Here are my thoughts on Roger Clemens. I don't really know him, having met him briefly only once. So take these as mostly-uninformed opinions.

A. The word on Roger forever was that he's a first-class jerk. I think in his younger years that was more true than it is today. I've heard several stories about him going out of his way to be nice to people these last few years. He gave an interview about visiting the troops in Iraq three years ago, and it was very sincere and humble.

B. I think he did the steroids. I can't think of any reason why his trainer would be right about what he said he gave Andy Pettite (according to Pettite), yet make up a bunch of lies about Roger. Especially given that the trainer was testifying under an immunity deal where if he was caught lying, he would go to prison.

C. Most people don't know this, but Clemens would go into the clubhouse between innings and scream his head off. We always thought he was psyching himself up, but now I'm thinking 'Roid Rage.

D. Clemens' lawyer, Rusty Hardin, is an asshole. But if I ever got into trouble, he'd be one of the assholes I'd have representing me.

E. I wonder if Clemens will testify before Congress? This is a no-win deal for him. If he declines, in the public's eyes that will be a de facto admission of guilt. If he goes, he will be under oath and better damn sure tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I wish Clemens hadn't done steroids but I think he did. Of course, it begs the question - if a 'roided-up pitcher strikes out a 'roided-up hitter, is the strikeout tainted?

If I was Clemens, that's how I would spin it.

undecided so far

RodeoSchro said:

The whole sport is a mess...They really can't do anything about past records or performance cause you can never prove 100% without a doubt that roids was always present. Im not saying he didn't (I think he did) but it's tough to use the argument of roid pitcher vs roid hitters.

All in all he is screwed but at least he didn't act like he didn't know english...(cough Sammy Sosa cough) to avoid the question.

I just find it hilarious at how his dumb ass tried to say it was Lidocaine and B-12 that was injected into him. Now, why did his dumb ass wait 24 days AFTER to tell the world WHAT he was injected with? Why didn't his dumb ass just say it right when the report came out? ANSWER: GUILTY! NEXT!

well, a good number of people hear have already convicted the man after watching the segment. basically at this point it doesn't matter if he's found guilty or not because the people have already done so.

statuesqque said:

Well, Raj - Welcome to Sosa, Big Mac, and Barry's life.

MuthaFunka said:

yep, but sadly that's the case for any and everybody.

I hate to burst everyones bubble but they do it in EVERY sport, u think football doesnt do this shit, are U smoking crack, Football players shoot up before games, painkillers injected, steroids, hormones, you name it. I would say that 90-95 % of football players are on some sort of steroid or hormone, Baseball players, of course Barry did it, Sammy,Mcgwire,Clemens etc.. they did it, and they know it, but the records they acheived brought people to the stadium and thats all sports cares about, Pete Rose is banned for life for a Gambling addiction that is harmless and was harmless to his game, and yet players have been high, drunk, fake, injected, and yet no penality because people were entertained by it, well thats america.

lastdecember said:

But fans seem to be more outraged over steroid use in baseball than in football. IMO, it has to do with the physical nature of football.

lastdecember said:

Well, I'd like to see your stats to back up the 90-95% footballers on PHDs, but yeah, no one here said it was JUST baseballers that were juiced, so I don't know why you felt the need to come in and explode like that.

Also, when a manager bets on his team to lose and he can control the lineups - you BEST believe it's HARMFUL to the game. Pete Rose is a bitch and a liar. Plain and simple. So please don't act like his shit don't stink.

uPtoWnNY said:

Mainly because records were broken and also Baseball is the biggest sport, despite its popularity going up and down, its still the most popular thing, its well respected, but its like any other institution, it has drug issues, racial issues, and cheaters like we have seen in the last 10-15 years, to me anything acheived in that time period is fake, all things won, are fake, all records broken in my mind havent been broken, just the way it is, i have applied my own * whether baseball does or not.

MuthaFunka said:

Well lets take Tom Brady and Peyton Manning TD records set the last couple of years, Peyton Manning is a guy that couldnt complete a Pass against a HORRIBLE New York Jet team years before and got beat 41-0 than all of a sudden could throw 50 tds, the same for Brady. Actually if you look back Rose, never bet on the Reds, did he bet on Baseball, of course he did, but guess what, a really good % of players do this every day, and more baseball players gamble than take steroids, and Basketball only had its main referee betting on every game, so please, this shit goes down Everywhere in every sport, so many people are juiced and betting and cheating, even in fucking Tennis, example how someone now can serve a ball 150 miles an hour and 10 years ago could barely hit 100mph, and thats just the women!

lastdecember said:

After reading that part in bold - You should NEVER post a damn thing about sports ever again. I stopped reading after that bold part because you lost ALL credibility at that point.

If you really think Manning and Brady were on juice simply because they broke the TD records, when throwing TDs largely relies on YAC rather than DEEP PASSES that end up in the EZ, then you really should take a football class.

Then you're taking ONE GAME Manning had against the Jets and using THAT as your basis for your argument? Good lord. Give it a rest. Learn football before you try and speak on it.
[Edited 1/6/08 21:27pm]

MuthaFunka said:

First i didnt say that they were juiced i said, it was in QUESTION, and also they got bigger physically during these times, which keeps them healthier. As for Manning's one game, that just happend to be his worst game which came in combination of alot of really bad games in a time period for him. The reason im pointing out Brady and Manning is that its the same type of jump in stats that people like Bonds and Mcgwire had and no one ever questioned it. No one ever questioned how a 35 year old Mgwire off of a career ending back surgery could all of a sudden hit more Homeruns than any baseball player ever, and than Bonds could do the same at almost the same age with similar injuries. no one questioned it, everyone said, oh they train better, or pitching sucks now, or the parks are smaller, no one said, hey maybe these guys are on something, i mean why is Barry's head 3 times bigger, and Mcgwires neck 10 times larger.

there is no way he didnt do roids when pettite was doing them. theyre bff, right? i bet pettite and clemens injected each other...in the ass!

Clemens filed a Defamation of Character ("DC") lawsuit against MacNamee last night. It turns out Clemens had an hour-long conversation with MacNamee Friday, then sued him two days later. Clemens' lawsuit says MacNamee claimed he was pressured by the Feds to lie about Clemens.

There are plusses and minuses to Clemens' lawsuit. A plus is that he can now pull a George W. Bush and say he can't comment on anything because of the ongoing lawsuit. This would apply to testifying to Congress.

A minus is that if the suit stays alive, MacNamee gets to depose Clemens under oath. And, call him to testify in front of a jury under oath at trial.

My guess is the lawsuit is a bunch of hooey, and Clemens will drop it after all the rigamarole (congressional testimony, headlines, etc.) goes away.

Of course, the two Feds that Clemens' lawsuit claims pressured MacNamee to lie might not like their names being dragged through the mud. And one of them is an IRS agent.

This is a high-stakes legal game for Clemens.

lastdecember said:

It's not even in QUESTION because Manning was a baller in college before he made the pros, unless you're trying to say even in college it was in question?

And where is your proof they got bigger and how can you confirm it was due to roids?

And their jump in stats had nothing to do with roids because - AGAIN - they had great weapons to throw to and those WR/TE/RB were good at YAC (Yards After Catch). Again, none of this is making any sense. Follow football better.

MuthaFunka said:

That is the same kind of beliefs that everyone was using for people like Sosa and bonds and Mcgwire, and now clemens, everyone was saying, oh they trained better, and they had better guys in the lineup, so they saw better pitches, and things like now they are coming into their own, etc.. I question anyones results at this point, just because all sports are tainted in some way, its that simple, so i could care less that Tom Brady threw 50 tds because now he has better receivers to throw to, hey it might be 100% legit, or it might not, but because of what is going on in Baseball now everything is called into question. And lets remember that the only reason Baseball is being put under the microscope is because of its federal government ties, if it were this way with other sports, you would have grand jurys investigated everyone from Tennis Players to Football players.

lastdecember said:

(Ok, I'll bite - fuck it) - So, do you have any PROOF Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are juiced?

How could steroids help Brady or Manning throw a football more accurately?

With everything going on in the world I really don't care about this. Don't like how they treated Barry Bonds, but thats just me.

lastdecember said:

This is in regard to your previous statement and the one I just quoted...

I don't even know where to BEGIN to address you. Do you know Football would be my first question...my second question is do you have any idea what goes into the QB position? If you did you would not make such statements. Roids does not allow you to throw 50 TD's....Being a QB and throwing 50 TD's is not the same as hitting home runs. A whole lot has to happen for even 30 TD's to be possible let alone 50.

And as for your "roids keeps them healthy" theory...if you actually watched Brady or Manning play you would see they hardly ever get hit. They have pocket presence and release the football quickly. So by my math...Throw football fast + move well in pocket + have reliable/great weapons = clean jersey and healthy season.

A blind monkey with its head shoved in its ass could see a 34 year old Barry Bonds hitting a billion homers is not natural. Everyone can see something fishy is going on with baseball...this isn't some big revelation. But if Peyton and Brady gain weight from college to their 8th or 10th year in the league they are suspect? (mental note don't gain weight due to age or exercise...I may be accused of roids).

And yes I know you said they are "in question" not that they did do roids but if those are your example of suspects in the NFL then you really don't know the sport. DT, OL, WR all would come to mind before a QB....

We all know there is cheating in every sport...the degrees may vary but to single out "oh so in so is really good ...looks like a cheater cause it happens in baseball" is silly. And if you are going to do that back it up with some proof. Or seem like you know the sport/athlete before voicing your opinion cause you look like your talking out of your ass.

Sinister said:

Dude i know Football and know what goes into it alright, i didnt say these two were on it, but im saying anytime now someone acheives anything like throwing 50 td passes, or catching twice as many passes as anyone before, or hitting serves 150 mph, or running races in record times, or hitting 80 homeruns a year, ITS ALL IN QUESTION, thats the point. Shit they may be clean, but when i see guys coming back one week after career ending injuries im tired of hearing, "oh thats advanced medicine" when all it is, is someone getting injected in the ass with some chemical to go out there and perform. Im saying that if thats going to be the excuse always than ALL these sports have to live with their being speculation and scrutiny, after all they are getting paid way too much to play a FUCKING GAME that at the end of the day is meaningless anyway. As for Bonds its funny that now everyone says "oh yeah i know he was on something" and meanwhile back then they were like wow hes the greatest of all time. Look these morons made their bed, i dont feel bad for them at all, as far as baseball all these records in the last 15 years should be wiped clean off the books, or should at least go under a different heading, "numbers acheived while using steroids". And if its ever discovered in other sports, which, sorry, but if people dont think its going on in Football and other places you are just living on another planet, but until a day comes when every player in every sport gets tested (blood tested, since the other test is meaningless) than anything they do is under question, sorry but thats how it is.

So why even bring up juicing and use them as examples to begin with? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Yo, just stop commenting on this altogether. Seriously. Your comments are ridiculous. You're contradicting yourself and it's really hurting your credibility. I'd sit this one out, chief.
[Edited 1/7/08 18:45pm]

MuthaFunka said:

Theres no contradiction whatsoever try reading, IM SAYING, that because of what is going on any acheivements by anyone CAN BE called into question, do u understand that? So next year if Alex Rodriguez hits 70 Homeruns he is gonna be called into question, we all know that for a fact, but the "tainted" players are not just in the Baseball game and if thats what everyone believes than you are clueless. I mean do you seriously think that the sport of Football is 100% clean? are you kidding me. And by the way i know plenty of football and what goes into making great players and teams, so jump off that, the same goes for baseball, i was pointing out how "fake" baseball players records were about 10 years ago when the whole McGwire and Sosa chase began, saying that they were on something, and guess what, they both were, Sosa did so many steroids he probably gives milk at this point.

lastdecember said:

Get some rest, homie.

Well Clemens talked to his accuser trainer today on the phone and one of them recorded the conversation. (I'm searching our local sites to see who has it linked)


found it...

"Trainer Says He'd Go To Jail For Clemens"

http://www.click2houston....etail.html
[Edited 1/7/08 21:28pm]

MuthaFunka said:

Yeah ok same philosphy people had 10 years ago when they said "wow these baseball players are amazing, better trained, better hitters" oh please such fools.

statuesqque said:

Clemens is lieing, hes guilty, but he needs to come clean or else he and barry will be sharing a cell together rather than a place in the Hall of Fame which neither will see unless they buy a ticket and visit. Roger had a chance but saying "i'll take a lie detector test" but what did he say "I dont know what those will prove?" is he nuts? he practically announced his guilt right there, also ex-fbi agent watching him speak said he could tell he was lieing about something just from his shifting and nervous energy.

lastdecember said:

I know the lie detector response shocked the hell outta me too. I thought, damn at least take the test even if you don't know what it'll prove, at least you'll look less guilty. But NOOO, that made too much sense I guess.
[Edited 1/7/08 21:37pm]