This thread indicates failure on so many levels and I don't feel good about any of this. My sister had kids with a maniac and his influence on them is a large reason why they are such heinous kids. He has done the damage and it is up to me and my family to do our best to clean it up and make things right. I know that they are the way they are for a reason and it's hard most days to keep positive in light of the fact that they are just so hateful. This breaks my heart in so many ways and I always try and catch myself when interacting and dealing with them. Instinctually I want to punish the hell out of them but how can I not take into account their past and how it has created them to be who they are?

The older and youngest of my nephews with my sister closest in age to me, for the most part are controllable. They act out and stuff but mostly it can be dealt with in a reasonable manner. The middle nephew, I literally hate.. I find no joy in stating that about a 13 year old or about my own flesh and blood but I do. I hate him. Of the 3 boys, he is the most like his father and I am not hating for the fact that I hate his father, which I do with all my heart.

It's not one of those kind of things how like a mom will take things out on their child for simply looking like the man that has hurt them. I hate him for the way he acts, how selfish he is and how straight out evil he is. My sister has threatened to drop him with his dad and leave him and as much of a relief as it would be to have him out of the household, I cannot in good concience turn him over to the very person that ruined him. What would he be like with his wretched father's constant influence? I shudder to even contemplate it.

This child has a way of creating major chaos and havoc and when the whole household is in an uproar, he just steps to the side and stands back and smiles at his creation. I have seen this exact thing with him. He will start shit with his brothers, lie about how it all came about, whip them into a frenzy and when I or my mom or sister or someone else steps in to try and gain control of it, the one person who is responsible for creating all this madness is either standing to the side in admiration of what he has done, or disappears leaving just chaos. And yes, I know there are ways of dealing with a child but I am not the supernanny and damnit, I haven't the first clue on how to appropriately approach this thing.

Just over the weekend, there was a situation that I literally am in fear of. It was 2:15 on Sunday and I heard a blaring horn outside our house and I knew it had to be their dad. I pulled the curtain to take a look outside and saw a vehicle speeding off. The vehicle made a turn and passed our house as if it was to exit the neighborhood and then about 30 seconds later I heard screeching tires and screaming. It was him. I saw him lifting things and throwing them out of the bed of his truck.

And had I not known who this was, or could understand what he was screaming, honestly I would have believed a woman was being murdered and stabbed to death. That is the extent of the hysterics and the way in which he was losing his mind. I have heard him scream many many times and this was just, I don't know. I mean he came completely undone and it was absolutely terrifying.

I saw him run to the side of the house where my sister and the kids sleep and I instantly ran to the phone and dialed 911. My sister came running out of the house to the front yard and he was screaming that he hated her, that he wanted to be left alone, that she ruined his life and all this stuff and he was just still completely hysterical. The cops came pulling up and my sister said things were OK and that he was leaving but they still stopped him anyway. The way this is unfolding could come back to haunt my family and I pray to God that it doesn't but things have gotten much larger and more complicated because of the cops involvement. Right away they identified us as the house who made the phone call I know they identified us to my sister when she first went out but I am not sure if they identified us to him.

Honestly, people wonder why the police aren't trusted. I do not trust them, I hate them, even to the point I am glad when I see one of them die. I know there are many good cops but just the way they would just ID us when the situation is so scary and one of the big reasons people don't report shit because the cops cannot be trusted to keep anybody's confidence. It's not happening to them and as far as they are concerned, they could give a shit less what the people have to deal with once they leave. I FUCKING HATE THE COPS.

After everything is said and done, guess who was in the middle of all of this. Yes, my middle nephew. He has a way of pestering till he gets his way. I can say no to him until the cows come home. I have no problem in not giving in when he wants something. But he can and will work you until your last nerves snap. You cannot reason with him, and at 13 he has the ability to know right from wrong but if you don't have money and he's asking for it he will ask and ask and when you explain to him why he cannot have it, he thinks you're lying and continues to ask and ask. This doesn't phase me in the slightest. I can go the distance on this shit and I don't care if he asks me for 24 hours straight, he aint getting shit if he doesn't deserve it. But my sister is a different story. After working all day and then dealing with all 3 of the boys, plus the baby, her tolerance level isn't what mine will be.

So Sunday he was working on his homework, late of course, and needed help with a math problem none of us could figure out. And he was nagging my sister to call his dad so he could help him but knowing his dad, didn't want to involve him because of the headache it is just dealing with him and he nagged and nagged and nagged and nagged and nagged and nagged until my sister said Fuck it and dropped him off where his dad was and told him to deal with it. And I guess his dad had been up for 5 days, on drugs of course, and my nephew worked him to the point of where this whole thing came to take place. My nephew actually jumped out of the car and jumped the fence and the wall in our backyard because apparently he was flipping out the whole way to drop my nephew off at home while talking to my sister on the phone and my nephew thought he was going to attack him.

And so this whole situation has happened and when we were trying to explain to him the ramifications of what happened he defends his dad, which I can understand because children love their parents no matter what, especially when they are kids. But you know, he could give a shit less if someone ended up dead. He wouldn't care. He's at the center of all this attention and that's what he cares about and what he loves and I HATE HIM FOR THIS.

Honestly, if something bad happened to that kid, I would be devastated because deep down I do love him and I feel like shit that this is the state of things and how I feel but I honestly just don't even know how to deal with this. It just feels like everything positive I do or try to do is not rewarded and this kid has always been this way but it's getting worse because of puberty and I do not look forward to the coming years because of him.

I don't know if there is anything anyone can offer in the way of advice. I just don't know. I am doing my best to work my way towards healing and a whole self and this thing makes me feel like a complete failure and I just don't know what to do. I'm so frustrated.

UHG!

horatio said:

Be glad you aren't in the care of any children!

You aren't are you?

And thanks

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

hell no, i dislike children in general.

horatio said:

You aren't helping

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

i get pissed at the parents too. one they usually shouldnt have children in the first place. two, if they suddenly start crying then its always 'what did you do?'

Like last week I was talking to a friend on the phone and she gave the phone to her 5 or 6 year old daughter, and she said 'who is this?' and i said,'your mommy's friend' and then she said 'oooh'. Which I thought was kinda cute and I said 'ooh' back then she just started bawling her ass off.
then her mom, my friend got back on the phone and was like, "What did you do to her?" in a nasty tone
she already knows i dont care for children anyhow.

Orgnote sent your way.

That's rough. Tell him you love him but you don't like him and if he's interested in why you don't like him, all he has to do is ask and you can tell him why.

He'll ask you in a couple days or so. But until then, just ignore him. Tell him, "Like I said - I love you but I don't like you so we don't need to be interacting".

Kinda rough but it might work. Everyone wants to be liked.

RodeoSchro said:

OMG! I wish it was that easy There is no way to not interact with this child. I don't know if the Supernanny could crack this shit. Really, I don't.

MoniGram said:

Thank you Moni for your advice I will not write him off and will try and try and try again. Obviously that kid works my last nerves to or I wouldn't have made this thread.

Richie, just a few things; this will be random, but I truly hope it can help. I'm probably going to have more questions than answers, however.

Please don't take it the wrong way, either. Just a breath of fresh air from a third party. I am so sorry about this shitty situation.

He's 13. That means a few things: He is too young to understand his dad's a bad father. So, don't expect him to get it until he wants to get it. This also means that if you or your sister are telling him anything negative about his dad (such as what he does), or even the fact that he's a bad man, is psychological abuse (because he's got a child's mind. Don't introduce hate or confusion--he will respect and trust you less). It won't get you anywhere, and will cause more arguments. He WILL act out because of how much the truth hurts him. He's DYING for boundaries. I realize your sister's got three plates full and then some, but the more she gives in to demands of any kind, he'll ask for more. Seriously. Lovingly cracking the whip at an early age prevents many awful things--does she want him to establish worse behavioral problems? Bad grades? Drug use? Or how about turning out like his father? Statistics exist for a reason. Most people would call me a liberal, but when it comes to kids and their futures, I am Rush Limbaugh. Let them walk all over you and they'll walk all over themselves. The previous few sentences was extreme, yes. But with cops, drugs, and abuse already in his life, can you really disagree? If your sis takes a stand now (whether that's free counseling, designating mom-son times, etc), she'll be sleeping better when he's a teenager.

He's a middle child. That means everything you might think it might. The oldest child has the perks of experiencing everything first: praise, progression, and it's all new for the parent. The oldest gets the most new clothing, the most protective childhood. The youngest receives the most compassion, forgiveness and maternal cushion, generally. I'm not spouting BS--I'm a middle child to six (or nine, depending on how you look at it) stepsiblings and it was horrific. Xplnyrslf, please don't ask for links. I'm talking about this boy's state of mind. Despite the fact that there is centuries of documentation on birth order statistics, this boy you can't stand feels he's getting the short end of the stick from his parents. Even if I were wrong, his feelings are valid.

HIS DAD IS A PIECE OF SHIT. If you MUST feel hatred for this underage family member, try and deflect it to the dad. This kid is just a kid. He needs more than what he's getting.

* Can she obtain more custody? She's got proof of drug use and erratic behavior, no? This guy needs to be banned from seeing his children. Period.
* Please give the police a little more credit. Use them at your disposal. If you believe they're the enemy, they ARE.
* Reduce your fear of your sister's ex. It enables him and weakens YOU.
* Be there for your sis (I'm sure you already are).

INSATIABLE said:

Jana, I'm going to come back to this but thank you for your input

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Whew!
You did the right thing calling the police. What if the father had a weapon? The neighbors themselves, could have called, with all the rukus, if you hadn't. If he is taking drugs, that are uppers (meth, crack) anything is possible, and your sister could be in danger.

I think you hate the child's behavior, not the person himself.
Chances are, he senses your dislike of him.
I'm no counselor and one would certainly help. Is it possible to give him attention in another way, such as take him to a movie, do something he likes, without siblings?
With counseling, the family could work together, and be consistant on dealing with behavioral issues. A third party who is objective is more apt to be listened to....
I would make one firm rule.....do not drop the boy off, at the fathers, out of frustration. Period.....dad's doing drugs, and the message he's getting: you don't care about him. The dad is a terrible role model and supervised visits should be a requirement.
Don't give up on the nephew.....

INSATIABLE said:

What? Me ask for links??? NEVER!!

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I knew you weren't the kind of man to do that. I knew you would continue to undo the harm that man did to him. Your nephew is very lucky to have you in his life! Kids can drive you nuts..trust me I know! Like I said..you are in my thoughts.

xplnyrslf said:

Absolutely. Richie, I know your frustration and pain are FRESH wounds. When I babysit my friends' two kids (the only kids I've ever watched), it's literally a secret emotional rollercoaster for me the entire time. I experience rejection, fear, elation, extreme frustration, and tiny, tiny moments of bliss. Friggin' kids.





YES. Richie, these kids have a violent drug user as a father. And he's got CUSTODY!


This is so incredibly important. It is SO integral to his confidence, self-esteem and self-worth to know his mother loves him and sees him as unique and beautiful. All siblings deserve 1-on-1 time with their parents. Even once a week, or 15 minutes a day. They need to be reminded regularly that they're the center of mommy's universe. When she sighs and unloads him on that freak, what is that saying to your nephew?


Please, Richard. Print this shit out for her or something. Please, don't let those kids around that psycho in his current state. PLEASE

That boy loves you, Richard. Don't let him get the upper hand and make you believe he doesn't. He's acting out for a reason, and that reason is crystal clear.

Oh, and one last thing: You're not a bad person for experiencing this hatred. You're not a bad person for experiencing this hatred. You're not a bad person for experiencing this hatred. You're not a bad person for experiencing this hatred.

Love you.

Have you seen the 1993 movie "The Good Son" with Macaulay Culkin and Elijah Wood? The mother chose to let her son played by Macauley die because he was PURE EVIL.

However, we won't go that far. The solution to your problem is two words:

MILITARY SCHOOL

St. Johns Military School, Grades 7-12, Salina, Kansas is a great one. I use to threaten to send my nephew there when he was acting up. I gave him the three strikes he's out speech and told him he wouldn't see a family member until he was 18 with a high school diploma. Now he's on the straight and narrow track in life.

I also recommend military schools in Alaska. It's nothing like darkness for months and extreme cold weather that would make a preteen beg for forgiveness to be among the living in the lower 48.

A preteen male in the year 2007 must be put in check. These boys have been reared in a world of extreme violence where they believe another human life has no value. That way of thinking must be stopped and only TOUGH LOVE will change those thought patterns. I hate to say it, but parents and family members are disrespected by out-of-control preteens. It takes a stranger to change a person's attitude. And the best stranger for your 13-year-old nephew is a military boarding school.

Too lazy to read entire thread.....but I do know that any child that doesn't receive the love and attention they need, can not give love and understanding in return. Sounds like this child needs someone to snatch him up in love and correct his aggressive behavior with lots of attention and constructive activity, and lots of love, advise, and encouragement. Hugs and family counseling will also help.

When someone gives you a stone...you give them bread.

This child also needs a safe haven and some consistency, he needs someone in his life to show him that life isn't so dismal, he needs someone that's going to be honest, and a "straight-shooter", that will answer all of his questions about his own situation so that he can learn to make sense out of his chaotic enviorment. He needs a loving and firm hand, one that won't let go or falter when things get rough. He just needs a good guide....he sounds like a smart kid, so don't be condescending towards him, just be honest and loving.He is a teenager, a hard time of adjustment for any kid, let alone his situation.

Go to him and tell him he can count on you if he ever needs someone to talk to, that you love him, and that he will be OK if he learns to trust. Your anger is understandable, be honest about that too with him.


Love, Painted lady



[Edited 11/13/07 19:42pm]
[Edited 11/13/07 19:45pm]
[Edited 11/13/07 19:51pm]

Next time your nephew has a math problem, post it here....(have him start his homework earlier)
You can title it: "Org math challenge of the day."
I'm a little rusty, but I took algebrae, trig, and physics, in college.

incognito said:

In the 1960's, this was routinely done. It worked. Only, it was the Marines, and a parent could arrange for their son to enlist under the age of 18.....times have change, though.
In a relative's case in 1968, it kept him from inevitable jail. (he was a Golden Gloves champ who loved to fight) He's now a retired recruiter, with a fat pension, age 55.
The military solution isn't politicly correct these days.

[Edited 11/13/07 19:29pm]

Oh darling pookie pumpkin....

I feel your pain more than you could ever know.

It feels like the most frustrating thing that could happen to you.

INSATIABLE said:

HOT DAMN!!! I love you to death! The voice of reason you are!

Everyone, thank you! I don't hate "him", I hate his "actions". That is correct The shit that is going down right now is very hardcore and I honestly fear for the lives of my entire family. The cops cut him a "deal" and I'm not going to extrapolate on what that is but suffice it to say, this could boomerang back on us in a massive way and quite frankly I'm terrified. I have been so fearful of all this shit for a long time and tomorrow I am taking some steps:

• finding out how to get my sister out from under the loan she co-signed for that ass so it is one less link between them.
  
• Finding tutorial help for my nephew.
  
• Going to the police, even though i hate them and they cannot be trusted....but what can I do? I have to go to them.
  
• Calling my HR department for resources on how the hell I can navigate my way through this madness.

My sister obviously isn't making rational choices because had I been home when she wanted to drop him off I would have smacked her ass in the head and said hell no. She threatens to hand him over to his father because of how big a problem he is and I have already said HELL NO to that, no matter what kind of relief would come from not having his antics in that household. I will not solve the situation in that manner.

I'll come back to your guys's thoughts tomorrow. I really really REALLY need support in all this. I'm scared and I'm overwhelmed and I pray that I can do the right things.....

.
[Edited 11/13/07 20:09pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

You CAN. You WILL. You're an incredibly passionate force to be reckoned with!

And I am here for you 24/7!!! Please let me/us know if there's anything we can do or look up for you!!!

If there's a reason for your sister to fear for her safety, or has psychological abuse, there is a domestic violence hotline available in every community. Counseling is free, for your sister and family, and confidentiality is maintained. It can also lead to other community services you may not be aware of.
When the father shows up, and causes problems; pick up the phone, dial 911 and get the situation documented with the PD. YOU made the call for your protection.
This will of course, require your sister's cooperation.

OMG

OK, he's 13 and that means he's gonna be one angry kid for a while. Have you considered a program like Big Brothers/Big Sisters?

He needs a stable male role model, and if you can't be it cause of your feelings to him, he needs SOMEONE.

Also, he probably needs his ass beat from time to time. That boy needs to fear his mom. Sorry folks--I'm a bleeding heart , but when it comes to rearing kids, they need to learn the law of the house. The number duty is raise a young, productive , law abiding citizen.


And I don't mean beat his ass literally. Well, I don't mean it all the time.


I really sympathize for your situation. I had a best friend who was that 13 year old boy you described. He ended up being a great young man. He grew out of it.

But in your situation, I don't know. Do you think he has to potential to be criminal? He really needs a role model.

Sweetness, I'm so sorry this is happening to you and your dear family.

I can't post my thoughts on the matter any better than INSATIABLE already has.

You and your family are in my prayers.

Imago said:

I have said this repeatedly over many years. When I was growing up in my parents house, I had a healthy amount of respect for them and a small amount of fear. Not too much fear, mind you. Not enough that it affected my closeness to them, but rather just enough to make me think twice about ever disrespecting them or their house.

I don't think enough kids have that fear of their parents. It's fine and dandy to be a friend to your children, but you have to be a parent first. Everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.