What's wrong with being republican? People act like it's a disease or something!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a Republican, just as there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a Libertarian, Democrat, Green or whatever else.

I find it particularly annoying when people criticize others for their political beliefs and call them stupid or ignorant for believing what they believe. That's the trouble of people having their own mind and thoughts... they will not always agree with you.

To those who HATE Republicans, Libertarians, Democrats or whoever:

Do you find it horribly disturbing that a GREAT number of people disagree with what you believe?

I find this stuff very amusing... I have no respect for either the Republicans or the Democrats, as all they seem to be able to do is sling mud, grandstand and try to spin issues so that the opposing party looks bad when they should really be talking about real issues and solutions. While I despise their politics, I will never call someone stupid, cruel, ignorant or heartless for being a member of a political party. People should be allowed to believe what they believe...

Here is another question:

Since the political affiliation of Prince.org seems to be overwhelmingly Democratic... How many Republicans are out there that just don't speak up because they know that the liberals/Democrats will gang up on them?


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[This message was edited Wed Nov 6 7:31:44 PST 2002 by IceNine]

theres nothing wrong with being a Republican...and i dont think anyone would be flammed for saying such...i would love a serious discussion on the org about the state of our country...

ice, dont blame democrats for the lack of vocal republicans on this site...TheMax is the only really vocal republican I can recall, and he/she is far more abrasive and rude when debating issues than any democrat on this site...

SkletonKee said:

Wow... I thought that TheMax was a Democrat.

Stop excusing yourself; you are all insane and you know it!

They start too many damn threads.

IceNine said:

YES, people should be allowed to believe what they believe.

BUT, if people believe stupid, cruel, ignorant, heartless things, we should CALL them on it, and NOT VOTE FOR THEM!

Letting people believe what they want is NOT the same as letting them run the country!

Dammit! Ice, may I respectfully submit that you are letting your overwhelming (and probably justified) cynicism about politics essentially BE your political party? So that you accept all of the planks of the Cynics platform without critically evaluating them? Just think about it.

Doves,
Mel!ssa

tackam said:

I submit that I am not accepting all of anything without critically evaluating it. I am a Libertarian, but I don't vote for Libertarian candidates that I don't agree with or if I feel that a Republican or Democrat has a better plan.

I am the one who always posts AGAINST things like voting straight-ticket for the very fact that it IS simply accepting all the planks of whatever platform. I will NEVER accept ANYTHING without careful consideration... I would think that you would know that about me from reading the things that I post.

I am very cynical, yes. Does cynicism mean that you don't question things? No. I believe that a true cynic will question more than those who are not cynical.

AzureStar said:

The media and our universities crank out liberal ideas almost exlusively. So all your lazy thinkers are liberal by default, spewing out all the same fallacies they were fed.

The irony in all this is that so far Clinton was more capitalistic than Bush in some ways. Example: Clinton, free trade with other countries, nafta, etc. Bush, steel and lumber tariffs, trade wars. YUCK...the two parties really aren't all that different...

There is nothing wrong with it as long as you don't force your religion on me. The Republican party is way more likely to fawn over and cater to the religious right and are more likely to let their religious beliefs dictate the way they interpret the law i.e. anti abortion.

Believe what you want but when you infringe on my life by forcing your beliefs on me, I have a problem.

IceNine said:

I think it is an admirable goal to never accept anything without careful consideration, and I surely see that in your posts in general, and I share that goal. I don't, however, think that any of us actually attain that goal. We fall into patterns that can be blinding.

I think that being critical is not the same as being cynical. I think that being critical is a good intellectual habit, where being cynical is a pattern of being dismissive of popular thought, of being indescriminately independent. I say this as a person who formerly proudly identified myself as a cynic, and who is married to a person who still proudly identifies as a cynic. I will often AGREE with a cynic, and I often agree with you.

I'm just saying that any pattern of thought can be blinding, and cynicism is a pattern of thought. We NEED patterns of thought, systems of belief, to be consistent and to keep from being completely bogged down by all of the issues that need to be considered. That's ok. But I think we should be aware of the blind spots that can create. And I feel like the political cynics have a blind spot that got Bush elected. . .

I've said enough for the moment. . .response?

Doves,
Mel!ssa

Mel!ssa[/quote]

And I feel like the political cynics have a blind spot that got Bush elected. . .

I've said enough for the moment. . .response?

Doves,
Mel!ssa[/quote]

I also feel this is the truth.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Very well said!

I cannot fucking STAND that about the fucking Republicans either... I do not want to hear about any fucking religion in politics and I don't want legislation, public policy or law to be influenced by that shit either.

IceNine said:

This is the main reason why I'm so vehemently anti Republican. I'll be damned if the Bible belt south is gonna dictate my life as a Democratic Californian. Ice, mark my words. Just watch how many laws and policies will be influenced by the religious overtones of the party. Bush appointing ultra conservative judges are simply the first steps on that path. I'm very afraid of the next couple years with the Republicans in full control of the Houses and The White House. I only hope the damage won't be permanent.

tackam said:

I agree with everything that you have said except the part about cynical people getting Bush elected.

I am not purely cynical, as you could imagine... one would be in a very bad way indeed if he were 100% cynical. I question pretty much everything and would consider myself to be an excellent critical thinker.

As you said, I do tend to reject popular opinion and things of that nature, as my cynicism tells me that the only reason the mass of people hold that opinion is because they have been carefully conditioned. I have read "Mein Kampf" and I have seen the results of Hitler's brilliant use of propaganda and I think that we would be blind to think that our politicians haven't read about or studied the effectiveness of propaganda.

Back to my Hitler quotes:

"The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of the nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell a big one."

IceNine said:

I think the cynicism she is speaking of, and correct me if I'm wrong, is the cynical view of "my vote doesn't count so why bother". At least that was my take on it.

teller said:

what media? what is the highest rated news channel right now? Fox!! Which is ultra-conservative..What the highest rated political show on PBS? McClaughlin Group...Times have changed bub, conservatism is all around the boob tube..

and instead of calling people like me lazy, why dont you engage me in discussion..im sure you will find out otherwise...

nobody disagrees that Clinton was more capatilistic then Bush...But he did it within the sytem. Bush on the other hand gives favors to his inner circle (like no prosecutions against any Enron members...yet his Admin walk into other offices with cameras in tow, arresting other executives for good PR). His lack of a "moral outrage" over business fraud is one of the key concerns for investors and could be pointed out as one of the reasons our economy has yet to rebound...

Yeah, the 'my vote doesn't count', or, 'I'm voting to send a message, not to elect a candidate', but most especially:

'Bush and Gore are exactly the same, it doesn't matter which one gets elected, so while I realize that one of them WILL be elected, I refuse to say that one is better than the other'. I think that last statement is why Bush won. It's the cynical blind spot.

I am inclined to agree, BTW, that the main reason that Bush is much more frightening than Gore is the religious fundamentalism. I really am afraid of what he is going to do to the Supreme Court.

I am also inclined to agree that most people are very much conditioned to hold their opinions, and it is very hard to convince them otherwise.

Doves,
Mel!ssa

SkletonKee said:

And it's only because we have been attacked on 9/11 and are very likely to go to war with Iraq that Bush has been able to distract the public from his lack of moral outrage over the business scandals. Remember folks, we still have yet to hear who Cheney met with at Enron to form the energy policy. Also remember that this administration has been very secretive and not at all transparent to the public. It's gonna get worse, believe it.

Lest you need a reminder on why it is so important for the adminsitration to be transparent, in the case of Enron helping to shape the public energy policy, what happens if Cheney and the administration WERE aware of Enron's theivery tactics? The administration would share equal responsibility for the billions of retirement dollars lost by investors because of the corporate scandals. If there is no problem, why wouldn't the administration be more forthcoming? I swear to God, I cannot wait to cast my vote against Bush in 2004. I may not be in the majority at that point but I'll still cast my vote with pride.
[This message was edited Wed Nov 6 10:01:28 PST 2002 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Enron crooks will get theirs in time. The investigation is extremely complicated due to their accounting structure(scheme).

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

And my hatred for the party especially comes from the fact that they will sit there on their pious thrones, dictating what is "right" and "wrong" for the American public all the while being just as filthy guilty as the rest of the people they are trying to control with their fanatacism. Remember during the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal how Newt Gingrich extolled family values and virtue and HE WAS GUILTY OF HAVING AN AFFAIR ON HIS WIFE!!! He should have just shut the fuck up. It's this kind of shit that makes me hate this party with a passion.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Another example...When we were attacked on 9/11 Jerry Falwell said that the attacks were God's way of punishing pro abortionists and homosexuals or something very much to that effect. This is the type of person that the Republican party courts and bows down to in order to have their vote. Another example of why my hatred for this party runs so deep.

Let us not forget George Bush Sr's infamous quote about non-christians/Xians not being true American patriots (Anyone got exact wording?). That's the groundbase of it all.

There is nothing wrong with being a republican.

Essence said:

And Ben Stein had the nerve to ask why the Democrats have the the majority of the black vote. Not saying that there aren't Black Christians, but this kind of mentality does nothing to help minorities.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I know many black people that have conservative views and principles..but they would never vote republican because of the party and canditates mentality.

Well, what I do is this... I vote for the person I agree with most.

AzureStar said:

And for that I have NO problem. Do you understand why a lot of us do have problems with the party though?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I can see why people would have problems with all parties. The Democrats are not saints and I object to their views on many things as much as I object to Republican views on others. Both parties are equally bad.

AzureStar said:

True but it boils down to the lesser of 2 evils for me. At least I don't have to worry about the Democrats pushing for and passing anti gay legislation.