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Printableheartbeatocean said: JustErin said: Because every female to male transexual I have seen still looks like a woman, no matter how hard they try to mask it and I am not physically attracted to female features.
I know two of them. One of them I was SHOCKED when I found out, because I never would have guessed. I still find it amazing. The other, I knew as a woman before she became a man and it took me a while to make the mental adjustment. But he is also extremely masculine and I can't believe that anyone would see him as a woman today. And I'm attracted to both of them the way I'm attracted all men  , which I find fascinating. But I find really butch lesbians attractive too.it's easier to pass after the transition from female to male, i've met several in my time who i didn't know til they told me. the effects of testrone on the body are extremely diffcult to reverse. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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I honestly do not know. I would like to think yes, but then the fact that someone was once a woman would kind of give me some second thoughts. | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: That story of Riley's is very touching but I am very torn on it. I am not sure about indulging a child at such a young age. When I was growing up, into my late teens (15-16) I was so connected to my femininity that I was convinced I would have to have a sex change in order to be happy. And this idea wasn't put into my head, nor suggested by anyone. I just felt so alienated as a male. Nothing about me felt like a boy. Nothing.
My thoughts, my emotions, my perceptions; they were all very female in nature. And I totally identify with feeling shame as regards to my body. When I hit puberty, which was at 15, I was so ashamed of the change because it signified and solidified one very hardcore fact. My body was becoming a man and I was ashamed of it. When I looked at my genitals, and saw hair growing around it, I was so ashamed. That is really the only word to describe it. Shame. It is only in the last 7 years that I am connecting with my maleness. In a way I never thought possible. I never used to have short hair, I couldn't grow facial hair. I preferred more feminine clothing. I didn't identify with other males. But I had 30 years to basically make peace with the conflict in my mind and in my heart. Still even now I feel very female but having accepted my femaleness fully, (which very much involves the coming out process in it's fullness), and understanding that is where my strength comes from, gave me the secure vantage point with which to confront my maleness. I have been discovering my strength as a male, without shame. I find myself in a unique position, to be able to explore my strengths from both points of view. Had I decided to become female when I was younger, well I can't say that I wouldn't have had a happy existence, but I feel very satisfied that I was able to come to terms with the fact of the matter, which is that I am biologically male and that I didn't have to change what I am in order to find happiness and fulfillment. I think, like most things the child should have to wait until they are legally an adult for such a choice but I would not endorse torturing that child either with the fact they have to wait. Impatience is intrinsically an issue for children and you have to find ways to help them deal with that. I think that the child should have counseling, not necessarally to change their minds but to help them to come to grips with the fact of the situation and go from there. Then you are not transgender. Plain and simple. There is a difference between being, as you say, connected to your femininity, and knowing you are a woman. Plain and simple. There are more adult trans people who spend most of their lives trying to conform to the gender they were born with. They never come to terms with it. Many of these people don't transition until they are in their 40's and 50's. Many of the commit suicide before transitioning. This child actually voiced to her parents that she is a female. It is how her brain is wired. Someone being effeminate and feeling connected to women is not a transgender woman. Period. | |
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psychodelicide said: A transgender aka a person who was born one sex but had surgery to make themselves the opposite sex? Discuss.
Changed because I was using the wrong word edit [Edited 11/30/07 23:22pm] If I know BEFORE hand, no. And I'm answering the question just like that because there are some trannies out there that would never tell a man the truth until the friendship and/or relationship starts to become sexual. And yes, they're wrong for that. But it happens all the time. | |
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retina said: No way.
No matter how much he'd made himself look like a woman, he'd still be a man. In all fairness to the transgender communities all round the world, what if "she" no longer has a penis?!?  | |
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Janfriend said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: That story of Riley's is very touching but I am very torn on it. I am not sure about indulging a child at such a young age. When I was growing up, into my late teens (15-16) I was so connected to my femininity that I was convinced I would have to have a sex change in order to be happy. And this idea wasn't put into my head, nor suggested by anyone. I just felt so alienated as a male. Nothing about me felt like a boy. Nothing.
My thoughts, my emotions, my perceptions; they were all very female in nature. And I totally identify with feeling shame as regards to my body. When I hit puberty, which was at 15, I was so ashamed of the change because it signified and solidified one very hardcore fact. My body was becoming a man and I was ashamed of it. When I looked at my genitals, and saw hair growing around it, I was so ashamed. That is really the only word to describe it. Shame. It is only in the last 7 years that I am connecting with my maleness. In a way I never thought possible. I never used to have short hair, I couldn't grow facial hair. I preferred more feminine clothing. I didn't identify with other males. But I had 30 years to basically make peace with the conflict in my mind and in my heart. Still even now I feel very female but having accepted my femaleness fully, (which very much involves the coming out process in it's fullness), and understanding that is where my strength comes from, gave me the secure vantage point with which to confront my maleness. I have been discovering my strength as a male, without shame. I find myself in a unique position, to be able to explore my strengths from both points of view. Had I decided to become female when I was younger, well I can't say that I wouldn't have had a happy existence, but I feel very satisfied that I was able to come to terms with the fact of the matter, which is that I am biologically male and that I didn't have to change what I am in order to find happiness and fulfillment. I think, like most things the child should have to wait until they are legally an adult for such a choice but I would not endorse torturing that child either with the fact they have to wait. Impatience is intrinsically an issue for children and you have to find ways to help them deal with that. I think that the child should have counseling, not necessarally to change their minds but to help them to come to grips with the fact of the situation and go from there. Then you are not transgender. Plain and simple. There is a difference between being, as you say, connected to your femininity, and knowing you are a woman. Plain and simple. There are more adult trans people who spend most of their lives trying to conform to the gender they were born with. They never come to terms with it. Many of these people don't transition until they are in their 40's and 50's. Many of the commit suicide before transitioning. This child actually voiced to her parents that she is a female. It is how her brain is wired. Someone being effeminate and feeling connected to women is not a transgender woman. Period. Why are you hostile?  I easily could have nourished my feelings, thoughts and beliefs to the point of having a sex change. Easily. I felt exclusively female in every single way except my genitals. From the time I have memory even into my 20s. I was very tortured by it. Who's to say I'm not transgendered and just came to terms with reality?2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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And I love the term Ladyboy  2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Janfriend said: Then you are not transgender. Plain and simple. There is a difference between being, as you say, connected to your femininity, and knowing you are a woman. Plain and simple. There are more adult trans people who spend most of their lives trying to conform to the gender they were born with. They never come to terms with it. Many of these people don't transition until they are in their 40's and 50's. Many of the commit suicide before transitioning. This child actually voiced to her parents that she is a female. It is how her brain is wired. Someone being effeminate and feeling connected to women is not a transgender woman. Period. Why are you hostile? I easily could have nourished my feelings, thoughts and beliefs to the point of having a sex change. Easily. I felt exclusively female in every single way except my genitals. From the time I have memory even into my 20s. I was very tortured by it. Who's to say I'm not transgendered and just came to terms with reality?i think the decision to change should come over the first stages of puberty when one starts devolping sexual attractions. up until the 5th or 6th grade i wanted to be a girl. than puberty kicked in and i discovered what it meant to be gay... thanks Madge, and i realized i didn't want to be a girl but i was a gay boy. i also have a friend who was in the process of transtitioning at had been taking hormones for a year and then it dawned on him he wasn't really TG but just confused. Gender Dysphoria is not yet fully understood. [Edited 12/4/07 11:33am] You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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TonyVanDam said: retina said: No way.
No matter how much he'd made himself look like a woman, he'd still be a man. In all fairness to the transgender communities all round the world, what if "she" no longer has a penis?!? Wouldn't change my opinion. Being a man is about more than having a penis. | |
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Montel seems to be having some problems with the ideas of transgenders.
I didnt know that was still a hot topic for afternoon tv talkshows. | |
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 You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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ehuffnsd said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Why are you hostile? I easily could have nourished my feelings, thoughts and beliefs to the point of having a sex change. Easily. I felt exclusively female in every single way except my genitals. From the time I have memory even into my 20s. I was very tortured by it. Who's to say I'm not transgendered and just came to terms with reality?i think the decision to change should come over the first stages of puberty when one starts devolping sexual attractions. up until the 5th or 6th grade i wanted to be a girl. than puberty kicked in and i discovered what it meant to be gay... thanks Madge, and i realized i didn't want to be a girl but i was a gay boy. i also have a friend who was in the process of transtitioning at had been taking hormones for a year and then it dawned on him he wasn't really TG but just confused. Gender Dysphoria is not yet fully understood. [Edited 12/4/07 11:33am] And that is exactly why I think any transition should wait until adulthood.  I was ashamed to have a male body. Absolutely ashamed of it. I know that feeling and can identify with identifying as female on the inside. And I'm not saying that transgendered people just need therapy or time to change their mind. I'm just saying that those things should be explored so that person knows themself fully before making that kind of a change because once you do it, there's no going back.....2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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retina said: TonyVanDam said: In all fairness to the transgender communities all round the world, what if "she" no longer has a penis?!? Wouldn't change my opinion. Being a man is about more than having a penis. That's what I don't get about those procedures. I can understand cross dressing or even taking hormones, but surgery won't truly change your sex. It won't change your chromosomes or your ability to conceive a baby. It seems like a drastic measure and is kind of phony IMHO. I know people who've done it, and of course that's their choice and I will respect their decisions, but if I'm being honest I don't get it. My Legacy
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NDRU said: retina said: Wouldn't change my opinion. Being a man is about more than having a penis. That's what I don't get about those procedures. I can understand cross dressing or even taking hormones, but surgery won't truly change your sex. It won't change your chromosomes or your ability to conceive a baby. It seems like a drastic measure and is kind of phony IMHO. I know people who've done it, and of course that's their choice and I will respect their decisions, but if I'm being honest I don't get it. Exactly. | |
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NDRU said: retina said: Wouldn't change my opinion. Being a man is about more than having a penis. That's what I don't get about those procedures. I can understand cross dressing or even taking hormones, but surgery won't truly change your sex. It won't change your chromosomes or your ability to conceive a baby. It seems like a drastic measure and is kind of phony IMHO. I know people who've done it, and of course that's their choice and I will respect their decisions, but if I'm being honest I don't get it. Well I think for them it's the satisfaction of getting as close to their truth as possible 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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NDRU said: retina said: Wouldn't change my opinion. Being a man is about more than having a penis. That's what I don't get about those procedures. I can understand cross dressing or even taking hormones, but surgery won't truly change your sex. It won't change your chromosomes or your ability to conceive a baby. It seems like a drastic measure and is kind of phony IMHO. I know people who've done it, and of course that's their choice and I will respect their decisions, but if I'm being honest I don't get it. the same thing can be said for people who are gay it's not our place to understand. we have to accept them. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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NDRU said: retina said: Wouldn't change my opinion. Being a man is about more than having a penis. That's what I don't get about those procedures. I can understand cross dressing or even taking hormones, but surgery won't truly change your sex. It won't change your chromosomes or your ability to conceive a baby. It seems like a drastic measure and is kind of phony IMHO. I know people who've done it, and of course that's their choice and I will respect their decisions, but if I'm being honest I don't get it. I just accept it as something that I will never understand. I understand that transgendered people have this feeling but I don't understand what that feeling is and I don't think that I ever will. That doesn't mean that it's not real or serious, it's just something that I don't understand. Like calculus. | |
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ehuffnsd said: NDRU said: That's what I don't get about those procedures. I can understand cross dressing or even taking hormones, but surgery won't truly change your sex. It won't change your chromosomes or your ability to conceive a baby. It seems like a drastic measure and is kind of phony IMHO. I know people who've done it, and of course that's their choice and I will respect their decisions, but if I'm being honest I don't get it. the same thing can be said for people who are gay it's not our place to understand. we have to accept them. I agree with the second part completely. I don't agree with the first part because it's the surgery I don't understand, and gay people don't have to undergo drastic surgery on their most sensitive areas to live how they want. But like I said, I agree that it's not my pace to understand, or to judge, I was simply saying how I felt. My Legacy
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: NDRU said: That's what I don't get about those procedures. I can understand cross dressing or even taking hormones, but surgery won't truly change your sex. It won't change your chromosomes or your ability to conceive a baby. It seems like a drastic measure and is kind of phony IMHO. I know people who've done it, and of course that's their choice and I will respect their decisions, but if I'm being honest I don't get it. Well I think for them it's the satisfaction of getting as close to their truth as possible I'm sure that's true, like getting a nose job or any other plastic surgery. It's not "real" (their children will still have big noses!), but maybe it improves their self image. But I don't like the idea of plastic surgery either. It's just my personal feelings, but live and let live, right? My Legacy
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JasmineFire said: NDRU said: That's what I don't get about those procedures. I can understand cross dressing or even taking hormones, but surgery won't truly change your sex. It won't change your chromosomes or your ability to conceive a baby. It seems like a drastic measure and is kind of phony IMHO. I know people who've done it, and of course that's their choice and I will respect their decisions, but if I'm being honest I don't get it. I just accept it as something that I will never understand. I understand that transgendered people have this feeling but I don't understand what that feeling is and I don't think that I ever will. That doesn't mean that it's not real or serious, it's just something that I don't understand. Like calculus. Me, too. I don't understand it, but since I don't feel like I'm the wrong sex, I don't think I should understand the feelings that accompany it, either. as I said, I know people who've done the change, and since I would want people to respect my decisions about my life, I try to respect theirs, even if I don't fully understand them. [Edited 12/4/07 12:52pm] My Legacy
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NDRU said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Well I think for them it's the satisfaction of getting as close to their truth as possible I'm sure that's true, like getting a nose job or any other plastic surgery. It's not "real" (their children will still have big noses!), but maybe it improves their self image. But I don't like the idea of plastic surgery either. It's just my personal feelings, but live and let live, right? i think it's real to them. it's about the desire to reproduce but the desire to be the person they feel they are. http://www.gaylesbiantime...issue=1037 here's a great story about a transgender navy vet. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Janfriend said: Then you are not transgender. Plain and simple. There is a difference between being, as you say, connected to your femininity, and knowing you are a woman. Plain and simple. There are more adult trans people who spend most of their lives trying to conform to the gender they were born with. They never come to terms with it. Many of these people don't transition until they are in their 40's and 50's. Many of the commit suicide before transitioning. This child actually voiced to her parents that she is a female. It is how her brain is wired. Someone being effeminate and feeling connected to women is not a transgender woman. Period. Why are you hostile? I easily could have nourished my feelings, thoughts and beliefs to the point of having a sex change. Easily. I felt exclusively female in every single way except my genitals. From the time I have memory even into my 20s. I was very tortured by it. Who's to say I'm not transgendered and just came to terms with reality?It's transgender and not trangendered. You can say what you want, but there is no such thing as "coming to terms with reality" when someone is transgender. The brain is wired incorrectly in the womb and there will never be enough realization or therapy. The reality is they are in the wrong body. There is a such thing a "vagina envy" which is totally different. What you're saying is just as dangerous as someone saying they used to be gay. What the fuck ever dude | |
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ehuffnsd said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Why are you hostile? I easily could have nourished my feelings, thoughts and beliefs to the point of having a sex change. Easily. I felt exclusively female in every single way except my genitals. From the time I have memory even into my 20s. I was very tortured by it. Who's to say I'm not transgendered and just came to terms with reality?i think the decision to change should come over the first stages of puberty when one starts devolping sexual attractions. up until the 5th or 6th grade i wanted to be a girl. than puberty kicked in and i discovered what it meant to be gay... thanks Madge, and i realized i didn't want to be a girl but i was a gay boy. i also have a friend who was in the process of transtitioning at had been taking hormones for a year and then it dawned on him he wasn't really TG but just confused. Gender Dysphoria is not yet fully understood. [Edited 12/4/07 11:33am] WTF????? Being transgender has absolutely NOTHING to do with sexual orientation AT ALL! | |
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NDRU said: retina said: Wouldn't change my opinion. Being a man is about more than having a penis. That's what I don't get about those procedures. I can understand cross dressing or even taking hormones, but surgery won't truly change your sex. It won't change your chromosomes or your ability to conceive a baby. It seems like a drastic measure and is kind of phony IMHO. I know people who've done it, and of course that's their choice and I will respect their decisions, but if I'm being honest I don't get it. What would you know about someone chromosomes besides what you are assuming by looking at them? There are truly intersex people out there. There people with XXY and XYY. What the fuck does it matter what they're chromosomes are. What you see isn't necessarily what you think you're going to get. I guess every natural-born male and female can conceive a child too, right? If you don't understand it, move on | |
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Janfriend said: ehuffnsd said: i think the decision to change should come over the first stages of puberty when one starts devolping sexual attractions. up until the 5th or 6th grade i wanted to be a girl. than puberty kicked in and i discovered what it meant to be gay... thanks Madge, and i realized i didn't want to be a girl but i was a gay boy. i also have a friend who was in the process of transtitioning at had been taking hormones for a year and then it dawned on him he wasn't really TG but just confused. Gender Dysphoria is not yet fully understood. [Edited 12/4/07 11:33am] WTF????? Being transgender has absolutely NOTHING to do with sexual orientation AT ALL! WTF????? Do you read anything or just assume everything everyone else says is wrong and you have the only right answer????? You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: Janfriend said: WTF????? Being transgender has absolutely NOTHING to do with sexual orientation AT ALL! WTF????? Do you read anything or just assume everything everyone else says is wrong and you have the only right answer????? I read what you said and wanting to be a girl has nothing to do with being a gay male or have you not read the research on that? | |
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Janfriend said: ehuffnsd said: WTF????? Do you read anything or just assume everything everyone else says is wrong and you have the only right answer????? I read what you said and wanting to be a girl has nothing to do with being a gay male or have you not read the research on that? i guess the answer you only have the right answers and don't lecutre me on TG issues please. many of my friends are TG. once again i was expressing my personal experience but you fail to read. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: Janfriend said: I read what you said and wanting to be a girl has nothing to do with being a gay male or have you not read the research on that? i guess the answer you only have the right answers and don't lecutre me on TG issues please. many of my friends are TG. once again i was expressing my personal experience but you fail to read. Excuse you, you were the one who said i think the decision to change should come over the first stages of puberty when one starts devolping sexual attractions. Go talk that shit at a transgender conference. Whatever answers I have given are based on my involvement in the trans community, books, documentaries, and the National Center for Transgender equality, not a fucking personal opinion. You can give all the opinions you want, but when you insinuate that sexual orientation is a factor you help the already ignorant become even more ignorant to this subject [Edited 12/4/07 19:46pm] | |
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Janfriend said: ehuffnsd said: i guess the answer you only have the right answers and don't lecutre me on TG issues please. many of my friends are TG. once again i was expressing my personal experience but you fail to read. Excuse you, you were the one who said i think the decision to change should come over the first stages of puberty when one starts devolping sexual attractions. Go talk that shit at a transgender conference. Whatever answers I have given are based on my involvement in the trans community, books, documentaries, and the National Center for Transgender equality, not a fucking personal opinion. You can give all the opinions you want, but when you insinuate that sexual orientation is a factor you help the already ignorant become even more ignorant to this subject [Edited 12/4/07 19:46pm] save it and how's the weather up there on your horse? You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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ehuffnsd said: Janfriend said: Excuse you, you were the one who said i think the decision to change should come over the first stages of puberty when one starts devolping sexual attractions. Go talk that shit at a transgender conference. Whatever answers I have given are based on my involvement in the trans community, books, documentaries, and the National Center for Transgender equality, not a fucking personal opinion. You can give all the opinions you want, but when you insinuate that sexual orientation is a factor you help the already ignorant become even more ignorant to this subject [Edited 12/4/07 19:46pm] save it and how's the weather up there on your horse? Uh huh. Whatever the fuck that means. What if I said gay people should have sex with at least 100 people of the opposite sex and have extensive therapy before choosing to me gay because I know people who were confused. Have all the opinions you want. I don't give a shit | |
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