CJanssen said:

those not involved in many of the sub-subcultures of the gay subculture always point fingers at those who they view "ruin it" for the more "normal" gay people. but if it wasn't for those unafaird to stand up and be who they there wouldn't be a gay rights movement or the ability to point at them and say it's their fault. the movement is built on the backs of the flamers, Drag queens, transgender, Leathermen, and dykes.

you want hot? i'll give you HOT

XxAxX said:

i hope he's keeping your warm today.

ehuffnsd said:

bah this last week has been subzero temps, the kind where you will die if you stay out too long. 40 below and such.

although, today things warmed up to a toasty 6 DEGREES ABOVE ZERO

XxAxX said:

whoo hoo!!!!!

ehuffnsd said:

i am still dreaming about a move to your lovely city

XxAxX said:

71 today

ehuffnsd said:

newpower99 said:

HEY HEY!!!!!

We should all go out and play footie.

ehuffnsd said:

You're probably dead right but the ones you name (Leathermen and the drag queens) are too much of everyting. They cross a certain line and it seems so far away from a normal life. Where is the line you could ask because even "normal" gay people have questionable sex in the eyes of straight people. But, talking for myself, if you're acting more feminine than even a female could dream of (drag queens) and it all becomes some sort of carnival and you're having sex in such a brutal way as these Leathermen have (it seems they can have sex with anyone who passes by as many times as they want) I think it does put a stamp on homosexuality. I know all kinds of people exist but these people are very extreme in my eyes.

My native language isn't English so I find it a little difficult expressing myself correctly. But I guess you understand what I write.

newpower99 said:

yeah, okay. they're hot. BUT none of them are Bob Saget hot

CJanssen said:

Too much in who's eyes though? Straight people? I guess if you believe that in gender roles, and monogomy and the missionary position as being correct than yeah it's extremem. but if you don't buy into the ideals of straight society why should one be foreced to live by them.

straight men wish they had the freedom to sleep with whomeever like gay men causing jealousy and hatred. gender bending also causes fear in people for whatever reason. I as a Leaterboy and a Drag nun shouldn't have to hide who or what I am simply because it makes someone I don't know feel better about their precious little world.

CJanssen said:

judgement after judgement.

which line?

what makes you think gay men who like leather don't have a normal life?

and what about brutal? you make it sound like rape.

dawntreader said:

one needs to be able to ask honest questions to get correct answers.

ehuffnsd said:

Hahaha, now it's getting difficult for me, not only you but also dawntreader on my back.

First, I shouldn't mix in this subject. It's not my world and not my way of thinking, I look at it from the outside. You wanna shoot my ass please don't.

Second, no judgements. I'm not homophobic at all. Seeing it as judgements probably means you've been treated with injustice one too many times, sorry for that, I'm not like that and don't mean it like that. Who am I to judge.

I just happened to react on the movie of the rugby players and the MySpace page I saw.

Maybe I should state that, people, independent from their sexual preference, who are brutal at a sexual area, are extreme to me. Brutal as in having no limits, being excessive.

What is being correct, what is crossing a line. That's just a feeling I have. Yes, you can sum up a thousand of points that invalidate this feeling.

To call it a rap.
Lot's of straight people do things that are brutal in my eyes. Poop, pee and vomit sex, sex with animals, children abuse etc, etc. IMO incredible that it exists and the things I don't even know of. For me it's a total turn off and in the same way extreme as the "stereo type" gay people who have abundant anonymous sex and create this excessive image on purpose.

Because I don't know you both personal don't take it personal. There are so many degrees of everything. You maybe don't fit this image and if you do, so be it.
I "judged" the ones who do put a stamp on homosexuality by showing the whole world their naked ass and sucking everything that passes by. We have lots of parades here in the Netherlands.

My question only is, is it necessary? Are these extreme things necessary to be happy? I'm just curious.

CJanssen said:

i really appreciate your open way of discussion, so thanks for that. and don't worry, don't want to shoot your ass!



be careful with your comparisons, kinky sex (heterosexual and homosexual) is always with mutual consent, and does not have anything to do with abuse of animals or children.

do we really have lots of parades here in the Netherlands? we have canal pridein Amsterdam and one pink day in a different city, once every year. and they attract a lot of straight people who come to watch and have a good time.

every now and then it's good that gay men show their naked butts, just as straight people get to do, all the time, everywhere. on television, in magazines, etc. it's good that homosexuals get to be open in the light, and that it not have to be hidden in the dark all of the time. there is no sex on the parades, no exposed genitals.

and now, to aswer your honest question: are these in your eyes extreme things necessary to be happy? i am in a very good relationship with a guy and we have lots of leather- and kinky sex, and yes, we make eachother very VERY happy. for us, it's a way of expressing our love.

but most important, who do people who have lots of sex, or kinky sex, hurt? what does it really matter to other people?

CJanssen said:

is it necessary? yes.

extermes exisit to make people feel normal. those in the extreme lead the way and clear the path for those who aren't.
[Edited 2/12/08 14:48pm]

Just noticed this. Haven't seen it yet. Will report back soon

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

hot rugby players up for two days and you haven't watched it yet?!?

are you feeling ok?

ehuffnsd said:

That tells you how busy I am!

I'd be pretty much okay with just watching that all day.

dawntreader said:

This is the only answer to your question




Me and my opinion..... It's just, when there's something on tv about gay people I just pay attention to the leathermen and drag queens because I find it so... extreme. The thought of being able to have sex with whoever walks by is so strange. It feels like lust predominates (but that's mainly a feature of men in general). I've been to a pink day in my hometown out of curiosity. I'm from the South and we have carnival. It felt like carnival that day. The men all like the village people or Divine and most of the women like biker chicks, so butch, with those necklases with iron thorns and a black cap. I was like . It was very provocative. I just wonder why they are so exuberant, as if they had lived for ages in a cave and someone let them out.

Btw I just saw your profile pic for the first time, you're a real leatherman. Is that you on the left with your parents? And on the side your boyfriend?

I'll not comment any more because your opinion is as much worth as mine. You could comment me on being a prude.
Your last statement opened my eyes because it's the line I use myself when it comes to e.g. muslims wearing headscarfs or places where many minorities live. People around me talk very violent about these people and the stupid thing is those people aren't even around us. They see it on tv and I find them racist making these comments. I'm not around that extreme gay people either so I guess that makes me somewhat racist or ignorant either. But it is still a feeling I have. I just don't like the extreme, whatever sex, race or sexual preference.

*.....running back like hell to M&M where I came from.....*

CJanssen said:

no don't run, you are doing fine, just fine you are not a prude, your openess is refreshing.

i think you've learned something, your statement about the muslim references is just great. you don't have to like the extreme, that is your freedom. nobody makes you. none of the kinky people will ask more of you than an open mind, and no judgements.

a few things: there is no gay (leather) man that can have sex with whomever just walks by. that may be the image, but it's nothing more than that.

then, at the gay pride, i am sure there were a lot more gay men and women than you probably thought. you just didn't notice them, because they were just plain and normal looking people. not every gay wears wild clothes, just the wild ones, who like to provoke, which is sometimes needed, and if you felt like carnaval, it was the purpose anyway. straight and gay making fun together.

and then...





this picture on my profile is not me!!! it's an old picture from a record sleeve which i thought was hilarious. it's emancipation taken too far, i would never take a picture with my parents in law looking like that! i am not a "real" leatherman, in the sense that i hardly ever go out on the street wearing full leather (maybe late at night going out, which is not often).

thanks for thinking i was the hot sexy buffed man on the left though...



i look very boyish and young, actually more like the one on the right. but only when having sex. great sex!

can we hug?


[Edited 2/13/08 14:55pm]

i'm very proud of this thread

dawntreader said:

Oh yes, a big
I find your reactions very down to earth, mature, just like it is. I was afraid you and ehuffnsd would be offended by my opinion, that was the last thing I wanted. There are so many things I have no knowledge about.

ehuffnsd, come here, you too

CJanssen said:

the only way bridges are built is through honest open friendly disscusion.

god i'm leaving out words right and left edit.
[Edited 2/13/08 12:34pm]