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Printablemeow85 said: roodboi said: I think too many folks are lumping spanking and abuse into the same category...maybe some feel that it is abuse
 ...but to compare popping a childs butt to full fledged beatdowns on adults is bullshit and to compare it to abuse against women is an even higher level of bullshit...it's fully possible to not agree with spanking as a form of discipline and still not consider it abusive...there's also a mentality that what affects one child a certain way, affects all children a certain way...some respond to verbal and other discipline well...some respond to spanking well...some don't...parents have full right to find what limits it takes to discipline their children...more than a right, it's a responsibilty...any parent involved enough with their child will find what it takes to discipline them and as long as it doesn't cross the line of abuse, it's not my place or anyone elses to tell them they are wrong...Sorry, I think it's a valid comparison. Not all women who are abused get the full beat-down. Just a smack every once in a while constitutes abuse as well. What's spanking? Just a smack every once in a while. Violence is violence is violence IMO. The rules don't change just because of who's the recipient of it. Let's see if you can answer the Big Question, since alwayslate chose to ignore it: If it's wrong to hit one person, why is it right to hit another person? Oh jeez, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, would you be happy? | |
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KatSkrizzle said: Genesia said: Lord... 
And here I thought it was ridiculous when the father of a 10-year-old cast member of the play I'm in called our stage manager to complain when I told his kid to keep his mitts off my water bottle.  This reminds me of Byron's spoiled under 30 crowd posting. But seriuosly, all reports reveal that 80's babies have a way different work ethic...they don't. They came out of the first era of time out, validating their feelings, all that bullshit. I think whoever came up with the idea of "time-out" for dealing with an irate little piss-ant needs to have the living crap beat out of them...my godson (bless his evil little heart...  ) is so out of control because my sister bought into that BS that he now calls her "fat butt" and all other kinds of vile shit....and unfortunately I'm persona non-grata in her house because I smacked him on his ass the first time I heard it...my kids STILL get complimented on their behavior in restaurants and public in general because when they were little and cut up, they got popped on the butt...and I popped them on the butt until I didn't have to anymore...when they understood the repercussions of their misbehavior, THEY learned to adjust, first to avoid "punishment", then later to gain reward....and now, they're proud of the fact that they know how to act...
I think the whole comparison is a moot point because everyone, parent or not, has strong views on the pros and cons of spanking....it really comes down to what works for your kid(s) or you as a person.... He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
(George Eliot) the video for the above... 
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related | |
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Okj, so let's stop with the spanking debate...
but, how about the people who detest spanking give some constructive suggestions on how to handle this child and her horrible behavior? This girl is going to die by the age of ten at the rate she is going for the eating alone Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer. | |
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LiquidGold said: Okj, so let's stop with the spanking debate...
but, how about the people who detest spanking give some constructive suggestions on how to handle this child and her horrible behavior? This girl is going to die by the age of ten at the rate she is going for the eating alone I already said it. Professional help. This is still a child. But she has issues that are far beyond "spanking" or time outs. She needs an outside objective team of drs, etc. who can teach behavioral changes and strict diet. People who are not affected by her tantrums and words. She's still only 4, so it's not like her behavior can't be changed. "Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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noimageatall said: LiquidGold said: Okj, so let's stop with the spanking debate...
but, how about the people who detest spanking give some constructive suggestions on how to handle this child and her horrible behavior? This girl is going to die by the age of ten at the rate she is going for the eating alone I already said it. Professional help. This is still a child. But she has issues that are far beyond "spanking" or time outs. She needs an outside objective team of drs, etc. who can teach behavioral changes and strict diet. People who are not affected by her tantrums and words. She's still only 4, so it's not like her behavior can't be changed. Your personality is set by 5. She is going to be 5 very soon Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer. | |
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LiquidGold said: noimageatall said: I already said it. Professional help. This is still a child. But she has issues that are far beyond "spanking" or time outs. She needs an outside objective team of drs, etc. who can teach behavioral changes and strict diet. People who are not affected by her tantrums and words. She's still only 4, so it's not like her behavior can't be changed. Your personality is set by 5. She is going to be 5 very soon Well, they better get on it, then!!  "Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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roodboi said: meow85 said: But abusive partners often justify their actions by saying it's a method of discipline and teaching respect rather than a matter of losing their temper. Many abusers who hit their spouse "as discipline" would never think of doing so "out of anger". And a lot of parents who spank their kids have done so just because they lost their temper. So how do you draw the line? How do you justify hitting a child "as discipline" when you'd never accept that excuse for hitting an adult? What makes it okay? I honestly don't understand how the same person who would balk at hitting an adult could defend hitting a child. The very fact that children are smaller, weaker, and less mentally developed, as far as I can see, makes spanking even more wrong than hitting an adult. again, I understand your point of view...but if discipline is the reason for a spanking and not used as an excuse to abuse a child, then I see a distinction... a parent popping their childs butt with their hand and a parent losing their temper and beating a child with ridiculous force are two differnt things in my view...maybe that's where we differ the most, you may view both as abusive behavior...people/parents who "justify" their abuse as discipline are what make this such a volatile issue becuase it's created a mindset that abuse and spanking go hand in hand...if I were in a store and I saw a parent pop their childs butt because they were acting up, it wouldn't garner the same reaction that seeing a man hit a woman because "she was acting up"... I think it should get the same response. Like the good Dr. said (Seuss, that is) "A person's a person, no matter how small." I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why it's okay to hit a small person but not a big person. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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KatSkrizzle said: meow85 said: Sorry, I think it's a valid comparison. Not all women who are abused get the full beat-down. Just a smack every once in a while constitutes abuse as well. What's spanking? Just a smack every once in a while. Violence is violence is violence IMO. The rules don't change just because of who's the recipient of it. Let's see if you can answer the Big Question, since alwayslate chose to ignore it: If it's wrong to hit one person, why is it right to hit another person? Oh jeez, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, would you be happy? Can YOU answer the question? Don't jump on me with snarky replies if you're not prepared to answer the very simple, basic question I've already posted. It should be easy enough for somebody -anybody- who is pro-spanking to explain what makes hitting a kid right if hitting an adult isn't. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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noimageatall said: LiquidGold said: Okj, so let's stop with the spanking debate...
but, how about the people who detest spanking give some constructive suggestions on how to handle this child and her horrible behavior? This girl is going to die by the age of ten at the rate she is going for the eating alone I already said it. Professional help. This is still a child. But she has issues that are far beyond "spanking" or time outs. She needs an outside objective team of drs, etc. who can teach behavioral changes and strict diet. People who are not affected by her tantrums and words. She's still only 4, so it's not like her behavior can't be changed. 4 years old is starting to push it a bit in terms of personality and permanent behaviour patterns, but overall I agree with you. I think it's very clear from what was posted that this child has a serious problem that goes far beyond eating too much and being disrespectful. Her mother and grandmother seem to give in to her demands, which is not the route to go at all. I'm curious as to how the father -if he's in the equation at all -responds to her. The help of a professional child therapist and dietician seem like the best ideas. And you know what, Americans? In civilized countries, that'd be considered a health care service and be paid for. Demand it of your government. Yeah, it'll mean a raises in taxes, but you deserve it. Too many people are getting caught in bad situations because they have no way to take care of it. I saw a special on TV not too long ago about a woman in Florida with a tumour growing on her leg that was so enormous she couldn't walk properly anymore. But being American and without insurance, she had no choice but to let it grow worse. It was a relatively simple problem that could've been solved with day surgery, but instead she was stuck for years with this massive thing on her leg that prevented her from working. It was so sad. You'd never see something like that in most other western countries. [Edited 2/28/08 1:18am] "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: KatSkrizzle said: Oh jeez, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, would you be happy? Can YOU answer the question? Don't jump on me with snarky replies if you're not prepared to answer the very simple, basic question I've already posted. It should be easy enough for somebody -anybody- who is pro-spanking to explain what makes hitting a kid right if hitting an adult isn't. I believe the question was answered. Children are not equal to adults Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer. | |
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LiquidGold said: meow85 said: Can YOU answer the question? Don't jump on me with snarky replies if you're not prepared to answer the very simple, basic question I've already posted. It should be easy enough for somebody -anybody- who is pro-spanking to explain what makes hitting a kid right if hitting an adult isn't. I believe the question was answered. Children are not equal to adults This is true, that's what most of society thinks. But once upon a time, not too long ago....women were legally not considered equal to men and blacks were not considered equal to whites. Times are changing and children's rights are evolving. I personally do not believe that allowing children to have the same rights as adults do when it comes to this particular topic (being struck as punishment) is going to lead to them becoming spoiled, horrible adults. Kids turn into bad adults because of bad parenting in general. All that bad behaviour is learned behaviour...for most part, directly from their parents. That little girl learned how to talk to her mother that way from someone in her life. She wasn't born with that kind of language and behaviour. If they have said that there is nothing wrong with her medically, that kid is a total victim of her environment. Her mother needs just as much of an intervention as that child does. | |
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meow85 said: KatSkrizzle said: Oh jeez, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, would you be happy? Can YOU answer the question? Don't jump on me with snarky replies if you're not prepared to answer the very simple, basic question I've already posted. It should be easy enough for somebody -anybody- who is pro-spanking to explain what makes hitting a kid right if hitting an adult isn't. Online gangsta thug...all y'all...in a hand holding way...singing Kumbaya. Is it OK to hit a person? Well I have been in bar room brawls if that's what you mean... Well shit, you have security/police/law enforcement that rough up people all day for doing stupid shit. Folks get out of hand and get put in "time out" (jail). If I'm at a club or recreation environment and a dude is disrespectful I have security put his ass out. There are many times fights break out and security has to FORCEFULLY put their asses out...that's when cops been called and they come to take his ass away. So yeah, it's called hard heads. Just like them bad ass kids. Never thought I'd be a "liberal" thinking person and arguing back and forth with these Internet gangstas! And I say that tongue in cheek, no need to get your panties in a ruffle and you go all off n shit. Sensitive, sensitive folk up in here. Shall we sing "We Are the World" while you coddle? | |
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The root of this kid's problem is control over her parents, not food.
The parent have to gain control. No More Haters on the Internet. | |
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meow85 said: roodboi said: again, I understand your point of view...but if discipline is the reason for a spanking and not used as an excuse to abuse a child, then I see a distinction... a parent popping their childs butt with their hand and a parent losing their temper and beating a child with ridiculous force are two differnt things in my view...maybe that's where we differ the most, you may view both as abusive behavior...people/parents who "justify" their abuse as discipline are what make this such a volatile issue becuase it's created a mindset that abuse and spanking go hand in hand...if I were in a store and I saw a parent pop their childs butt because they were acting up, it wouldn't garner the same reaction that seeing a man hit a woman because "she was acting up"... I think it should get the same response. Like the good Dr. said (Seuss, that is) "A person's a person, no matter how small." I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why it's okay to hit a small person but not a big person. from my experience, this is a non-issue. all through her life, my mom would always say to me "don't think you're too old for me to turn over my knee!" she said this to me when i was well into my thirties, and my grandmother used to say the same thing to my mom. most of the time it was a joke, but...sometimes it wasn't. 
it has less to do with "you're a kid so i can beat you" and more to do with "i'm the one in authority here, and i'm telling you to rein it in or else." | |
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LiquidGold said: meow85 said: Can YOU answer the question? Don't jump on me with snarky replies if you're not prepared to answer the very simple, basic question I've already posted. It should be easy enough for somebody -anybody- who is pro-spanking to explain what makes hitting a kid right if hitting an adult isn't. I believe the question was answered. Children are not equal to adults no, they aren't the same in development and maturity (though in many cases that is debatable), but I believe they have the same rights as adults - a right to be treated well and fairly, to feel safe and secure. Corporal punishment is an infliction of physical pain, from the people who are supposed to protect children, not hurt them. | |
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Dance said: Dude really.....what is it with you and rabbits?!  surviving on the thought of loving you, it's just like the water
I ain't felt this way in years... | |
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