaions. I do not believe one religion to be any more true or false then the next - religions are based on Man's interpretations, beliefs and explanations of things not evident and unknowning. Some people may have hallucinated God, but I believe most were truthful. 2. If you believe that other people's faiths are built on myths, wishful thinking, philosophy and a bit of craziness, would you call this phenomenon rather endemic, given that it is supposed that have happened in every case except your own faith? Why do you think your own faith escaped this seemingly universal tendency to invent, mythify and spiritualize? *** I don't believe this. 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"? *** Yes. Mankind has always needed the comfort of explaining the unknown. 4. If you answered "no" to the last question, what would be a world without "god" in the pre-scientific era, when people could not explain natural phenomenons like thunder and earthquakes? (I'm personally betting on imagining giant beasts burried in the ground and fire breathing birds making a lot of noise in the background...oh wait a minute, many primitive religions incorporated mythic animals...) *** Well, I did answer yes, but you need to explain 'pre-scientific era'. Man has always had science, which is just the study of it's natural environment. I believe you are just refering to the period when Man could actually prove, rightly or wrongly, theories of the surrounding world and universe. | |
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Supernatural intervention works for me. | |
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Aerogram said: 1. If you believe the sacred stories and interpretations of your own religion, how do you think people of other faiths came to be just as convinced as you are that their stories and interpretations are the ones that are true and valid? For instance, do you think their ancient prophets or religious figures simply hallucinated when they thought God was talking to them?
Many paths to one Truth. 2. If you believe that other people's faiths are built on myths, wishful thinking, philosophy and a bit of craziness, would you call this phenomenon rather endemic, given that it is supposed that have happened in every case except your own faith? Why do you think your own faith escaped this seemingly universal tendency to invent, mythify and spiritualize?
I think a little bit of all that occurs in each faith. Your second question is leading, and therefore I will not answer it. 
3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"?
People don't come up with the idea of God, Whether you believe or not, He manifests himself in the trees, the air, the weather, people, animals...all His creation. This creation cannot be defined by a "Big Bang." 4. If you answered "no" to the last question, what would be a world without "god" in the pre-scientific era, when people could not explain natural phenomenons like thunder and earthquakes? (I'm personally betting on imagining giant beasts burried in the ground and fire breathing birds making a lot of noise in the background...oh wait a minute, many primitive religions incorporated mythic animals...)
I don't understand the question. Please make it clearer. | |
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bkw said: Of course man would invent "God". He invented "luck" and "fate" didnt he? God does not use fate and luck. He does not draw a Chance card because this is not a game. We have free will...nothing is fixed or predestined. Some choose an awful path, and that is their choice.. Look at yourself, you choose not to believe, BUT...you were given that choice.  | |
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Aerogram said: 1. If you believe the sacred stories and interpretations of your own religion, how do you think people of other faiths came to be just as convinced as you are that their stories and interpretations are the ones that are true and valid? For instance, do you think their ancient prophets or religious figures simply hallucinated when they thought God was talking to them?
This is why I have no religious affiliation today, even though I went thru all the communion events of Catholicism, up through Holy Matrimony - only to realize soon thereafter that all religions are man-made, as is much of the "rules" regarding God. My ex asked for an "annulment" (which basically disolved the marriage, pretending as though it never happened - therefore "allowing" you to marry again in the church), after we were together for 12 years - the church approved it - which means we "made a mistake", so "we" forgive you, and you can now marry another (and lie to her now). 
I now feel that religion is written/created by groups who were concerned with themselves, and decided to spread the word (much like anything we hear today)...in order to create a community that supported their "way of life." Cults do the same. Much the same as how culture is spread throughout history - taught by one, and handed down through generations - makes me wonder what is left out, or added. Aerogram said: 2. If you believe that other people's faiths are built on myths, wishful thinking, philosophy and a bit of craziness, would you call this phenomenon rather endemic, given that it is supposed that have happened in every case except your own faith? Why do you think your own faith escaped this seemingly universal tendency to invent, mythify and spiritualize?
Ditto, my earlier answer. Aerogram said: 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"?
Yes, I think (just a thought off the top of my head) that in the normal course of nature - there tends to be rank. Rank might be determined by winning over a mate, by a fight which killed the opponent, or even good genes, which produce many offspring...this leads to some form of (it appears to me) "higher" being... in itself, and therefore to me...it would only seem likely that we would easily have witnessed a "miracle" like fire, and consider it divine, or see something thought dead, come to life...things could progress from there. Aerogram said: 4. If you answered "no" to the last question, what would be a world without "god" in the pre-scientific era, when people could not explain natural phenomenons like thunder and earthquakes? (I'm personally betting on imagining giant beasts burried in the ground and fire breathing birds making a lot of noise in the background...oh wait a minute, many primitive religions incorporated mythic animals...)
This is how I now feel about religion and God. Great thought-provoking questions. Thanks Aerogram | |
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bkw said: SensualMelody said: 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"?
***If there were no God as you believe, I do not think that mankind would have invented God. I do not think the "need" to connect to a higher being is from the contrivance of man. In another word...NO. This idea of God occurs to persons who have not been indoctrinated to believe. Oh, come on! This is unrealistic. Every 2 bit tribe on the face of this earth has its version of "God". Of course man would invent "God". He invented "luck" and "fate" didnt he? That's her point, I think, bkw...that since every "2 bit tribe on the face of this earth" has contemplated its own version of God, then it's far more likely to be something instinctual and "built in", and not simply due to an external "need"...I'm pretty sure that if we saw the same characteristics being exhibited within every species of bird in existence, no matter where in the world they lived, we'd chalk it up to something that's part of their DNA, of their chemical make-up...I think Sensual's point is that God placed it there, with everything else we possess..and if there were no God, then it wouldn't exist within us to need a "God"... | |
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1. If you believe the sacred stories and interpretations of your own religion, how do you think people of other faiths came to be just as convinced as you are that their stories and interpretations are the ones that are true and valid? For instance, do you think their ancient prophets or religious figures simply hallucinated when they thought God was talking to them?
My opinion would be that there are underlying realities that exist and make up the foundation of all religions...it's those underlying realities which cause people of differing faiths to believe "their" interpretations as being so true, even if others exist who believe their religious "stories and interpretations" to be true... By the way, though, this question really doesn't have anything to do with being a "believer", but a "follower" of religion...so it really shouldn't be on a questionnaire for "believers", mon ami...
2. If you believe that other people's faiths are built on myths, wishful thinking, philosophy and a bit of craziness, would you call this phenomenon rather endemic, given that it is supposed that have happened in every case except your own faith? Why do you think your own faith escaped this seemingly universal tendency to invent, mythify and spiritualize?
Again, this is a question for "followers" of religions, not for "believers"... But, for the sake of argument, I'll answer...lol...I don't believe other people's faiths are built on myths...I believe all faiths are built on the same foundation, which is that undeniable underlying "truth" which exists beneath all faiths... 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"?
Nope...lol...I think the "need" for the existence of a God is like the "need" for the existence of inhaling and exhaling...or blinking, or yawning, or urinating..lol...it keeps us "healthy"...saying "if there was no God, would we still need to create a God" would be a bit like saying "If we were born without the necessity or ability to take in liquids of anykind, do you think we'd still find a need to attempt to pee?"...lol 4. If you answered "no" to the last question, what would be a world without "god" in the pre-scientific era, when people could not explain natural phenomenons like thunder and earthquakes? (I'm personally betting on imagining giant beasts burried in the ground and fire breathing birds making a lot of noise in the background...oh wait a minute, many primitive religions incorporated mythic animals...)
In that scenario, I think the Earth would be seen as a breathing, living "being"...which, in reality, it pretty much is...and things like earthquakes would be attributed to the Earth being "mad" or "upset"...rainbows would be seen as the Earth being "happy" and "pleased"...of course, none of these phenomenon have anything to do with the earth being happy or pissed off...lol...but that doesn't negate the very real truth we'd reach of the Earth as a "living" thing, as its own living, viable, individual unit which--along with other forces--provides us with a livable habitat, which gives us life...So in short, we'd still come up with a very real and truthful explaination for what occurs around us, we just would get the "why's" wrong... | |
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Aerogram said: 1. If you believe the sacred stories and interpretations of your own religion, how do you think people of other faiths came to be just as convinced as you are that their stories and interpretations are the ones that are true and valid? For instance, do you think their ancient prophets or religious figures simply hallucinated when they thought God was talking to them?
No. I believe that all the major world religions were all real and were from the same God. God came to our planet many different times throughout history with remarkably similar messages for us, according to our needs at that time. Consider this, each Manifestation of God, has prophesised their return, and if you truly read all the books, you will see that all have given "shout-outs" to all the previous ones, and never have they said "He was wrong and go strictly against ME!" They did say that the previous Manifestation's revelation were now 'updated'. When Christ said "I am the way, and there is none other..." he (God) was saying God is the way and no other way would be right. -------------------------------------------------
Something new for your ears and soul. http://artists.mp3s.com/a...dadli.html | |
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This is probably the best questionnaire i have ever seen.
Marvellous. I used to do the Christian, God, Jesus, church nonsense until i was 20 yrs old and then...well, i saw the light! Mankind will do anything to gain power and control, Religion is just one of many, in fact, i'm of the opinion that religion is one of the most corrupt of man's evils. FULL FUCKING STOP! Look at how much fascism stems from religion, ain't nothing positive about that! [This message was edited Thu Oct 24 13:17:57 PDT 2002 by Cloudbuster] | |
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Cloudbuster said: Religion is just one of many, in fact, i'm of the opinion that religion is one of the most corrupt of man's evils. FULL FUCKING STOP!
Look at how much fascism stems from religion, ain't nothing positive about that! But, please do not stereotype people who believe personally in Christ as "fascists, evil, or corrupt", because I don't believe in "religion" either, but I still have a personal relationship with God that I do not force upon others. | |
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wellbeyond said: bkw said: SensualMelody said: 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"?
***If there were no God as you believe, I do not think that mankind would have invented God. I do not think the "need" to connect to a higher being is from the contrivance of man. In another word...NO. This idea of God occurs to persons who have not been indoctrinated to believe. Oh, come on! This is unrealistic. Every 2 bit tribe on the face of this earth has its version of "God". Of course man would invent "God". He invented "luck" and "fate" didnt he? That's her point, I think, bkw...that since every "2 bit tribe on the face of this earth" has contemplated its own version of God, then it's far more likely to be something instinctual and "built in", and not simply due to an external "need"...I'm pretty sure that if we saw the same characteristics being exhibited within every species of bird in existence, no matter where in the world they lived, we'd chalk it up to something that's part of their DNA, of their chemical make-up...I think Sensual's point is that God placed it there, with everything else we possess..and if there were no God, then it wouldn't exist within us to need a "God"... People all over the world once believed in their heart that the Earth was flat. What could be more instinctual than thinking that was seems flat can't be round? So right there, the argument that if a belief is widely held and seemingly instinctive, then it must be true... doesn't work. | |
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Aerogram said: wellbeyond said: bkw said: SensualMelody said: 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"?
***If there were no God as you believe, I do not think that mankind would have invented God. I do not think the "need" to connect to a higher being is from the contrivance of man. In another word...NO. This idea of God occurs to persons who have not been indoctrinated to believe. Oh, come on! This is unrealistic. Every 2 bit tribe on the face of this earth has its version of "God". Of course man would invent "God". He invented "luck" and "fate" didnt he? That's her point, I think, bkw...that since every "2 bit tribe on the face of this earth" has contemplated its own version of God, then it's far more likely to be something instinctual and "built in", and not simply due to an external "need"...I'm pretty sure that if we saw the same characteristics being exhibited within every species of bird in existence, no matter where in the world they lived, we'd chalk it up to something that's part of their DNA, of their chemical make-up...I think Sensual's point is that God placed it there, with everything else we possess..and if there were no God, then it wouldn't exist within us to need a "God"... People all over the world once believed in their heart that the Earth was flat. What could be more instinctual than thinking that was seems flat can't be round? So right there, the argument that if a belief is widely held and seemingly instinctive, then it must be true... doesn't work. I wasn't talking about merely a belief or a mispercieved visual observation, but an instinctual desire to believe in a "God"...not to mention that over the years of human existence, certain observations that were commonly shared in most cultures have all but faded from existence...yet the belief in God still remains extremely strong today, in all walks of life and in people of all intelligence levels and backgrounds and cultures and socio-economic situations...so the "flat earth" beliefs and a belief in God aren't quite the best comparisons to use... | |
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JDODSON said: Cloudbuster said: Religion is just one of many, in fact, i'm of the opinion that religion is one of the most corrupt of man's evils. FULL FUCKING STOP!
Look at how much fascism stems from religion, ain't nothing positive about that! But, please do not stereotype people who believe personally in Christ as "fascists, evil, or corrupt", because I don't believe in "religion" either, but I still have a personal relationship with God that I do not force upon others. No offense was meant to the individual, just the entire structure. I believe in good, that is the way forward. God and the Devil are the pretty much the words good and evil. People have just personified the forces of good and evil to scare, control and oppress people. That's only my opinion but i believe it to be the truth. It's almost TOO obvious not to be. Peace x | |
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wellbeyond said: 1. If you believe the sacred stories and interpretations of your own religion, how do you think people of other faiths came to be just as convinced as you are that their stories and interpretations are the ones that are true and valid? For instance, do you think their ancient prophets or religious figures simply hallucinated when they thought God was talking to them?
My opinion would be that there are underlying realities that exist and make up the foundation of all religions...it's those underlying realities which cause people of differing faiths to believe "their" interpretations as being so true, even if others exist who believe their religious "stories and interpretations" to be true... *** lol... So, underlying realities? Why is everything spiritual seemingly always a big mystery that's under stuff? That is the beauty of faith, I guess. By the way, though, this question really doesn't have anything to do with being a "believer", but a "follower" of religion...so it really shouldn't be on a questionnaire for "believers", mon ami...
*** No, these are really questions for believers, especially those with fundamentalist views. 2. If you believe that other people's faiths are built on myths, wishful thinking, philosophy and a bit of craziness, would you call this phenomenon rather endemic, given that it is supposed that have happened in every case except your own faith? Why do you think your own faith escaped this seemingly universal tendency to invent, mythify and spiritualize?
Again, this is a question for "followers" of religions, not for "believers"... *** Again, no. Sure, it is leading, but I'm interested in the rationale of fundamentalists and those who believe a good chunk of the different stories, such as prophecies, etc. From a fundamentalist point of view, prophecies and some teachings of other faiths are wrong or false. But still they will rely on the universality of believing in some supreme being, citing those other religions as proof something is definitely out there. According to that school of thought, God always existed, but from a fundamentalist perspective, He only manifested itself truly and in all his glory to them, in their own faith...That's interesting, because if you consider the number of cults and religions there has been throughout history, the chances that the stories are myth are staggering statistically. I think this applies to all believers depending how much they adhere to organized religion. Those that don't are another story -- we certainly see a lot of people say they just believe in a supreme being and completely reject organized religion. Maybe my questionnaire should have been for those who adhere to one faith very stronly, that wasn't very catchy.
But, for the sake of argument, I'll answer...lol...I don't believe other people's faiths are built on myths...I believe all faiths are built on the same foundation, which is that undeniable underlying "truth" which exists beneath all faiths... *** See above. 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"?
Nope...lol...I think the "need" for the existence of a God is like the "need" for the existence of inhaling and exhaling...or blinking, or yawning, or urinating..lol...it keeps us "healthy"...saying "if there was no God, would we still need to create a God" would be a bit like saying "If we were born without the necessity or ability to take in liquids of anykind, do you think we'd still find a need to attempt to pee?"...lol *** I knew you would say something like that... lol How many times did we have that discussion?
4. If you answered "no" to the last question, what would be a world without "god" in the pre-scientific era, when people could not explain natural phenomenons like thunder and earthquakes? (I'm personally betting on imagining giant beasts burried in the ground and fire breathing birds making a lot of noise in the background...oh wait a minute, many primitive religions incorporated mythic animals...)
In that scenario, I think the Earth would be seen as a breathing, living "being"...which, in reality, it pretty much is...and things like earthquakes would be attributed to the Earth being "mad" or "upset"...rainbows would be seen as the Earth being "happy" and "pleased"...of course, none of these phenomenon have anything to do with the earth being happy or pissed off...lol...but that doesn't negate the very real truth we'd reach of the Earth as a "living" thing, as its own living, viable, individual unit which--along with other forces--provides us with a livable habitat, which gives us life...So in short, we'd still come up with a very real and truthful explaination for what occurs around us, we just would get the "why's" wrong... *** Yeah, a living thing eventually incorporated in some kind of religion and an assorted gods, at least at the beginning. I definetely see primitive man believing in spirits, mythical creatures and gods. As BKW pointed out, we have no problem believing in fate and luck, so I don't see why we wouldn't have the imagination to conjure "God" if he did not exist (and he doesn't ... )
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wellbeyond said: Aerogram said: wellbeyond said: bkw said: SensualMelody said: 3. Let's suppose for an instant that I am right and there is no God. Do you think humanity, especially at its primitive stage, would still come up with the idea of "God"?
***If there were no God as you believe, I do not think that mankind would have invented God. I do not think the "need" to connect to a higher being is from the contrivance of man. In another word...NO. This idea of God occurs to persons who have not been indoctrinated to believe. Oh, come on! This is unrealistic. Every 2 bit tribe on the face of this earth has its version of "God". Of course man would invent "God". He invented "luck" and "fate" didnt he? That's her point, I think, bkw...that since every "2 bit tribe on the face of this earth" has contemplated its own version of God, then it's far more likely to be something instinctual and "built in", and not simply due to an external "need"...I'm pretty sure that if we saw the same characteristics being exhibited within every species of bird in existence, no matter where in the world they lived, we'd chalk it up to something that's part of their DNA, of their chemical make-up...I think Sensual's point is that God placed it there, with everything else we possess..and if there were no God, then it wouldn't exist within us to need a "God"... People all over the world once believed in their heart that the Earth was flat. What could be more instinctual than thinking that was seems flat can't be round? So right there, the argument that if a belief is widely held and seemingly instinctive, then it must be true... doesn't work. I wasn't talking about merely a belief or a mispercieved visual observation, but an instinctual desire to believe in a "God"...not to mention that over the years of human existence, certain observations that were commonly shared in most cultures have all but faded from existence...yet the belief in God still remains extremely strong today, in all walks of life and in people of all intelligence levels and backgrounds and cultures and socio-economic situations...so the "flat earth" beliefs and a belief in God aren't quite the best comparisons to use... Well, you used the argument of widely-held belief that seems confirmed by instinct, and I gave you such a belief that has been proven false. It makes no difference to me if we are talking about God or the Flat Earth. Both are definitely "beliefs" to me, and that,s all that matters for the sake of my argument. | |
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ItalianToy said: bkw said: Of course man would invent "God". He invented "luck" and "fate" didnt he? God does not use fate and luck. He does not draw a Chance card because this is not a game. We have free will...nothing is fixed or predestined. Some choose an awful path, and that is their choice.. Look at yourself, you choose not to believe, BUT...you were given that choice. Nepy, you would do well do read what I actually wrote. I did not say god invented fate or luck I said that man did. Just in the same way that man invented god. To explain the seemingly unexplainable. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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bkw said: ItalianToy said: bkw said: Of course man would invent "God". He invented "luck" and "fate" didnt he? God does not use fate and luck. He does not draw a Chance card because this is not a game. We have free will...nothing is fixed or predestined. Some choose an awful path, and that is their choice.. Look at yourself, you choose not to believe, BUT...you were given that choice. Nepy, you would do well do read what I actually wrote. I did not say god invented fate or luck I said that man did. Just in the same way that man invented god. To explain the seemingly unexplainable. She is SHARP... earlier today she said that I blamed god for the suffering in the world... I had to point out the fact that I don't believe in god and therefore could not blame anything on god. Silly, silly little girl. :LOL: SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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There's only one TRUTH, And we all now who that is, Just ask PRINCE!!! I am the Dog Outside Yo Door,
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IceNine said: She is SHARP... earlier today she said that I blamed god for the suffering in the world... I had to point out the fact that I don't believe in god and therefore could not blame anything on god.
Silly, silly little girl. :LOL: Of course she's sharp. She's getting that fine Le Moyne education! Of course, she calls me a whore when I'm CLEARLY an advocate for self love.
At any rate, umm, Nep2nes sucks. In every new name she makes she'll suck, too. She'll always suck. She'll always be ignorant, and annoying. She could make a thousand new names. It wouldn't matter. Any personality she could possibly dream up would suck. There is no hope. -------
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BattierBeMyDaddy said: IceNine said: She is SHARP... earlier today she said that I blamed god for the suffering in the world... I had to point out the fact that I don't believe in god and therefore could not blame anything on god.
Silly, silly little girl. :LOL: Of course she's sharp. She's getting that fine Le Moyne education! Of course, she calls me a whore when I'm CLEARLY an advocate for self love.
At any rate, umm, Nep2nes sucks. In every new name she makes she'll suck, too. She'll always suck. She'll always be ignorant, and annoying. She could make a thousand new names. It wouldn't matter. Any personality she could possibly dream up would suck. There is no hope.
She will be discovered each time she registers... SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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