Recently, I was playing the video game Grand Theft Auto 3 and while I was in the heat of battle I immediately felt similiarities with this game and the sniper shootings. If anyone here is familiar with the game, you can basically drive around and spot out somebody to shoot or blow up and then drive away to your hiding space. The game is the most violent game I have ever played and I wouldn't recommend this game to a disturbed person. In this game you can basically buy a high powered rifle and zero in and shoot a person for no reason and then run away before the cops catch you. This game have some eerie similiarites with the sniper shootings, and if anyone that has played the game will know what i'm talking about.

Good grief I was wondering how long it would take before people start blaming the sniper shootings on video games. Come on, the whole "video games made my son a killing machine" argument is hysterical and without any basis in fact.

Plenty of videogames feature war. And there are wars going on! So videogames must cause war. Right?!

Anyway AbucahX, back to your point... well GTA3 is just one of hundreds of games that feature sniper rifle type weapons. Sniping is (I'm sorry to say, because it sounds terribly insensitive) really really fun.

I'd say if you want to blame anything for people getting killed in Washington DC by the sniper, blame (a) the gun control laws in the US (b) the psychopath going around and doing the shooting. Honestly, you'll see far worse violent imagery in the movies than you'll see in any videogame.

I expect he plays GTA3 while dressed like Marilyn Manson
and listening to his Judas Priest records backwards.

BorisFishpaw said:

Aw for fecks sake.

If anyone decides to kill anyone on the basis of a computer game/song, then they're a very disturbed person indeed and would most likely do it even without the game giving them the "idea" in the first place.

I would think a lot of TV shows are much more violent than games like GTA3 (which is the best game ever made IMO).


[This message was edited Thu Oct 17 16:52:17 PDT 2002 by npgsmfc]

npgsmfc said:

Agreed!

I mean, I played Super Monkey Ball religiously and I only very rarely roll a monkey around in a plastic ball in real life. And I'm cutting that right down real soon now.

Hey npgsmfc I was at the Edinburgh opening of the Game On exhibition today... you should check it out!

I've almost managed to kick my old habit of
running around in khaki shorts shooting
endangered species with my twin automatics,
while ransacking ancient lost temples.

(I still cant help saying "Ahh-ha!"
whenever I pick up strangley abandoned
ammunition & medipacs though.)

ian said:

I'm not blaming videogames for the sniper shootings or violence, I was simply stating that there are similarities with this game and the sniper shootings.

BorisFishpaw said:

Interesting! Because I've noticed that I collect gold coins whenever I see them, and sometimes bash platforms with my head to release hidden coins. Also, when I collect mushrooms from my back garden I get an extra life.

Which is nice.

Whenever I bump into a robotized fluffy animal
all the gold rings fall out of my pockets.

(doncha just hate it when that happens)

ian said:

Oh yeah, name some movies that is more violent than Grand Theft Auto 3...I would love to check some out.

AbucahX said:

Pretty much any movie with a bit of violence at all is going to have more impact than GTA3. Saving Private Ryan. The Thin Red Line. Scarface. Shit, even Aliens.

Bear in mind - that you aren't REQUIRED by the game to shoot innocent people with a sniper rifle - you could spend the entire time just peacefully being a taxi driver or an ambulance driver. But, you CHOSE to shoot people with the sniper rifle. Because it's good fun, isn't it? Anyway the premise of the game is basically being a one-man crime wave. If they didn't have sniper rifles, thousands of gamers would complain because some of the most fun moments are sitting atop some building and popping a few heads of local gangsters. Gorey, and tasteless given the recent news, but it is still a lot of fun, especially when you get hundreds of police, FBI and army guys chasing after you.

AbucahX said:

Well, Battle Royale for one.

You want me to put up some more? I think you'll find there are many movies more violent than Grand Theft Auto 3.

Ian said:

Cool. Was it really good then? Is it a show previewing up-coming releases? Any of your companies games there?

AbucahX said:

Goodfellas.Death race 2000,Demolition man,terminator, natural born killers,the NEWS.CARTOONS!!

npgsmfc said:

It's very good - you should check it out, it's in the Royal Museum and it's £5 in. You can play lots of groovy old arcade machines etc. (And yeah, we have a game there, but I'll avoid the shameless plug).

4LOVE said:

I saw all of the above movies and I don't think those movies is more violent than Grand Theft Auto 3.

AbucahX said:

The game is basically having you do mob hits.YOU control wether you shoot up innocent people or not.I'm not an expert,but most people do stuff "on the side" rather than try to complete the game.They like shooting up people.

ian said:

Hi, don't get me wrong, the game is mad fun..I wouldn't let my child play it or recommend the game to anyone else child. The game is increasingly popular in the video game industry and the prequel to Grand Theft Auto 3 ( Grand Theft Auto 3 Vice City) is expected to be a huge seller, heck, the preorders of the game is breaking records. Violence sells..why do we like violence so much? I think that these games should be sold with parental supervision.

The game is a personality test. You direct the action. You could have just been a taxi driver, but you chose to shoot people because it's more fun, and nice to have all those police paying attention to you.

Anyway, if you want to draw comparisons with the recent sniper shootings you really have chosen the wrong game. You should look at some of the more realistic PC games, war games, counter-terrorist games etc. Counter Strike, Operation Flashpoint, Medal of Honour, Ghost Recon etc. They all have shooting as the mainstay of the game, whereas it's a very small part of GTA3.

AbucahX said:

These games aren't for kids. In the UK, the game has an 18s certificate - it isn't for sale to people under the age of 18. There are plenty of warnings on the packaging that the game carries violent imagery. I'd agree with you entirely - the game is very fun, it is very violent, and I definitely wouldn't let my kids play it, if I had kids.

Personally, I think you could do a great game like GTA3 without the violence. You could still have all the freedom etc. The problem, it wouldn't sell half as many copies. Being a one-man crime wave sounds much more exciting

ian said:

You are right, the games is not for kids... but they are marketed and sold to kids and the majority of players that play this game is kids. You are right, there are warnings on the packaging of the game, that is one of the reasons that the game sell well.

AbucahX said:

You cannot blame the developers or the publishers for this. Or even the retailers - in every instance I have seen (of a kid trying to buy this game) they have been turned down by the retailers.

The problem lies with the parents. I've seen game store staff trying to explain to parents "listen, this game really isn't suitable for your kids" and the mother's attitude was "it's just a game, he wants it, i don't care if it isn't suitable or not".

The blame lies entirely with the parents.

ian said:

I'm not blaming the developers or publishers at all. I'm referring to on how the game is marketed, and it is clearly marketed to kids. Kids can easily buy the game without supervision of their parents. I know a 10 year old boy that is collecting massive amounts of money from his peers because they give him the money to preorder Grand Theft Auto Vice City on the internet with his mom credit card because the kids know that they can't buy the game at most retailers without the supervision of a adult, so they buy it online. You right, the blame does lies within the parents, but not entirely.

AbucahX said:

It really really isn't marketed to kids.

I know the marketing people responsible, I know a lot of the developers etc. They aren't making the game to appeal to kids. It's for adults.

Like anything (books, magazines, movies) anything banned and forbidden will get their attention... particularly since it is the biggest selling PS2 game by far (over 7 million copies so far... and Vice City will be just as big no doubt). However there is no intent on the part of TakeTwo, Rockstar, Sony, or the retailers to put this game in the hands of minors. I firmly believe that. It's all about the parents. Parents shouldn't let their kids buy things online unsupervised. Parent's shouldn't buy the games just because the kid wants it. Parents should be AWARE of what their kids are playing, reading, and watching.

The industry can only do so much to keep it away from kids - and frankly I don't know what else we CAN do, aside from provide better advice to parents.

BorisFishpaw said:

YEAH WELL

POOK THROW BARREL AT PLUMBER

SOMETIMES CANNOT HELP IT

POOK

ian said:

Exactly!
I work in a very large entertainment retailer, and I can say first hand that the vast majority of the blame lays with the parents. I've lost count of the times that some kid will try to buy an age restricted game or DVD and get refused, only to come back later with their mom or dad who then buys it for them.

I dont give a shit...

what Abucah says is RIGHT. The game is not a violent fanstasy or something.. it is a game that mimics and belittles real life violence and portrays it way too accuratey. I think its completey distasteful.

In the game, u can punch and kick a person to the ground, and then kick them till they r dead and blood flies out all over the pavement.

THEN u can nick their money...

I have played the game and i have to say.. while i felt it WAS the best game ive played in a long while.. it only points to how sick we r as humans, what r basic darker natural insticts are, and we shouldnt tune in to this side.

Games like this are a disgrace. Just because it is fun, doesnt mean moral obligations should be thrown out of the window... we cant just do what we want "in the name of fun"

As far as i can c, abucahx is making a valid point. Games like this r no good for children. Even though its not meant 4 children, they r the main players of the game.. so.. dont make it! im sure over 18's can find something better to do with their time... and if having the right to play games like that is their idea of "Freedom" then we had better think again.


In all my life, i dont think ive seen such a sick game. Yes i found it fun.. which is why i never played it again.

No one is saying that u play a game.. and then go and copy it u fools.

What we r talking about is that its just another way of completely destroying the borders of right and wrong.. more mindless violence that is taking its toll on the psycology of children, about what is ok and acceptable in society and i dont care what u say about me or what u think... over time games like that have an INFLUENCE..

I just dont see how u can justify a game like that because its "fun"and it fills our perverted fantasies. While adults r far less likey to b affected, children .. who are in the process of shaping their mind are easily IMPRESSIONABLE..

if u think thats a load of cock and bull.. then why do we have 18 stickers then?? (18 in uk)



just my opinion, Bring on the slating.. abucahx... im gonna need u man!

PurpleHouse said:

.. then don't play it.

It has sold over 7 million copies so quite a few people seem to think it is a lot of fun

Your hysteria is the problem here. There is nothing "sick" about the game. The game is made for adults. Plenty of adults enjoyed watching "The Godfather" or other movies with violence and gangsters. You know what you are signing up for. Same applies to GTA3.

As I said in my previous post, it isn't for kids, so your "won't someone please think of the children?" arguments have no merit in my opinion.

Rather than criticise the game developers, try criticise the parents who DO let their kids play games that are clearly are not suitable. The game is full of adult content, and dark humour. Just listen to the radio shows in the game for goodness' sake.

FINE IAN.

u win.Yes it might b fun to play, and yes its addictive.. but does it mean its for a good? or helpful? i personally think its irresponsible to have such a game cause lets face it.. 000's of children WILL play it.. and that is not a good thing.. and the developers know it.

U r right... parents should not be buying it.. that much is defo true.

But i will say this.. if ur a good person, u will feel that there is no NEED for games like that.

While it might b fun, there should be an element, a voice within u, that tells u this is wrong, its obscene and unnecessary and u should b disgusted by it.. atleast a little bit!! c'mon!!

So.. we have a paradox.. a split within ourselves.. while we might b slighty disgusted by it and cant believe such a game exists.. we still like playing it. I will definately b the first to admit it was fun as i said ealier. So.. we r stcuk with a choice. a choice between how much the game is good, and how much the game is bad. In short.. good and bad.

As an old addage says "we all have a good wolf and a bad wolf fighing inside us. Which ever one wins.. will be the one u feed"



Just my opinion. No disrespect.

Peace.