Illustrator said:

awwww very nice

Illustrator said:

There was a guy I dated once who said to me more than once he couldn't "figure women out". My advice was to just work on one at a time.

Sounds similar. lol.

I prefer the term "Man Child" as I'm still a kid at heart and always will be.

I mean, I pay my bills, I work full-time and then some, what I do in my free time and how kids love me to death (because I know how to play) is my business.

This person that's making these generalizations has just never been with someone who could act like a kid but still take care of business like a man. Oh yeah, I'm doing that too

Slave2daGroove said:

Same here, brother.

The author of that article definitely has issues. She probably got dumped by some dude who couldn't take her annoying ass.

Illustrator said:

nice!

Suzieq76 said:

yes i agree.. they dont respect other's lives.. they try pushing off 'their dreams' of what they consider success onto other's lives ...and i just wanna clarify.. i like kids and family is great, but when someone tells me.. i need to go have some .. 'hey hey!, whoa!' rewind .. i just say .. it'll happen when it happens... IF it happens .. as of right now.. i love my freedom

The problem is not "child-men", the problem IMO is that, at least where I live, settling down is more the norm than in the US and I feel society makes me feel bad about my status quo. I mean, what is so bad about NOT being married and not having kids at the age of 25? Why should I feel I'm "missing the train" when it comes to these things? I DO somewhat fit the description in the article, except I'm not getting laid.

purplehippieonthe1 said:

you shouldn't, at any point.

purplehippieonthe1 said:

you're perfectly normal .. there is nothing wrong with being single and in your 20's ... the author of the article has issues..
[Edited 1/30/08 13:16pm]

Flowerz said:

That's more like it...

uPtoWnNY said:

very true

Genesia said:

are you kidding? Go ahead and list the actions they describe the men doing.The actual actions.

ufoclub said:

Wonder what she has to say about men my age living in juvenile bliss? My parents didn't molly-coddle me, that's for sure.

She's forgotten what country she lives in - aren't we entitled to "life, liberty & the pursuit of happness"? It's up to the individual(not society) to determine what that happiness is.

This article has been posted at a gaming site I go to. Needless to say, the responses are brutal.

CarrieMpls said:

Agreed.

statuesqque said:

I'm in the same boat as you are, except that I am turning 40. It wasn't that I consciously decided not to get married; I just chose to work on myself and want to be at a point in my life careerwise and maturity-wise where I feel that I am ready to settle down, get married and have a family. I think that part of this decision for me personally not to settle down yet is subconsciously not making the same mistakes that some of my family members made with their lives. I grew up in a family with eight siblings, and we struggled financially, particularly after my father died of a rare illness while I was still in elementary school. Also impacting matter at this time was the fact that I grew up in a dying industrial town that had factories close left and right in the late 1970's and early 1980's and had jobs relocated overseas to Taiwan and Mexico to the point where we led the nation in unemployment (just under 20% at the time). At any rate, my oldest sister ran away from home when she was seventeen years old and got caught up in drugs and alcohol and had a baby at age 18 that had a bone disorder. At first it was thought that her drug and alcohol use was responsible for my niece's disorder, but it was later determined to be genetic. My next older sister graduated from high school but then had a whirlwind relationship which led to her having two children from her boyfriend, but they eventually broke up. My third sister had a relationship and baby at age 20 with an alcoholic who abused her, and she refused to put up with his drinking and abuse and dumped him. But I think what really affected me the most was my third older brother who I had been very close with growing up got a girl pregnant when she was only 15 (and he was 17 at the time). He did marry her in a sort of shotgun-type wedding, but that marriage was rocky from the start and quickly destructed.

This made me stand out from the rest of my family like a sore thumb because I had always done well in school and planned on going to college. I was also a bit nerdy and sort of awkward with women at the time, so I got teased about my sexuality and inability to get girls. Nevertheless, I was not about to make the same mistakes, and I really felt that I needed to eventually get out of my hometown, which I eventually did. I did manage to get a girlfriend in high school who was a Bible thumper that was saving herself for marriage. As much as I loved her, I knew I wasn't ready to get married yet, no matter how horny she made me.

As for me now, I feel like I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my life. I did expect to have settled down by now, but life circumstances has made that wife and lover elusive for me. Even so, I don't think I'm ready to settle down yet, and the thought of having children scares me (though some of the most vivid dreams in my lifetime involve me seeing my children being born; however, I wasn't even in a relationship when I had those dreams). That doesn't mean that I don't want any kids; I think I would love to have children someday. I just don't feel that I am ready to have a family yet. And I think that it is shortsighted for someone else to claim that choosing not to have marriage or children makes men immature.


[Edited 1/30/08 16:11pm]

Everyone's said a lot of the things I was going to say. But I think it cuts both ways. There are a lot of women who have what i like to call "Cinderella Syndrome." They have unrealistic expectations of relationships and think that every relationship they have should be just as it is in a movie, and if it isn't, they bail. I cannot even BEGIN to tell you how many girls/women think this way.

Not to say that that never happens because it does, but it's not always the norm.

Also, I kinda feel like our society has gone out of their way to help women/girls be okay with themselves, feel valuable, and achieve, that they've left men on the sidelines with little more than a "Keep your chin up, don't cry, get married." Not to say that ANYONE should be coddled (and I agree with Genesia that coddling has drastically affected a lot of these snotty little bitch kids these days), but we don't give the men/boys that much attention past childhood.
[Edited 1/30/08 16:11pm]

ufoclub said:

What I'm saying is she completely ignored that fact that the current generation of young women are socially retarded based on the way that have been harry-coddled and allowed to remain in a state of juvenile bliss obsessed with media, products, travel, lightweight social interaction, juggling men, not taking any responsibility.

Not so long ago, the average mid-twentysomething woman had achieved most of adulthood's milestones – high school degree, marriage and children. These days, she lingers – happily – in a new hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. Decades in unfolding, this limbo may not seem like news to many, but in fact it is to the early 21st century what adolescence was to the early 20th: a momentous sociological development of profound economic and cultural import.

These days, single women in their 20s and early 30s are joining an international New Girl Order, packing leisure hours with shopping, traveling and dining with friends.

Strangely, she left out the "hooking up, playground of drinking, underachieving" that many 20 something girl-women I know are doing . I mean some of these girls are 30!

It's like Sex and the City characters are REAL!

AHHHH!

ufoclub said:

.. and what's wrong with that lol?.... im kidding.. i know where u're going .. the author of the article was completely biased @ men .. never saying anything about females... as someone else stated.. the author is probably someone who was burned in a relationship ..

Genesia said:

Genesia, that's a gross overgeneralization. For many people, cars are essential to get to work, or to paraphrase another Orger, prove their value to their employer. To paraphrase another orger.

And computers? They're kind of important these days. Many people depend on them to make a living and keep up in the global marketplace.

Illustrator said:

I have no idea what to make of this comment.

However, I do think that anyone who wholely buys into the idea that men are all big babies will only find men who are big babies. It doesn't mean that there aren't "good" men or "normal" men out there...it just means that if you get what you expect.

I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense.

You definitely get what you put out

I don't like how the article equates playing video games and having room mates with being immature. or that you have to be married to be mature as everyone has been stating. Trust me there are a lot of men married with children and really shouldn't be

I'll answer my own question. This writer is a disgrace to thinking people everywhere. She ignores fundamental societal and economic changes that affect the rates of marriage. It costs more to buy a home and raise a child, especially when the eligible SYM's are saddled with educational and personal debt before the even get hitched. And half these SYM's are children of divorce. They've seen the consequences of bad marriages and their natural inclination is to be more discerning. And they were probably taught to take their time to find the right person. If not rushing into marriage is a sign of immaturity, I find no fault with such immaturity.

And she is quite hypocritical when it comes to the outlooks of males and females. For a male that plays Xbox, there's a female that spends 3 bills on a purse. For every male with Maxim in his mailbox, there's a female with Us Weekly in hers. For every male who hooks up on the weekends, there's, well, a female. A cursory browse of any net community site would disabuse her of any notion that males are alone in their arrested development.

The dynamics of the generation this author assumes to have dissected are much more complex than she thinks. You have to be informed to give an informed opinion.

.
[Edited 1/31/08 1:28am]

namepeace said:

That's the funny thing about this article. Those that didn't have the foresight to make informed decisions are given credit for that... those that took informed decisions and gave themselves the option of the life they actually wanted to lead are being ridiculed as child-men.

uPtoWnNY said:

Did they all cast Level 4 ultima magic on her?

JasmineFire said:

Yeah, my posts tend to leave most people confused more than anything else( since joining the org, one of the major things that I've learned about myself is that
being articulate is not one of my strengths).

There's a saying that goes something like "In a relationship, you can choose either to be right, or you can choose to be happy".

What I meant by my post was that
when discussing the subject of relationships, if a person tends to focus on generalizations, that person will most likely will steer towards a partner that fits that generalization.
In other words, what you said,
but in a much better way than I did.

Illustrator said:

co-sign





















She put it better

The author of the article is on NPR radio 1-29 podcast

Fauxie said:

Oh yeah

I really like these types of threads because of the way they showcase many orgers abilities to express their opinions at such an articulate , concise &, IMO, very wise manner. Jasmine is just one good example out of many on this thread.
A very quality thread.

This article came out in December:

Does Your Girlfriend Act Her Age?

The women you date should behave—and look—like grown-ups, not characters from High School Musical.

-By Simon Dumenco



Recently, I found myself at a party in Manhattan, casting sidelong glances at a woman. Her look (baby-doll dress, kinderwhore lip gloss) and behavior (exclaiming "Oh my god, totally!" and text-ing obsessively) screamed tweenager. You know, that hybrid archetype—the one who worships at the altar of Hannah Montana and High School Musical. Everything about the woman telegraphed jailbait—except, that is, for the crow's feet, which suggested that this wannabe tween was pushing 35.

Look around. The 35-going-on-12 woman is everywhere. Man-child Syndrome—the affliction that causes thirtysomething guys to cling to adolescence—may be rampant, but lately it's women who are taking the lead in regressing. Call it the Big Girl Epidemic: women selling versions of themselves that, when you get down to it, are pretty creepy. It's not so much a Lolita thing—the Big Girl isn't trying to be a dewy seductress—but more of a daffy, tweenage thing.

Is this the sort of girl you clawed your way into manhood to date? Think back to what your big brother's girlfriend seemed like when you were a kid: A woman. A w-o-m-a-n woman. Not someone who speaks in acronyms and carries a glitter-covered Sidekick.

"I get the feeling that a lot of women are dressing and acting that way because they think that that's what guys want," says Jean Twenge, associate professor of psychology at San Diego State University and author of Generation Me, a book about American youth culture. "It's the same thing as older women getting plastic surgery. The idea is that what men want is a woman who looks 18. Although they don't usually want a woman who acts 18." Twenge laughs, then adds, "And that's where the problem comes in."

And it is a problem—especially if you're a man who happens to find tween impersonations not only unbecoming but more than a little sad. Unfortunately, as long as our culture reinforces the Big Girl's worst inclinations, the epidemic will persist.

"I've been meditating on the question of why women in their twenties and thirties seem to be obsessed with all things teen—fashion, slang, gossip, et cetera," says Anastasia Goodstein, publisher of ypulse.com, a marketing website. "The reality is that teen culture has come to define pop culture." As the usual markers of American adulthood—marriage, career, kids—get more and more delayed, the simpleminded distractions of adolescence have extended their grip on the adult brain. Man-children may drag their old skateboards and video games with them into their thirties, but Big Girls needn't bother to cling to the pop culture of their youth. "Adult" pop culture has been conveniently colonized by a teen sensibility. Consider Gossip Girls or The Hills. Both shows are endlessly blogged about and compulsively parsed by teenage girls—but they're also cornerstones of thirtysomething women's party conversation. The audiences have converged.

Meanwhile, the female-oriented tabloids—Us Weekly, In Touch, and Star—read like Tiger Beat redux, chronicling the dysfunction of the Lindsays, Britneys, Nicoles, Heidis, and Laurens who have come to dominate the celebrity landscape at the expense of more seasoned female celebrities. And you only need look at the teen/tween style bible Teen Vogue to discover where Big Girls are taking their fashion cues from. According to the demographic stats it supplies to advertisers, nearly 2.8 million readers (almost half the total) of Vogue's little sister are adults.

Dating one of these Big Girls doesn't mean just putting up with jailbait fashion and IMs that say OMG, totally! It means potentially enduring the worst sort of navel-gazing drama. As Twenge points out, arrested development goes hand in hand with self-absorption: Narcissism "is a very adolescent personality trait. Obviously it means you focus on yourself and what's good for you." It used to be that men had the ego market cornered, but now, Twenge says, "there's virtually no difference between the sexes with regard to narcissism. Most of the change has taken place in girls and women." Basically, women have caught up to men by sinking to comparable levels of adolescent self-absorption.

Which makes the idea of actually dating a Big Girl even more unappealing.

Not that, in this postfeminist age, you have to hold out for "I am woman, hear me roar." But "I am girl, hear me giggle"? Uh, no. Totes no.