So there is opposition to fingerprinting guns, but a random book reading list can get you in trouble? Oh yeah the Bill of Rights protects the right to bear arms... what protects the right to read what you want to read?

http://www.msnbc.com/news/823009.asp
USA Patriot Act: Librarians Keep Quiet

If the FBI comes knocking, there’ll be no talking; so the ACLU seeks a renegade for a test case

NEWSWEEK

Oct. 28 issue — Usually librarians are the ones who tell people to keep quiet. But ever since Congress passed a series of laws aimed at helping law enforcement track down terrorists, it’s the librarians who are under orders not to talk.

THE USA PATRIOT ACT allows the FBI broad new powers to check borrower records, Internet use and any other materials that could help track client reading histories (it also applies to booksellers and could be used to obtain medical records). The law contains a gag order threatening librarians with criminal prosecution if they tell anyone of the FBI visits. The FBI must get a warrant from a judge, but the standard is lower than probable cause. And the evidence, too, is secret.

For more than a month the ACLU has been searching for a librarian who doesn’t want to cooperate and is willing to serve as a test case in the courts. “This statute trumps protections in place in 49 of 50 states, with consequences that could evoke images of Big Brother,” says the ACLU’s Gregory T. Nogeim. But librarians may be too good at keeping quiet. In February 2002, just a few months after the law’s passage, the University of Illinois Library Research Center anonymously surveyed more than 1,000 public libraries. Already 85, or 8 percent, had been forced to reveal patron information. Library officials estimate there must be hundreds more by now. Yet despite widespread outrage among librarians, so far no one has come forward, and the statute remains untested in the courts. The search for Conan the Librarian continues. There’s little chance that the role will be filled by the nation’s most famous librarian: Laura Bush.
—Adam Piore

If you don't have anything to hide...

Thirteen months ago this would have bothered me, but the minute that the first plane hit the tower each American lost some of their civil liberties and I guess I'm all for it if it helps (in any way) keep us safe.

The world is a changed place and I will trade liberties (like the FBI knowing what books I read) for protection.




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[This message was edited Tue Oct 22 13:11:31 PDT 2002 by lovemachine]

lovemachine said:

ahh yes...however, would this law have prevented Sept 11th from occuring?

lovemachine said:

The question is not what you have to hide, but WHO determines what is suspicious reading?

The Bible? The Qur'an? Karl Marx? Hegel? Sartre? Foucault? Amilcar Cabral? Frantz Fanon? Malcolm X?

the 'information age' is pretty scary. we all leave paper trails and cyber trails these days.

in order not to, we'd have to eschew banks, jobs, credit cards, car insurance etc. personally, i don't think it's possible anymore not to leave a trail. so, might as well go ahead and embrace orwell's vision of 1984

XxAxX said:

I on your post.

Lleena said:

More civil liberties shat upon in the name of "national security". USA is fast becoming a police state.

I think they should check out what (or if) George W. has been reading.

"The USA Patriot Act"... lol.

You Americans are weird.

2the9s said:

Last time I saw him reading, it was a childrens book. Plus it was upside down.

Lleena said:

which is PRECISELY what i meant when i complimented you (on your compliment thread) about how you remind me of the need to change undies EVERY day, lleena.

As far as most internet sites, they forewarn u that if the authorities want info on u for a legal matter or wrong doing, they will cooperate with the authorities. best 2 make sure u arent on the internet with evil intentions because u are being watched ALL the time. they catch child molesters this way. just bcuz u use an anonymous name, fake address etc. doesnt mean your home free! they have their ways! however, if u were to b reading up on, or viewing child porn sites (God forbid), i dont believe they can do anything about that, as that is not a crime (unless u stand bfore God) but if u use this material to contact underage children with or without intent to further your online connections, u can b in serious trouble.

lovemachine said:

Are you aware of the kind of shit that had to happen FIRST in this world before we (in the wstern wordl that is) finally got all those civil liberties you are talking about giving away just because you fear? Hundreds if not thousands of years of blood, sweat and tears. wars and atrocities on the scale of september 11 and constant violations of human rights everywhere for ages against histories warmongers and human right violators...

but you prefer to believe the governement keeps you safe and that they won't abuse their powers, as if nothing wrong is going on right now..

pdon't tell me you also believe George has "got nothing to hide"...



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[This message was edited Fri Oct 25 8:41:31 PDT 2002 by Abrazo]