JustErin said:

I made one for you several weeks back when I was in the car on my way to work, but I thought it was kinda stupid.

I wanna see a video.

KidaDynamite said:

And, ya....the man should post at least one public vid for everyone to see.

JustErin said:

I don't think very many people would want to see a vid of me...

Cuz, again, to me...any form of hitting someone is not acceptable.

That's all.

violator said:

Ya, ok.

JustErin said:

yeah, see, i read that as a "nice" way of saying that the way i was raised was unacceptable, and i find that appraisal equally unaccaptable.

but i think that's the infinity loop of threads about spanking on this site - you have two camps: people who were either physically mistreated as kids or who witnessed gross physical abuse; and the other people who did not suffer such misfortune and don't understand (on an instinctual, primal level anyway) the strong reactions against physical punishment because it never really left a scar on us.

really, we're just projecting our own experiences and dressing them up as opinion, which i suppose is our only option in life, but i think it's hard for the two points of view to cross over for any kind of devil's advocacy in this debate, and that's a good recipe for lots of spinning wheels.

Anxiety said:

Great... here comes Anx cockblockin'...

violator said:

i would never lay a block on a cock! i do have SOME feelings, after all!

violator said:

i would never lay a block on a cock! i do have SOME feelings, after all!

violator said:

Ya, ok.

JustErin said:

yeah, see, i read that as a "nice" way of saying that the way i was raised was unacceptable, and i find that appraisal equally unaccaptable.

but i think that's the infinity loop of threads about spanking on this site - you have two camps: people who were either physically mistreated as kids or who witnessed gross physical abuse; and the other people who did not suffer such misfortune and don't understand (on an instinctual, primal level anyway) the strong reactions against physical punishment because it never really left a scar on us.

really, we're just projecting our own experiences and dressing them up as opinion, which i suppose is our only option in life, but i think it's hard for the two points of view to cross over for any kind of devil's advocacy in this debate, and that's a good recipe for lots of spinning wheels.

Anxiety said:

Kinda opened the door for that one, huh?

Anxiety said:

But it is unacceptable to me. Just as I now for a fact that there are things that I think are acceptable that others don't. So what?

At the end of the day, parents can raise their kids any way they want. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here...I'm just stating my opinion. You raise them the way you want, I'll raise mine the way I want. It doesn't mean that I have to agree with people who do something different than me, or even think it's acceptable. I think hitting is wrong...period.

Two camps, eh? So which camp do I fall into? I was spanked as a kid...I turned out ok and it didn't leave a scar on me. I am simply saying that I believe it's not necessary at all and (again, to me) it's just a form of violence. Yup, that means that I feel that my father was violent with us...do I hate him for it? Do I think he was a horrible person for doing that? No, because he was just raising his kids the way he was raised until he too decided that it wasn't necessary.

So really, I don't think one can sum it up to people falling into two camps (or at least the two camps you described) on this debate. Some people have actually lived both sides.

JustErin said:

Anx, I know you're not gonna let her punk you like that...

Stymie said:

Same here, Ivy. My mom did the same thing to me and my sister. Beat us with whatever was within reach. I was so terrified of her I hid in the woods for two days when I was only 11. I never want my kids to be afraid of me that way.

This child needs professional help. There is something very wrong there and beating is not going to help it.

Right...Im calling the Super Nanny on all of u

Anxiety said:

I deal with the results of the touchy-feely aspect of modern society every day in the military....because even though these psuedo-adults VOLUNTEERED to serve in the MILITARY, they're actually appalled that I and other people in leadership positions have the gall to tell them what to do...and I attribute it to the permissive way they were raised....just recently, a troop got into a very heated disagreement with a guy who outranked him by 3 stripes (an absolute no-no, no matter how right you may be...there are ways to deal with this tactfully)...and was so clueless that he called and asked his mom to call our unit to complain about how we were treating him....which, of course, she did....this troop is 24 years old....but there's momma just reinforcing her lessons that whatever baby wants, baby gets.....

I have no idea why some of you seem to think that not spanking means that you are a parent that does not 'lay down the law' or is a permissive parent and not a proper authority figure.

I also have no idea what the whole 'second child is worse than the first' has to do with the discussion of spanking.

What I think I am seeing is a few people being defensive because their parents spanked them and maybe they have a hard time with someone saying that they believe that hitting anyone is a form of violence.

I had a father who was spanked as a child and who spanked my older brother and I when he was upset at us. Somewhere down the line he realized that the only reason he did it was because it was done to him and that it really wasn't a necessary form of punishment. My younger brothers were never spanked. There is no way in hell that you could call my father a permissive parent. He was extremely strict but he did not have to use his hand to get his point across with us. He set down firm rules but also respected us and gave us the opportunity to make some decisions on our own instead of dictating our every move. He didn't start out that way, but my mother really turned him around when it came to parenting his kids.

Of course there are parents that spank their kids that in turn create problem adults just as there are parents that are so lax in parenting that they also create problem adults. All I am saying is that if a parent that spanks and a parent that doesn't spank both end up raising children that grow up to be great adults (as people in this thread who come from both styles of discipline can attest to), I don't know why anyone would choose hitting their kid over not hitting them. Cuz, again, to me...any form of hitting someone is not acceptable.

That's all.

JustErin said:

ZZZZZ, who made you the moral majority? Stop with the self righteousness, it's annoying.

meow85 said:

I gave you my reason. You disagree and that's okay. I don't see children as adults' equal. You'll take what I said and translate that into something sinister, I'm sure. I love my son. I spank him because I love him and I want to raise him right. This is how I was raised by my father and I think I turned out well. I am a good woman; at least as far as I am concerned. I never felt like my dad didn't love me because I got a spanking and he always made sure I understood that I deserved what I got. My father is one of my best friends today. I have rights as a parent to raise my son as I see fit. And I am a good parent. Whether you agree is of no importance to me. My goal is to raise my son to become a good man. This is my way of doing it.I do not beat on my kid. I am not abusive but yes I do spank him when I think he deserves it. And I am not sorry about.

meow85 said:

It's cool. Drama queens make me giggle. Different strokes I 'spose...

In this case, yes, a specific act of hitting is okay. An open palm (spank) to the butt I find acceptable. Punching, smacking of the face, using objects to hit, etc. isn't acceptable for me. There are limits to everything.

I think too many folks are lumping spanking and abuse into the same category...maybe some feel that it is abuse ...but to compare popping a childs butt to full fledged beatdowns on adults is bullshit and to compare it to abuse against women is an even higher level of bullshit...it's fully possible to not agree with spanking as a form of discipline and still not consider it abusive...there's also a mentality that what affects one child a certain way, affects all children a certain way...some respond to verbal and other discipline well...some respond to spanking well...some don't...parents have full right to find what limits it takes to discipline their children...more than a right, it's a responsibilty...any parent involved enough with their child will find what it takes to discipline them and as long as it doesn't cross the line of abuse, it's not my place or anyone elses to tell them they are wrong...

Let's see if you can answer the Big Question, since alwayslate chose to ignore it: If it's wrong to hit one person, why is it right to hit another person?

meow85 said:

I can answer it to my satisfaction but probably not yours...
there is a distinction between abuse and discipline...I truly respect your opinion but I simply can't subscribe to the idea that a parent spanking their childs butt when they have done wrong and a man giving a woman a smack every once in the while are even in the same ballpark...I know it boils down to what ones defintion of abuse is...I think the question of why it's ok to hit one person and not another is a little far reaching...just because there is a common action involved-hitting-doesn't mean there is a common reason for it or a common outcome from it...hitting anybody out of anger, children included, isn't ok...spanking, not out of anger, but rather as a form of discipline is, imo...

roodboi said:

But abusive partners often justify their actions by saying it's a method of discipline and teaching respect rather than a matter of losing their temper. Many abusers who hit their spouse "as discipline" would never think of doing so "out of anger". And a lot of parents who spank their kids have done so just because they lost their temper. So how do you draw the line? How do you justify hitting a child "as discipline" when you'd never accept that excuse for hitting an adult? What makes it okay?

I honestly don't understand how the same person who would balk at hitting an adult could defend hitting a child. The very fact that children are smaller, weaker, and less mentally developed, as far as I can see, makes spanking even more wrong than hitting an adult.

reneGade20 said:

Lord...

And here I thought it was ridiculous when the father of a 10-year-old cast member of the play I'm in called our stage manager to complain when I told his kid to keep his mitts off my water bottle.