JustErin said:

This totally makes sense. That's why I hate putting qualifiers on relationships. It is what it is. The only thing I believe in clarifying up front is that I don't want commitment. That way no one gets hurt. That doesn't mean we can't see each other on a regular basis. It doesn't mean you can't stay over (although not generally preferred). It doesn't mean you can't introduce me to your friends. It's not even a personal statement about what I think of commitment. I just know I'm not there yet. So why pretend?

HereToRockYourWorld said:

Like you said already, the "for better or worse" vow is delusional and naive at best. You can not predict the future and you absolutely can not predict anything when it comes to matters of the heart. I'm not saying that it could never work out, I'm just saying that you can never really say for certain that it absolutely will work out.

I dunno....it's all lip service anyway and really, anyone with half a brain knows that at the end of the day words are just words, labels are just labels. All anyone can do realistically is "try" and admitting that is really not a big deal nor does admitting that take any validity away from a relationship.

JustErin said:

sadly people these days view marriage as a "try" as well, if it doesn't work you can just get divorced

ZombieKitten said:

True. And equally sad is that many of them think that they're doing something better than those of us who chose not to commit. I know I would only contribute to the already ridiculous divorce rate in America, so I feel I'm being tremendously responsible in my decision making.

violator said:

OK, wait a second here.

Marriage is no different from just having a relationship. It's just a label placed on a relationship, a label that is used to somehow mean that people actually know what they are doing and know how things will be. Well, they don't....they can't.

Marriage is a "try" no matter how much people want to believe it's not.

JustErin said:

It is different. I don't want to have to worry about splitting up half of my property if my relationship doesn't work. I don't want to have to pay someone to represent me in court because I realized my relationship didn't work. I don't want the stigma from family, friends and co-workers that often comes with abandoning a marriage.

It is different.

violator said:

Well, yes. It's certainly different in that aspect but that's not what I am talking about.

Those are all reasons why I never wish to be married, but what I am saying is that really, relationship wise it's the same thing - take away all that other stuff and it's exactly the same. And not wanting to go through all that you listed should not be a reason to make some silly vow or think that it will be a happy ever after situation. Marriage is a "try" not a "definite".

See what I am saying?

JustErin said:

I do understand what you're saying. Marriage, at it's heart, is a huge leap of faith like any other relationship.

violator said:

I'm getting married and I don't think people who don't are not as good as I am. That's ignorant. I've found the love of my life and all of the immature relationships I've been through have lead me to this person. It's funny because my friends are still looking and dealing with the bullshit of being in relationships that are not right for them. I'm just supportive but never judgmental, everyone's on their own path.

My girl has everything I would want in a friend, lover and otherwise. This is actually the first person that I said, "I can see myself with this person forever". She's far from perfect but neither am I. Once you realize that looks fade and the human being you are when you're old is all you've got, perspective shifts to reality. Relationships are work, even with this woman that I can't seem to get enough of. Coming from a divorced fam, I thought I would never get married but life is a gamble. I can always get more "stuff" if she wants to leave and take it so be it but she wouldn't because she feels like I do. Marriage is just the legality of making a commitment to someone but it's also a sign of respect to her family that I'm not afraid to state to the world that this is the love of my life and no matter what, I'm sticking with her. I agree the vows are a little old but it has less to do with the words and more to do with action and integrity.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

Well there's "trying" and then there's "trying".

Marriage or no marriage, I personally think people break up too easily these days. "Low maintenance living" is the name of the game and if something suddenly seems like a challenge or causes stress or even a certain degree of suffering, they bail out and don't look back. I don't know if it's because they weren't all that dedicated to the other person to begin with, or if it's because they figure there are better (=less demanding) people out there that they would prefer instead, or if it's just plain laziness or selfishness, but the willingness to fight for what they once believed in seems to be lacking. Of course there's an invisible yet important line somewhere that if crossed means you're not fighting and making progress anymore but rather beating your head against a brick wall, but in my opinion that point is rarely reached.

The personality factor is of course very relevant though. Everybody should try to figure out how they're wired and then, if needed, try to compensate for that. I'm part of the minority which tends to fight a bit too long so I should be aware of that and try to evaluate the drawbacks at an earlier stage. Others give up much too easily, and they should try to disregard the initial discomfort, pay attention to things outside themselves and focus on the bigger picture and the possibilities it potentially offers.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

Well you're obviously not trying.

retina said:

I basically just said I agree with you.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

I'm glad to hear it.

retina said:

I couldn't agree more.

CarrieMpls said:

Hang on a minute, that must mean that...I...am....Anxiety!

retina said:

Not yet. We'll have to agree on at least 5,000 other things first.

CarrieMpls said:

CarrieMpls said:

At the end of the day, I look out for me and if a relationship is causing stress because of a conflict of personality or whatever I'm just not willing to keep trying. I'm so over "suffering" in a relationship and will not tolerate it anymore.

I can only speak for myself but for me, it's about finding someone that is better suited to my needs and certainly not about laziness. And to be honest, when it comes to romantic relationships, I don't care if I am considered "selfish" by some because my emotional wellbeing is the most important thing in my life and has a direct effect on those around me (like my son). Is that selfish really? I don't think so.

I'd rather be alone and happy than with someone and unhappy.

JustErin said:

Smart girl!

JustErin said:

Stick to your guns on this and make an effort to always have an eye out, the guy is out there. I felt the same exact way. The person is out there, I'm living proof.

Slave2daGroove said:

well explained.

You are most certainly right, relationships are work. I do believe that there is a strong difference between a couple who lives together and a married couple living as a family. When you say those vows, they are before God. I take that seriously. If you don't want a serious committment then don't get married. See it makes no difference to me what path you choose, if you don't want to get married and prefer a relationship of "just living together" then hey, different strokes for different folks. I just say that for me, I really see myself living by myself for a while before even marrying anyone. And I really don't want to deal with the "live together" situation unless I really have to, for reasons of saving money for a wedding, because I absolutely don't see myself living with a guy just to be living with him.

Now as far as my boyfriend goes, he says that he can't see himself marrying anyone without living with them for a while first. So we have different views of it. If we really want to make our relationship work, then we would compromise one way or the other...but since we aren't quite talking marriage yet, my head is staying in the newspaper looking a nice affordable townhouse for myself.

JustErin said:

Dammit! I wrote a long response to this and it must have gottne lost somewhere.

Suffice to say, I agree with you as well. But you're smart enough not to commit to anything you can't follow through on. And that's the best anyone can ask.

JustErin said:

I think marriage is different, I certainly approach it differently. Marriage is hard work for the long term. It isn't let's just see how it turns out, it is MAKE THIS WORK. Admittedly I haven't had a serious relationship with a "future together" before I married, (and I know there are couples who are planning to stay together till the end of their days) but until I married I didn't commit seriously. Getting married did take a great relationship to a deeper level.

Slave2daGroove said:

I agree. It is ignorant and it's unfortunate that people feel it necessary to judge, but believe me, I get it quite often. Even from some of the couples that I'm friends with.

And understand that I'm not poo-pooing marriage in general. Just not now. As with most things in life, there's no way to say for certain how you're going to feel down the line. I do know at some point I will want to settle down with someone. One of my biggest fears is growing old and dying alone. But I do know that the time isn't now.

violator said:

There is certainly no point going around saying you want to get married when you don't even know who to

JustErin said:

Well, we've already talked about this and you know what my opinion is.

i was 15 when my 20 yr old sister was having her now-husband-then-boyfriend move in with her. there had been arguments between my father and my sister and most recently at this time a fight that almost got physical. totally astounding and bewildering to come from our family.

so my sister goes back to the city. this leaves me at the supper table with them. dad is ranting and turns to me and asks "you wouldn't ever live with a man before marriage would you?" and i will never ever forget the look of utter despair on his face when i said that i would. he turned to mom and said incredulously "what have we done?"

as if somehow raising daughters that can think for ourselves was a bad thing.

retina said:

Oh yes, you've made it very clear to me in private but since this is a public forum and we are all talking publicly about this topic, I would think it would make sense to post your opinion.