INSATIABLE said:

TY for sharing your perspective

INSATIABLE said:

Humans are not designed to deal with death, no matter how hard we try it is alien, no matter how expected .....

applekisses said:

Totally agree. And I am so sorry.


I feel the exact same way with my Opa. I want to scream and break things because I will never, ever see him again. I need to know he's gone. Even typing about it is maddening. It's equally as horrific right now for me as it was when my dad called me with the news.

mdiver said:

Some ... perhaps even most


though

some are/can deal with death quite well

Thank you, Mach and Phil.

mdiver said:

Definitely. But I wonder if there's something unhealthy about me (considering my age) when I say that it'll be a relief when this 'phase' is over.

INSATIABLE said:

I was the same with my grandfather...i was away working in Denmark and when i left i knew i would never see him again....the day i heard i could not get a flight home so i went out and drank to him.....and drank....and drank,,,,i wanted to shout and scream and hurt people because i hurt so bad.....death is unfathomable

mdiver said:

Man, I truly know exactly how you felt that night in Denmark. It makes me sick that we can't say a proper goodbye to our loved ones when they leave us. It makes me angry. It makes me withdrawl. The amount of regrets I have--the things I needed to tell him. Christ. I wrote him a four-page Grandparent's Day card thanking him for raising his son (my father), having created the best father and friend I could ever ask for. And it was sitting on my kitchen counter up until his death. I blanked on sending it. I almost fainted when I saw it the other day. Words can't express my regret. Please, tell everyone how you feel now. I can't explain what it feels like to have passed on that opportunity endless times.

INSATIABLE said:

He knows....he always did.


This past sunday Valory and i went to his grave, it was remembrance day and o always think of him that day. He was a naval officer. Last year i planted a rose for him and for Valory's mom mom, at his grave. we went and laid flowers for them both. It is 10 year since they both passed and iknow that they both know how we feel. They are still here all the time we keep them alive. Truly. In our hearts and minds they share our day, drive us, are proud and sad.....but with us.

They made us who we are.....they are not gone....just sleeping

Luminous beings are we--not this crude matter! -- Yoda, 1983


I'm probably going to make alot of people think when I say this, but starting about 5 years ago, I started viewing people as "processes" and not absolute concrete things. I've been able to reaffirm this with my nephews, as they are not the same people as they were just 3 years ago, and 3 years from now they won't be the same people that they are from now.

It's very hard for me to get my mind around, as I've only actually been to two funerals, and both times, I only viewed the body on one, and the other (my dad) chose to be cremated, so he was essential a box of ashes that I was able to hold in my hands as placed him in the ground to be buried.

Contrary to popular belief I am deeply spiritual in my way of thinking in my personal life, and it's caused me to look at everybody in my everyday life and see the impermanence of it all. My mom, for example is 63 years old, and when I view her, still healthy and still able bodied, I actually see as she was 20 years ago, in addition to seeing her on the sick bed, frail and unable to help herself. It sound completely morbid, but I'm seeing her as a process , one that I myself am going through at a different stage--one that my nephews are going through at a much earlier stage.

We cling and we grasp desperately for that fleetng permanence in everything. In marriage, in motherhood, in fatherhood, in every aspect of our lives. But marriages are severed by sickness and death, motherhood gives way to a bit of loneliness, etc. etc. Nothing stays the same.

This is why viewing the body that passed away is something I won't want to do. When my mother passes or those I love pass, the vessel they used no longer supports that process I so cherished. The tombstone over their grave won't even be an adequate pointer to my memory of them. I suppose I will just spend the rest of my days happy to have known them, and regretting the bad times.

It struck me that I don't actually think normally to some when I saw Brokeback mountain. When Heath Ledger's character grasps the shirt of his dead lover and smells it and clings to it, it was like slapping me in the face. He was associating this object to his love of the guy. I never viewed things of others (including their bodies) as representative of who there are. Sometime in my life, it somehow dissipated.


I think it does't matter in the end how we come to terms with grief, or how we learn to cherish the memory of those we love. Whats important is that it strengthens us, doesn't break us, in the process of it all, we apply a bit of compassion. We'll all be that body in that casket one day, sooner than I'd care to think about it.

recollections from when i was 10... i touched my sisters hand before the funeral
and in that moment understood very clearly that dead is dead. nothing left resembling life in that touch.

and yet my other sister was the one who found her neighbor dead recently and was surprised by many things. even though the woman had been dead for two days (realizing that after) there was such an uncertainty as to if there was anything that could be done for her. her color was normal and she felt room temperature-ish. we have too many notions about death from television i think.

mach

Imago said:

Dan, right-on. It seems most people are more comfortable with viewing people as two-dimensional, black&white concrete objects; their realities encompassing so little and rejecting so much. The individual's vacuum of comfort is small, tight, and cozy--and any new concepts such as yours above are unsettling. Yet, it shouldn't be that way. When we demolish the walls around us who define who we were, are, and CAN be, we allow ourselves deeper oceans and taller skies. We can be more. We can be better versions of ourselves. Nothing in our past defines or entraps us today.

INSATIABLE said:

You, we could very close friends if not for the way you dress and all.

Imago said:

Imago said:

Amen brotha friend

emm said:

Mach said:

INSATIABLE said:

Thank you, hon.

I'm so sorry about your, Opa, sweetie. Have you tried writing a letter to him? Or, talking to him and telling him how you feel? I know it sounds a little strange, but it's helping me in coming to terms with the death of my sister.

Imago said:

right on, Dan.

applekisses said:

My Paternal Grandmother died when I was 13 - she was at that time one of my best friends. That is what I did, wrote her

Imago said:

When my grandmother passsed I wanted a coat she always wore when working outside. She hadnt wore it in ages and likely had throwen it away.
I guess it was just associated with a time and the only time i felt anyone in my family cared for me and truly happy.
This thread sucks.

emm said:

People have told me how that feels. I cant do that. I wanted to touch my grandfather's hand but i couldnt.
I get physically ill at funerals thats why I hardly go. The smell, the scene, everything makes me really sick.

DanceWme said:

Yeah - I can relate to the "smell" part

Imago said:

You are right about coming to terms with the lose, getting stronger from it and cherishing that person (creature).
I have been thinking a lot about death lately , not just death but change & balance.
I know the death of a human and a pet do not compare but it is the most recent thing close to me that has died.
I always imagined how I would feel when I had to put my dog down or when it died. I tried to prepare myself for the day since we all know it is going to happen. When the time did come that I had to make the decision to put him to rest..I thought it would kill me. The decision of if I should do it nearly did kill me. Once I made the decision to do it, I knew that I had to be with him, holding him when it was happening. I knew that I could not be a good master and companion if I handed him over to some stranger and let him go through that alone. I wanted to be the last person he saw and the last voice he heard telling him that I love him. Never before did I think I could hold his dead limp body once he was gone but that day after he stopped breathing and the vet told me he was gone, I could not let go. I know that it was just his shell and he was no longer with me but I just needed a few moments to feel him and know that he was gone. Just to help me move on.. I said my goodbyes and felt his soft fur one last time (well I had cut locks of his hair the night before as I laid in bed and told him stories about his entire life and I said my thank you's to him while he was still with me).
He never felt cold to me after he was gone.
I must admit that it was hard to leave him there on the cold metal table. It was the first time I had ever gone through anything like that before in my life.

It brings me back to balance..as everything in our life we need balance.

I could never imagine being without him but I knew I had to let him go and I had to do it while he was feeling good that day as hard as that was.
I had to find the balance to do what was right for him and for me..though I wanted to hold on to him forever.
I will never forget him because he was a huge part of my everyday life for 13 years. My only constant companion for my adult life.
I will always cherish him and I did have him cremated and brought him with me. I did not get a fancy expensive urn and he is not on the mantle above the fireplace for all to see. He is in a white plastic box until I find the strength to let him go completely. We will take him somewhere beautiful and meaningful with lots of squirrels.

shanti0608 said:

shanti0608 said:

I love you

mdiver said:

I love you too hun






Oh wait, you meant her .

Imago said:

Dan i swear when you stay with us you will sleep in fear of the retribution i am gonna wreak on you Thanks for making me laugh man...i needed that

mdiver said:

All I know is I am sleeping in the spare room with the door locked...