Personally, I wouldn't encourage anyone to speak ebonics, I think the idea of making it a language is stupid..it's just another way of seperating people, particular the races. My only problem is when I hear people speak ebonics when they know they don't speak that way. I truly believe that some people simply can't speak the correct English language the way society expects, and that has nothing to do with their education level, upbringing or literacy skills.

Personally, I wouldn't encourage anyone to speak ebonics, I think the idea of making it a language is stupid..it's just another way of seperating people, particular the races. My only problem is when I hear people speak ebonics when they know they don't speak that way. I truly believe that some people simply can't speak the correct English language the way society expects, and that has nothing to do with their education level, upbringing or literacy skills.

AbucahX said:

Yep... I agree with you and I believe that you are right.

EDIT: I believe that everyone can learn to speak proper English if they put their mind to it.
...
[This message was edited Mon Oct 14 19:59:27 PDT 2002 by IceNine]

AbucahX said:

What is it do you think that some people can't speak English correctly? Do you believe that it has to do with what people hear around them as they are growing up or that it could be a result of a physicality?
Forgive my ignorance, but this is a very interesting topic to me and I love to learn more about what other people's opinions are based upon.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Oh get real. You mean to tell me that the only people who migrated to the South were from only one part of England? If you believe that then you wasted time doing the research.

Crikey, what's that lingo you sheilas are talkin'?

The only ebonics I really dislike is the "valley girl" talk. I heard 2 girls like talking so like valley girl and they sounded so dumb. It might have been cool at the time but they sure sounded as if they had no brains "gag me with a spoon"...I wanted to hurl. Any comments???

I am just as "offended" when I hear anyone bastardize the English language.

IceNine said:

Me too! I can't stand the way you American's have murdered our beautiful langauge.

Ice, how does one define the proper use of a language? I realize that there are language institutes and such which make up big books of grammar rules. However, the purpose of language is communication. If I say, "y'all, Prince's Seattle concert was da bomb", and my fellow English speakers understand me, what's the problem?


I think it is elitist and, yes, racist to claim that people who don't use "university english" are bastardizing the language, in a negative sense. And I say this as an educated middle-class white native northern girl.

I would also point out that there are some aspects of the "Ebonics" grammar that are genuinely different than standard English, but are actually common in other languages. For example, many languages have a formalized "y'all", an informal plural "you" conjugation of their verbs. English lacks this, but it is useful in distinguishing speech toward formal and informal groups, and "y'all" recaptures that.

Also, the use of "be", as in, "he be trippin'". It means not just "he is trippin' right now", but, "he is a person who is trippin' in general, or on an ongoing basis, and especially right now". Other languages, including Spanish I've been told, have this as a formal past tense form. It is difficult, as you see in my attempt, to capture that sense of an ongoing and currently instantiated trait, unless you use the Ebonics innovation.

So, I'm willing to claim that Ebonics actually contains language elements that are unique and elegant, and add to the communication element of language, which is after all very fundamental to its purpose. It's more than slang.

So there.

Doves,
Mel!ssa
[This message was edited Tue Oct 15 12:42:48 PDT 2002 by tackam]

Mel!ssa,

I generally agree with your posts, but whoever told you that "He be trippin'" is a valid use of the English language is, well, tripping.

Thanks,

Tommy

You've missed my point(s), which I'll forgive since you say you generally agree with my posts.

1. If a word or phrase is effective in communicating a point between two English speakers, than it IS a valid use of the English language, if you think that the purpose of language is to communicate, rather than to match up with some book of rules.
2. Nobody said that the use of "be" as in Ebonics is a formal part of standard English. The point is, there are other languages where there are equivilent terms that DO hold a formal place in the language. Standard English is actually lacking an equivilent.

A language that follows the rules and refuses useful innovation is a DEAD LANGUAGE.

Doves,
Mel!ssa

Free expression for all I say. It would be a mighty boring and drearily conformist world if everyone walked around speaking like the Queen of England.

tackam said:

A quick question:

Would you like to see ebonics become the standard language for English communications, or do you think that it sounds rather unintelligent?

luv4u said:

The valley girl bit was really lame too... a terrible vernacular... but they didn't really invent new words, they usually invented stupid, annoying ways to use actual words.

Oh god, I wish you hadn't reminded me of that sad part of our history...

"Barf out... gag me with a spoon..."

come here I gotta axe you somethin.

Essence said:

That is true too...

IceNine said:

Also true and alluded to by Doves and AbucahX is the slightly nasty, intolerant nature of villainising an idiosyncratic use of language born out of enslavement and underprivileged, segregated, education opportunities. This accepted, you expect English spoken to the same defintion you yourself learned?