Well looks like things are moving quick...They voted friday...My son Michael in the US Army (currently in Germany) was suppose to return home for the holiday's but called me yesterday (saturday) and said he (his platoon) just recieved notice they are being deployed...SOON they start training and preparing them for biological and chemical warfare (shots) and all... ...For anybody else who has loved ones and even for those who we do not know...Lets keep them in our thoughts... try and support them...(the troops)!
[This message was edited Mon Oct 14 7:18:01 PDT 2002 by OCEANA]

OCEANA said:

Wow Oceana, I wish your son well.

I wish your son and everyone else involved in this endeavor well.

Thank you 2the9's! I am still trying to absorb this news...

Moonbeam said:

Thank you MoonBeam...But you know..coming to the org will help...I get many laughs from some orgers and responses and sinse yesterday I have really been upset...I know I have and those who have loved ones going, do have support...

OCEANA said:

I'm glad that you are finding an outlet. I wish you well as well!

You have my sympathy. However, I can not feel sorry because whoever joins the US forces is at high risk of actually thrown into war. Its a risk one should be aware of if signing up. My feelings go out to the ones who have to go, but also to the many iraqian soldiers and civilians who will definetely lose their lives in this struggle---
what most people dont know is that war has already begun.. silently... parts of southern iraq are currently beging bombed, I guess they will move in with ground forces early 2003.


[This message was edited Mon Oct 14 0:33:33 PDT 2002 by soulpower]

Hey don`t read too much into it. I don`t know if his message said where he was being deployed too; but I doubt it because the "ground pounders" are always the last ones to know. Moreover it could just be training; or his unit (not platoon) could be moved into another units position which is being redeployed somewhere somewhere else. Finally all active duty US forces are being given advanced training in NBC (Nuclear-Biological-Chemical) warfare. Also all personal on active duty will soon start getting vaccinated for some of the more nasty Bio/Chem weapons out there. Just because your son is going to be getting a series of shots doesn`t mean that he is off to war.



PS. Id just like to tell soulpussy to fuck-off twice over (but then again I have come to expect this `head-in-the-sand attitude` from many Europeans). Its obvious that he has never had the courage to serve in uniform. Id like to know where you get your intel from concerning the "bombing of southern Iraq" comes from (from The Sun possibly?). To set the record straight attacks from Allied aircraft in BOTH the northern and southern no-fly-zones has been going on since 1992. Furthermore the "bombing" you mention happens AFTER allied aircraft come under HOSTILE targeting or tracking from Iraqi anti-aircraft radars. Don`t warp the facts my European lacky.

soulpower said:

Thank you SoulPower...Sympathy is not needed I feel in times like this those of us with loved ones in harms way need more support than sympathy, but thank you anyway. ...Yes you are very correct in you're way of thinking as far as "whoever joins the US forces has a high risk of actually being thrown into war". My son when joining as his 7 uncles did does not see it as a risk when actually signing up...He signed up right out of high school. He had 3 years ROTC and he was well aware of his decision. Even though I asked him to take a break before joining...I asked him to join in September and enjoy summer break...He joined in July as he was eager to serve his country...I as a mother, once he turns 18 and decides his way in life can do nothing but SUPPORT HIM! If he and MOST serving had the attitude of " I must not join and serve my country war might break out" than we would not be so blessed to live in this country. I can not say MOST people do not know this or that because at this time in the United States after 9/11 most do keep more aware of what is really going on. Of course he/she (those) with a heart would feel for ANY and ALL who lose life...Even the ones fighting for Saddam (Iraq). Poor souls have NO CHOICE...Our men did when they joined. Where as Saddam just throws anybody in to fight...MEN old and young, woman, children...And it is these same men, old, woman and children who end up suffering...WE even I as a mother of a son in harms way can ("TRY") and go on shop, eat, bathe, sleep...as you said alot of people will be killed and effected by this. BUT we as the USA have our hands tied in MOST situations...We are damned if we do and we are damned if we dont...my only interest is in the troops who are brave enough to fight for what they believe in and have symphathy for the ones who only join because this is there only way out of certain situations and sometimes the only opportunity for an education they would not be able to get due to lack of finances. So we do, the ones who know what IS GOING ON behind closed doors do feel for ALL who will lose life!

I am sure in time, time approaching soon there will be more of us, YOU, somebody who also will have a loved one or be the friend or supporter of somebody going. This should be for us to support and orgnote or email each other. Please lets not make this a POLITICAL thread...OR an "Oceana thread" As I was already accused of by another orger. Lets keep it possitive and supportive...for all...because when the time comes all of us (or most) of us will feel some effect in one way or another.

funkbible said:

FUNKBIBLE, yes you are correct in many ways...But my son already told me when and where he (his platoon) will be going. He is US ARMY MP..Thank you for your possitiveness though. ...Those nasty shots Yucky!

funkbible said:

Funkbible, you are right I have never "served" in uniform (the way you addapt military language shows me the hostility of your soul). I had the guts to say: "Sorry, uh huh, I anint gonna kill somebody who hasnt done shit to me." Saddam hasnt done shit to you, nor did he harm you in any way, nor has he actually threatend you. You are right, the US have been constantly bombing the iraq since 1991 (not 92), thats what I was trying to tell you. That bombing and the unhuman sanctions your country put over Iraq (they have tightened them up over the years, which is a violation against UN resolutions btw) has cost 500,000 civilans their lives, half of them children under 5. So no, I never had the courage to participate in those killings, who are a slap in the face of humanity, just as 9/11 was. Because I didnt "serve" a country that has broken more UN violations under the current Bush administration than the rest of the world in the past 20 years I am certain that I am standing on the right side. I sleep well, my brother. Do you?

Oceana, whenever you feel like laughing, let me know.
I'll do my best.

yesterday was fun, wasn't it?

Heavenly said:

LOL...Heavenly, just thinking about you makes me laugh! ...Thanks!

Well OCEANA I do of course wish your son well but I'd imagine that the innocent unarmed Iraqi civilians are the ones who need all our good wishes.

ian said:

Yes agree ian! But we also as the USA tend to do our best for the civilians of those we have war with even if it is to help, feed and protect them. This as I said is NOT about MY son...I have a support team...I just want others for the near future who feel they have no support we are here for them...P.org is also in other countries as well and many orgers are in the US military or married to a US soldier ... to all!

OCEANA said:

This is absolutely false. The US developed the war against civilians to perfection in the past 50 years. Vietnam is only one example. I could again post a list that shows how many innocent people have died in the past 30 US war engagements, and you will see that those numbers in comparism to the numbers of dead US soldiers are incredible high. In Afghanistan US troops have attacked civil weddings, knowingly killing numerous of civilians. The total death toll of innocent people in afghanistan is estimated somewhere between 4000 and 8000 people (Amnesty International). Why? Because the US want to avoid own casualties.
You are talking about feeding the people? The US have dropped about 40,000 lunch bags over Afghanistan -- those bags would have fed 40,000 out of 6 million starving people on one day! Now the real ugly thing is that those packages were dropped with yellow parachutes... the same they use to drop cluster bombs with. Now you can imagine how many children have died running to the falling parachutes thinking they were food...
Since the US engagement in Iraq in 1990 500,000 civilans have died, half of them children under five.
Seriously Ocena, the US should have long been on many war trials. And that is why your government does not acknowledge the International War Crime Tribunale in The Hague. The first people to put up there would have to be W, Rumsfeld and Franks.
Dont believe the hype, sister. You'd believe propaganda. The same propaganda the Germans believed when the government told them that the jews were deported to work in eastern europe. We all know where they truly ended up.

My sis just got back from Uman...No, not David Bowie's wife Iman..

Heres good news Oceana...During the prediction segment of McLaughlin Group...John McLaughlin, extreme conservative politico god, predicted that there would be no Iraq war...

and think about it for a second, Bush has backed down from his "war now" stance...and Iraq has agreed to UN sanctions...Inspectors are prepared and ready to go on...

Saddam is not a stupid man...He remembers the pounding that his land took (I say land because he doesnt give a rats arse about his people) during the last war. He knows his fighters are not loyal to him and they only serve out of fear...

But, by standing up to Bush, Saddam has gained sympathy (and some might say, respect) from many eastern nations... Bush ends up looking like a bigger idiot then his Dad for allowing Saddam to stay in power..But, what else can Bush do? I bet you Saddam was expecting this, all along...all along. errr!!!

Well, I haven't got a notice yet, but if I do, it will be appropriately smoking in a burn pile in my backyard with all the other leaves and miscellaneous trash.

soulpower said:

SoulPower from what I understand your profession is to report, most reporters know their history. Do you know your country's WW II history? Your
SS and Gestapo alone killed many innocent people.
Have you heard of the Nuremberg Trials and Hitler's desire
for world domination? That is all in the history books my
friend . The German Army of WW II and it's leaders were the
ultimate war criminals just like Tojo was for Japan. We the
liberators (U.S. and it's Allies) could have left your
country just the way they were - in ruins - but instead
rebuilt it with the Marshall Plan (if I can remember you and I had this conversation many months ago). You are familiar with the cause and effect of the Marshall Plan. It paved the way for your country to be the way it is now. Free and Democratic and prosperous (which is why I do not understand your bitter resent to the U.S.) .. Who's bright idea was it at that time to
spend billions of American money to rebuilt your country's
infrastructure. Anyway, U.S. leaders of today, Pres. Bush and his top cabinet still follow the same compassion and desire
whenever they decide to take military action and yes sometimes I agree and sometimes I do not but first and foremost, just like ANY other leader of any nation, his first duties it to protect its national security. When Sept
11th happened, we had to take military action. An act of
"self-defense" to protect our way of life. Unfortunately it
was Afghanistan. Our leaders goal was to destroy the terrorist threat (Al Queda) and to remove those who harbor them (Taliban). As in all wars, innocent people get killed
even our own troops periodically get killed. It's called
fracticide or friendly fire incidents. You mentioned about those meals that were dropped from our Air Force planes that
resembled cluster bombs. Of all your arguements, this one I agree DID HAPPEN, however, our military leaders realized that the COLOR of the meals were the same color of those
cluster bombs that they were dropping on the terrorist but After
it was discovered, the U.S. company who packaged the meals CHANGED the color to BLUE instead of yellow/orange ..But our intention was not to kill innocent children as you claim. Why dont you mention this is your reply/respond to me. Yes, during combat things go wrong. People die innocently including those in the purported wedding party. Deep down in my heart, I believe the U.S. forces at the scene made a mistake.(come on now...this was a war zone why were they haveing a wedding?)
Our troops fired only when they were fired upon. Our 4-Star
General toured the village and tried to make amends. At the
same time, our troops investigated the incident. What you do
NOT know (and if you did you SHOULD have mentioned it) is that during one of the tours, a U.S. soldier saw a
FRESHLY MADE DRAWING of an AAA GUN (anti-aircraft artillery gun) depictedly shooting at a helicopter. I find it very interesting that when asked the villagers about the drawing, they
said that it was drawn during the Soviet-Afghan war of the
1980's . Funny, if it was an old drawing, carved or painted 20 years ago. Why did it come right off when the U.S. soldier touched it? Obviously it was drawn very recently.
I think the villagers were shooting at our helicopters and
someone wanted to record it somehow. If you don't believe this story. Do some research. If you are going to tell a side which is your side of a story you have to tell the WHOLE truth. Not calling you a liar but dont believe the hype SP, you would only believe propaganda!

Oceana you are a spin-doctor's dream come true, if you seriously buy all that stuff

I don't even know where to begin with that post. Perhaps I'll sleep on it and someone more eloquent than I can respond ...

ian said:

...Give it a shot ian! I have always thought of you as eloquent!

Oceana, your interpretation of history is extremely basic. There are many reasons why the US helped rebuild Europe. Basically, they either had to help or watch communism gain ground and risk another war (the punitive terms of surrender imposed on Germany following the first world war had a lot to do with the rise of Hitler) . It wasn't just out of the goodness of their yankee hearts.

Also, the US only entered WWII after Pearl Harbor, many months after the beginning of the war, and they did so because the war came to them and they found themselves at war with Hitler's ally, Japan.

Saddam cannot be compared to Hitler in terms of the military threat he poses. Germany had one of the most modern and powerful arsenal in the world. Saddam's might isn't very mighty at all. In fact, he must be flattered that his weapons are the talk of the world.

Aerogram said:

Yes he is probably flattered that HE and his "weapons" are the talk of the world...He does not have any that we know of...It is the chemical and biological warfare that is a threat to us and not only to us the USA but to other countries at some time in the future...And we do not even know if he has nuclear weapons...But chemical and biological is BAD ENOUGH!

My prayers go out to you & your family for the safe return of your son. As a mother myself I feel your concern. But lets pray that cool heads will prevail and the testosterone levels are low.

___

...Mommy, why does everybody have a bomb?

Ghandi did military service because he believed that if he was going to benefit from the safety and security his country was providing him, it would be cowardly of him to sit around and protest while that safety and security were being defended, even thought he was a pacifist and didn't agree with the means.

I'm not sure his reasoning was flawless, but it makes this pacifist think.

I hope your son stays safe, Oceana.

Doves,
Mel!ssa

My prayers goes to U and ur son and to all
the sons and daughters in/going to war.

SweeTea said:

Thank you SweeTea! ...and agree w/u..

tackam said:

Thanks Melissa (tackam)...I feel you! .. I feel much better today than the day I found out with all the thoughts and prayers being sent my way...I feel them all...Plus I have to stay strong for my other children who are worried for big brother..He is the oldest and the younger ones 11 and 12 yr-olds only hear WAR and Iraq and this scares them...They love big brother...to them he is a hero...

Question2002 said:

Yes Question2002...Prayers to all ...and you are so kind...Thank you for your thoughts.