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Printablerushing07 said: blueblossom said: sometimes - just sometimes I think that we have this need to believe in a God because we want to blame someone for our own misdeeds - a God who we think is of a higher intelligence and thus has no excuse for the state that we put ourselves in. Its like - well you knew it was going to happen but you did nothing - that kind of scenerio.
Its like we always want to pass the buck... Oh yes, and guilt (molrality) true oh so true.... (now I feel bad.....!) "I may not agree with what you say but I'll fight for your right to say it"
Be proud of who you are not what they want you to be... | |
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rushing07 said: Fandor said: So you'd call someone like the Dalai Lama weak? Again it is really dependent on one's definition of RELIGION. Again I suggest that everyone subscribes to a RELIGION of some kind. This need not be one of the major recognised faiths. For example, deciding certain people are weak that you have not even met may be part of your religion, ie. your values. Religion deals with values. Science deals with facts. Despite the trend in society to assume the two cannot exist together, there IS a third way which acknowledges that positive altruistic values and facts can and indeed must exist in this world in order for civilisation to surive. While it is true that many major wars were caused due to religious misunderstandings and misinformation, civilisation would soon fall to pieces if it were based on purely secular notions of material facts with no regard for the spiritual elements of life. In response to a post from a former poster, it is really important to understand the distinction between EVIDENCE and PROOF. There IS a lot of EVIDENCE for the existence of a Creator, which is different to saying there is or isn't proof. There are libraries dedicated to this evidence. Thankyou and goodnight. 1. I would say he's just as misguided as the ones on the other side. 2. Ok. I use the word 'religion' in a loose sense: a belief in a supernatural god (gods, creatures, entities) of whatever form, who govern or not over this world or any other world to which persons get after they die. Sure. If you say that religion is basically set of values then, yep, most proabably all conscious adults have some sort of 'religion.' But is this really what religion is? 3. Now why do I say religion is for the weak: Religion (faith, beliefs, etc) came out of two things: imagination and fear. Humans were scarred of many things across the centuries: winds, storms, animals, sun, rain, fire. All those things became gods, sometimes angry, evil gods. Other deities became representations of our hopes (which are directly linked to fear): hope of love, goodness, peace, calmness, bliss, beauty, forgiveness, etc. Different cultures constructed their gods differently but the building blocks were basically the same. Beliefs are essentially human FEARS and HOPES (which are basically the same thing). Religions feed on human fear. Full stop. What will happen to me after I die? Will the evil be punished? I've suffered so much in this life - I will be rewarded later, right? Will I have to respond for all my deeds someday? All of those questions and many others alike hit us every now and then, sometimes in a more basic, at other times in a much more sophisticated form. Faced with those or similar fears, the weak turn to religion, gods, for answers. The strong/bold ones try to deal with them themselves - whatever that means: Writing a poem, banging head against the wall, dwelling in sadness and helplessness, or seeing futility of attempting such answers - are all ways much braver than turning to god for help. That's kids stuff. "Mommy, there's a ghost in my closet!" "Oh fuck off already. You're 43." 4.Libraries were full of proof that the earth was flat, that witchcraft existed, and that women shouldn't think too much. Frankly speaking I'm not surprised there still are some that claim to store „evidence” of Godly presence. [Edited 1/25/08 1:23am] The first three of your responses above aren't difficult to provide rebuttal for, but I don't intend to be on this thread any longer as it has wildly diverged from the initial point, partly with my help. To answer your fourth response though - and with all due respect to a viewpoint which is understandable is a world where there are so many misleading voices of influence - in my opinion you've made the error which so many faiths and philosophers of the world have recognised. This is the error of looking outward for God and blaming him rather than inward and following him. Of course, some may quickly equate this with madness, but crazy is as crazy does, I say. The greatest evidence and the closest we can ever get to proof of God in this realm is that of the spirit within and how that spirit operates interpersonally. Of course only if it is a subject of true interest individually will this search reap any benefit. When one crosses the threshold of belief into faith, one may begin to come to greater understanding regarding the myriad illusions of the day to day world and that some of the greatest of them have to with understanding WHERE a God or a part of God might reside. Again, this is important only if you are so inclinded to seek him. This was the whole point of Jesus' teachings, that a significant part of God was within (ie. "The Kingdom"). It is also echoed in the idea of achieving the Buddha state of enlightenment, although of course Buddhism does not acknowledge an initial, all powerful creator being that can be personally known. Speaking of Buddhism, a great Zen quote is, "the more thinking and talking, the farther from the truth", so again, I'd like to respectfully bow out of this thread now. I certainly don't have all the answers but the main reason I responded to this thread was because I was angered at seeing a group of people who thought they did. Thanks. . [Edited 1/25/08 2:28am] | |
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Posted this in the other thread, didn't see this one, but I'll post it again as I think it belongs more to this one
Anti-gay religious leader Fred Phelps has launched a scathing attack on Heath Ledger, saying his death was "the best thing that ever happened" to his family. Phelps, the 78-year-old pastor of the homosexual hate group from the US known as the Westboro Baptist Church also hit out against Australia, calling it "the land of sodom". Phelps was referring to Ledger's Oscar-nominated role as a gay cowboy in the 2005 film Brokeback Mountain when he made his extraordinary comments in an interview with A Current Affair. "Dying time is truth time," he said. "This is the best thing that ever happened to that family. "The bottom line is that guy went out of his way to spend his time and make a little money, and glamorise and glorify that filthy, deadly sin of sodomy. "And you're (the public) making the hero out of him!" The right-wing pastor also had a verbal spray against Australia. "We've been preaching to Australia for years now, and we've got a map of Australia and we've got (written) across the front of it, all the way from one end to the other: S-O-D-O-M'." "Australia, the land of the sodomite-damned. Australia, which passes draconian laws to put Bible preachers in jail if they peach the proof about fags." Phelps and his 70-odd followers are well known across the US for picketing the funerals of fallen American soldiers, gay rights parades and other public events. The radical Kansas-based church plans to picket Ledger's memorial service which will be held in Los Angeles. I really hope this man and all the picketers are shot at the funeral, or at least smashed to a bloody pulp. I cant even imagine how I would react if someone said and did this to my brother or relative | |
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hellomoto said: Posted this in the other thread, didn't see this one, but I'll post it again as I think it belongs more to this one
Anti-gay religious leader Fred Phelps has launched a scathing attack on Heath Ledger, saying his death was "the best thing that ever happened" to his family. Phelps, the 78-year-old pastor of the homosexual hate group from the US known as the Westboro Baptist Church also hit out against Australia, calling it "the land of sodom". Phelps was referring to Ledger's Oscar-nominated role as a gay cowboy in the 2005 film Brokeback Mountain when he made his extraordinary comments in an interview with A Current Affair. "Dying time is truth time," he said. "This is the best thing that ever happened to that family. "The bottom line is that guy went out of his way to spend his time and make a little money, and glamorise and glorify that filthy, deadly sin of sodomy. "And you're (the public) making the hero out of him!" The right-wing pastor also had a verbal spray against Australia. "We've been preaching to Australia for years now, and we've got a map of Australia and we've got (written) across the front of it, all the way from one end to the other: S-O-D-O-M'." "Australia, the land of the sodomite-damned. Australia, which passes draconian laws to put Bible preachers in jail if they peach the proof about fags." Phelps and his 70-odd followers are well known across the US for picketing the funerals of fallen American soldiers, gay rights parades and other public events. The radical Kansas-based church plans to picket Ledger's memorial service which will be held in Los Angeles. I really hope this man and all the picketers are shot at the funeral, or at least smashed to a bloody pulp. I cant even imagine how I would react if someone said and did this to my brother or relative It is comforting to know that these people represent a very small sect of a very twisted branch of Christianity. . [Edited 1/25/08 5:26am] | |
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http://www.people.com/peo...30,00.html
Well, looks like Heath will be buried in NY, so they can picket away to their hearts content.    "Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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hellomoto said: Posted this in the other thread, didn't see this one, but I'll post it again as I think it belongs more to this one
Anti-gay religious leader Fred Phelps has launched a scathing attack on Heath Ledger, saying his death was "the best thing that ever happened" to his family. Phelps, the 78-year-old pastor of the homosexual hate group from the US known as the Westboro Baptist Church also hit out against Australia, calling it "the land of sodom". Phelps was referring to Ledger's Oscar-nominated role as a gay cowboy in the 2005 film Brokeback Mountain when he made his extraordinary comments in an interview with A Current Affair. "Dying time is truth time," he said. "This is the best thing that ever happened to that family. "The bottom line is that guy went out of his way to spend his time and make a little money, and glamorise and glorify that filthy, deadly sin of sodomy. "And you're (the public) making the hero out of him!" The right-wing pastor also had a verbal spray against Australia. "We've been preaching to Australia for years now, and we've got a map of Australia and we've got (written) across the front of it, all the way from one end to the other: S-O-D-O-M'." "Australia, the land of the sodomite-damned. Australia, which passes draconian laws to put Bible preachers in jail if they peach the proof about fags." Phelps and his 70-odd followers are well known across the US for picketing the funerals of fallen American soldiers, gay rights parades and other public events. The radical Kansas-based church plans to picket Ledger's memorial service which will be held in Los Angeles. I really hope this man and all the picketers are shot at the funeral, or at least smashed to a bloody pulp. I cant even imagine how I would react if someone said and did this to my brother or relative Religion rocks!  | |
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rushing07 said: Cheek said: I don't have a religion. I don't know any God and I don't believe anything that 'man' has created in the name of 'God'. Religion controls the mind (some have called 'spirit' or 'soul'). Religion is not equal with humanity. It's a prison. A ball and chain. A distance between people. I agree. It is really beyond me how anybody past the age of 12 can treat any religion with seriousness. Grow up and deal with your problems yourself. Religion is for the weak. [Edited 1/24/08 23:02pm] hmmmm... so basically what you're saying is: "i don't believe in this and if you believe in this then there's something wrong with you." how does this exactly rise above intolerance? | |
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And I'd still like to know how one can misunderstand something that's left open to many interpretations. | |
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Cloudbuster said: And I'd still like to know how one can misunderstand something that's left open to many interpretations.
Homophobe! | |
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Cloudbuster said: Religion rocks!
Religion = Tolerance | |
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Anxiety said: rushing07 said: I agree. It is really beyond me how anybody past the age of 12 can treat any religion with seriousness. Grow up and deal with your problems yourself. Religion is for the weak. [Edited 1/24/08 23:02pm] hmmmm... so basically what you're saying is: "i don't believe in this and if you believe in this then there's something wrong with you." how does this exactly rise above intolerance? To be completely honest with you - I don't give a shit what people believe in as long as their fairies don't start pooping in my backyard. That I won't tolerate. [Edited 1/25/08 17:58pm] I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the dirt. | |
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Cheek said: Cloudbuster said: Religion rocks!
Religion = Tolerance 
Imago's ass is my temple. I wanna  I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the dirt. | |
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rushing07 said: To be completely honest with you - I don't give a shit
what people believe in as long as their fairies don't start pooping in my backyard. That I won't tolerate. 
That's what I'm feeling too. I can tolerate people's belief and I can live with them without problems. But in the opposite some (religious) people think they have a right to say judgement over others because of the way they live their life. And that's just sad. 
. [Edited 1/26/08 6:54am] | |
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mdiver said: Cloudbuster said: And I'd still like to know how one can misunderstand something that's left open to many interpretations.
Homophobe!  | |
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Cheek said: Cloudbuster said: Religion rocks!
Religion = Tolerance | |
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Cloudbuster said:  | |
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'...God hates the sordid, tacky bucket of slime seasoned with vomit known as Brokeback Mountain...'
Actually I agree with God there, but probably for different reasons that the Westboro Baptist Church have. They forgot to add 'boring', 'unrealistic' and 'over-rated' | |
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I heard Fred Phelps' daughter interviewed by Mitch Albom a few months ago. Very scary.
At that point, I guess they weren't getting enough press picketing gay people's funerals, so they'd started picketing military funerals, because they through soldiers deserved to die for defending a country that tolerates homosexuals. That was her angle that day. She was really gross. "Half of what I say is meaningless; but I say it so that the other half may reach you." - Kahlil Gibran | |
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Haystack said: '...God hates the sordid, tacky bucket of slime seasoned with vomit known as Brokeback Mountain...'
Actually I agree with God there, but probably for different reasons that the Westboro Baptist Church have. They forgot to add 'boring', 'unrealistic' and 'over-rated'  | |
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http://www.news.com.au/da...21,00.html
Hollywood stars fury at Health Ledger religious protest
January 28, 2008 06:55pm HOLLYWOOD stars have reacted with fury at an extremist religious group which protested outside the Screen Actors Guild Awards that Heath Ledger has gone to hell for playing a gay cowboy. The bizarre protest - where demonstrators carried signs "Heath's in Hell" - upset many of Hollywood's elite at the Screen Actors Guild Awards ceremony. The awards were held in a somewhat sombre mood where leading actors paid tribute to 28-year-old Heath Ledger who died of undetermined causes in New York last week. Daniel Day-Lewis, who dedicated his best actor triumph for "There Will Be Blood", said: "Just stop", adding Ledger's family - who the religious ratbags had threatened to target his funeral - deserved some space. Read full story of the sick anti-Heath protest here. http://www.news.com.au/da...21,00.html "We should just stop encouraging people to rake over every detail of his life." Other nominees for the event wore black ribbons on their gowns and suits to honour Ledger while others, such as Cate Blanchett and Ryan Gosling, spoke lovingly about him as a talented actor and friend. Read the full coverage of how Hollywood honoured Heath Ledger. http://www.news.com.au/da...21,00.html They also showed their disgust at four religious extremists who staged a protest aimed at Ledger outside Los Angeles' Shrine Auditorium, the site for tonight's 14th Annual Screen Actors Guild Awards. The protesters, upset by Ledger's role as a gay cowboy in Brokeback Mountain, carried placards with anti-homosexual slogans. "It's too ridiculous to talk about," James Gandolfini, who won the SAG Award best actor in a TV drama for his mob boss role in The Sopranos, said. "Let love be your perfect weapon..." ~~Andy Biersack | |
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