I can't even give it the energy of clicking the link. How unbelievably sad & ridiculous

Fandor said:

i agree.

assholes

Fandor said:

I don't have a religion. I don't know any God and I don't believe anything that 'man' has created in the name of 'God'. Religion controls the mind (some have called 'spirit' or 'soul').
Religion is not equal with humanity. It's a prison. A ball and chain. A distance between people.

Cheek said:

I agree.

The ignorance of man

Fandor said:

I think evidence does indeed need to be a "matter of material reality". That's what evidence is, surely...?

"moral law, altruistic impulse of all mankind" - Well one can argue for the existence of such things, sure, but is it not proof of the existence of God. Who says humans can't be nice just because we are..? Just because, well it feels good to be nice! You can even argue that being "moral" is quite a selfish thing, cos we do it to feel good about ourselves!

Either way, it doesn't prove or disprove the existence of God.

And the "horrors" of this world I mention are not necessarily manmade, though I agree than many them are. What about disease? What about earthquakes that kill hundreds?

You might look at a newborn baby and say "how can that not have been designed by God?" I might look at a baby dying of leukemia and say "How could a God let that happen?"





.
[Edited 1/24/08 4:14am]

rocknrolldave said:

The thing is life just happens. God--or the universal good by any name--is where one goes to seek guidance and strength to deal with life. Definitely, "God" is all-knowing, but that doesn't mean he/she will necessarily intervene to make everything perfect for us here. It's all in the way we deal with tragedy, making us stronger. The perfection or aspiration to it-- is found in our spiritual existence, not necessarily life itself. Life can never be perfectly good, but our response to it can...

These people picketing aren't "dealing" very well, are they? It sort of reminds me of the anti-abortionists who kill doctors in the name of saving babies? It appears that these people believe, but they don't practice if you know what I mean. I'm not necessarily suggesting they are "bad" people, but they don't seem to be very compassionate or forgiving--well at least through their actions.

As far as proving the existence of God, well either one believes or doesn't. Now the Bible..I believe its essence was inspired by God, but because it was filtered-down through man, there are obviously some problems. However, even IF I believed EVERY SINGLE WORD CAME FROM God, I've never really understood why some Christians think it's their mission to judge and punish? Our task is to grow--to become forgiving and compassionate people--as close as we can be to the universal good..

Obviously, these people haven't grown very much. It's sad...
[Edited 1/24/08 5:31am]

Isel said:

Thank you for that post, Isel.

Ottensen said:

Yes, thanks for that, Isel.

What you said is in the same spirit of what I was trying to say,

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

Are they REALLY that stupid? It was a role! A beautifully, powerfully played role. I guess he did it so well that the close minded Baptists protesting think he's really gay. Nevertheless, that homophobic attitude shouldn't be allowed. I mean, despite the way my family feels about gay people (my uncle is a priest, my aunt is the first lady..) They'd never go THIS far.

This is why I lost faith in my faith. People want to play God and take his word to the literal incorrectly. They want to post signs and chastise others instead of loving their brothers and sisters. Not like the King James version is the correct interpretation anyway!! I've always felt that the Bible as we know it has been altered, changed, and mis-written. It almost makes me wish oral tradition was still the most powerful tool in this world instead of the relying on text. The author of the text can say ANYTHING.

That is sad. Really, really sad.

noimageatall said:

1. Heath Ledger was NOT gay in real life. He was only an actor that played one.

2. Who would like to tell the WBC about their sins? They don't even keep the 7th Day Sabbath, and that's a sin. So can we start picketing their Sunday-Keeping church out of pure payback?!?

TonyVanDam said:

Whether he was or was not gay is irrelevant. It shouldn't even be an issue. He was a man with a daughter. He loved, hurt, cried, ate, drank, worried, worked, smiled, laughed, farted, told lame jokes, felt pain, brushed his teeth, picked his nose, protested....he was just a human.

Everyone who eats too much at the buffet, (gluttony), or calls off work to lay around the house watching reruns of Purple Rain all day long, (sloth/lying), looks at a TV show with a hot girl or guy parading around half nude and fantasizes, just for a second...(lust). Anyone who screams at their kids or their parents, or boss, (wrath).

They are all in the same boat as they claim Heath is in.

Mirror, mirror on the wall....

MATTHEW 7:1-5:

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye.

The last part of that scripture may seem to be saying that as soon as you have stopped sinning, then it's ok to start judging and tell your "brother" what to do. Problem with that is, you are not perfect, and never will be. Therefore, you should keep your mouth shut.

Nothing I hate worse than a hypocrite.



Heath protesting at an anti-war rally in Melbourne, AU. 2003


[Edited 1/24/08 13:13pm]

Aren't these the same motherf*ckers that protested Matthew Sheppard's funeral?Assholes..If Heath does get buried in Australia, I hope there are local laws protecting his family from these dingleberries.Maybe when they show up, they can be beaten back by Kangaroos.

Self-righteousness at it's finest

noimageatall said:

I agree.

But please don't me started about what is/isn't a sin. Eating unclean animals (especially pigs) is a sin. But I don't see any of the Sunday-Keeping churches picketing against that neither.

The only point that I was making is to look how guilty these "churches" are for picking & choosing what they want to believe.

TonyVanDam said:

noimageatall said:

This will shock you, because I so disagree.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5:48)

In the Greek Dictionary, the word "perfect" is based on the the word "teleios", which means "complete"

In the Hebrew Dictionary, the word "perfect" is based on the word "tam" which means "complete, coupled together, perfect, plain, undefiled, upright".

Although most people are not complete, it's still not an excuse for anyone to stop reaching for that goal. We can be perfect (complete). Yahshusa (Christ) demands it.

these people are fleas on the ass of society. they make a mockery of humanity, morality and spirituality just so they can have their precious attention. they don't deserve the dignity of our acknowledgment. i only hope the funeral organisers find a way to isolate these wingnuts so they cause minimal distraction, and they're treated like the complete cesspool of irrelevance that they are.

TonyVanDam said:

I agree that we should all strive to be better human beings. I try to do that every day. If anyone does strive to be like "Christ," I'm quite sure He wouldn't have been picketing a prostitutes house, telling her she was going to burn in hell. And just because humans may want to be like Christ, that doesn't mean they ARE Him.

Am I horribly jaded in that this does not surprise me in the least?

GangstaFam said:

it's not at all surprising.

Anxiety said:

I mean don't get me wrong, it's still upsetting. Always will be. But I guess I'm just so used to it in my own life that it isn't at all shocking when I hear about the same thing on the news. I almost feel worse for the people who believe this shit than I do the people being persecuted. Many of us 'sinners' are borderline immune at this point.

GangstaFam said:

Yeah, you do kind of not even notice it after a while But man is it hell when you are a kid and not in control over your own life.

Oh, Love the Avie!

GangstaFam said:

Cheek said:

I agree.

It is really beyond me how anybody past the age of 12 can treat any religion with seriousness. Grow up and deal with your problems yourself.

Religion is for the weak.
[Edited 1/24/08 23:02pm]

rushing07 said:

So you'd call someone like the Dalai Lama weak?

Again it is really dependent on one's definition of RELIGION.

Again I suggest that everyone subscribes to a RELIGION of some kind.
This need not be one of the major recognised faiths. For example,
deciding certain people are weak that you have not even met may be part
of your religion, ie. your values.

Religion deals with values. Science deals with facts.

Despite the trend in society to assume the two cannot exist together,
there IS a third way which acknowledges that positive altruistic values
and facts can and indeed must exist in this world in order for civilisation to surive. While it is true that many major wars were caused due to religious
misunderstandings and misinformation, civilisation would soon fall to pieces if it were based on purely secular notions of material facts with no regard for the spiritual elements of life.

In response to a post from a former poster, it is really important to understand the distinction between EVIDENCE and PROOF. There IS a lot of EVIDENCE for the existence of a Creator, which is different to saying there is or isn't proof. There are libraries dedicated to this evidence. Thankyou and goodnight.

Fandor said:

1. I would say he's just as misguided as the ones on the other side.

2. Ok. I use the word 'religion' in a loose sense: a belief in
a supernatural god (gods, creatures, entities) of whatever form, who govern or not over this world or any other world to which persons get after they die.
Sure. If you say that religion is basically set of values then, yep, most proabably all conscious adults have some sort of 'religion.' But is this really what religion is?

3. Now why do I say religion is for the weak:

Religion (faith, beliefs, etc) came out of two things: imagination and fear. Humans were scarred of many things across the centuries: winds, storms, animals, sun, rain, fire. All those things became gods, sometimes angry, evil gods. Other deities became representations of our hopes (which are directly linked to fear): hope of love, goodness, peace, calmness, bliss, beauty, forgiveness, etc. Different cultures constructed their gods differently but the building blocks were basically the same.

Beliefs are essentially human FEARS and HOPES (which are basically the same thing). Religions feed on human fear. Full stop.
What will happen to me after I die?
Will the evil be punished?
I've suffered so much in this life - I will be rewarded later, right?
Will I have to respond for all my deeds someday?

All of those questions and many others alike hit us every now and then,
sometimes in a more basic, at other times in a much more sophisticated form.
Faced with those or similar fears, the weak turn to religion, gods, for answers.
The strong/bold ones try to deal with them themselves - whatever that means:
Writing a poem, banging head against the wall, dwelling in sadness and helplessness, or seeing futility of attempting such answers - are all ways much braver than turning to god for help. That's kids stuff.
"Mommy, there's a ghost in my closet!"
"Oh fuck off already. You're 43."

4.Libraries were full of proof that the earth was flat, that witchcraft existed, and that women shouldn't think too much. Frankly speaking I'm not surprised there still are some that claim to store „evidence” of Godly presence.
[Edited 1/25/08 1:23am]

sometimes - just sometimes I think that we have this need to believe in a God because we want to blame someone for our own misdeeds - a God who we think is of a higher intelligence and thus has no excuse for the state that we put ourselves in. Its like - well you knew it was going to happen but you did nothing - that kind of scenerio.

Its like we always want to pass the buck...

blueblossom said:

Oh yes, and guilt/morality
[Edited 1/25/08 1:32am]