ZombieKitten said:

I love how candid you are.

NDRU said:

I'd like a cat.

okay, I have a slight fear of adoption. Part of it stems from my belief in karma, that kids are not the result of nurturing, but what they come with. I have a good friend who adopted a baby who turned out to be severely psychotic. It caused a lot of heartached for her (still does) and the rest of the family. Her natural born kids were affected immensely. It is a nice idea, I do believe in it, but something about it feels uncomfortable.

Not that I can imagine going through childbirth, especially at this age.

heartbeatocean said:

But people who grow up with their biological parents have mental illness, too. I guess you might second guess the adoption, though, if something like that happened. Either way you're taking a huge risk, commitment, gamble, etc. bringing another human into your home for 18 or 35 years.

I like cats, too

It's funny because my nephews are 16, 14 and 12 and my sister just had her 4th child in May and when they start complaining about having to take care of her I tell them when they decide they are going to have sex to make sure they wear a condom cuz imagine doing it full time. They just go

Anxiety said:

Lothan said:

Something else we two have in common.

heartbeatocean said:

thank you. I can't say these things to people I know well, how sad is that! my in laws would hate my guts

ZombieKitten said:

Meanwhile, this is how the majority of people will feel. Dumb that peoople can't just admit it. Kids are hard ass work!

ZombieKitten said:

I didn't notice that above post. I agree having kids to fill some void is a terrible reason!

But I could see missing out on a very basic human function (maybe humans' only function, honestly) might create additional void.

btw, It's good to be honest with us, but don't tell your kids! They'll hold it against you their whole lives!

NDRU said:

this I totally agree with

and I have never forgiven my dad for telling my sister and me we were both accidents that pretty much wrecked his life


my boys will grow up knowing they were all very wanted which they were ( before we found out what it was like havin them )

ZombieKitten said:

Well at least your better than Ellen Degeneres and didn't give them to your hairdresser

ZombieKitten said:

Yeah, it's so stupid to say a kid wrecks a life. Only a horny dad can wreck his own life! But it takes many years to realize that. By then the damage is done.

NDRU said:

my mum was on the pill but both times it failed her, but really, do we need to know that?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

some kind of social stigma, all new mothers get together, huddled in a bunch and wonder why nobody told them, and hope someone else will be the first to say it, and somebody says instead how wonderful and fulfilling motherhood is, and the others think "oh shit, it's just ME that isn't getting it" and no wonder they suffer their PND alone so often.

ZombieKitten said:

Exactly, but behind closed doors, 9 out of 10 of them are losing their damn minds I love that someone is saying the obvious. It's not that you don't love the kids, it's just can the job description be shorter than a full blown rap sheet and require a little less energy than a nuclear power plant can provide in a year?



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[Edited 10/17/07 16:49pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

if I had the choice to do it again though, I think I still would

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

What I find odd is the romanticizing folks do about their relationships to their kids, and then projecting that to others. I mean, there's no doubt in my mind that parents, particularly mothers develop strong bonds with their kids, but the notion that it's a human bond unmatched by any other, to me, is up to the individual. I just didn't see that "bond" very much when I was growing up with my parents, nor my friends and their parents. Rather, it was something that seemed like they had to work towards very hard, just like any other relationship. The only thing that I see distinguishing that bond from others i the emotional, personal, and financial stakes are higher--it's a relationship most folks know they can't fuck up. But considering how many folks do fuck it up, I don't think it's intrinsically any more hardwired than other bonds folks would have.

Personally, I would NEVER want to raise a child. Helping my sister raise her sons was enough for me to realize this. It's too much work, and I'm too selfish.

Imago said:

I think there is an instinctive almost animalistic thing between mothers and babies, you know like being willing to kill for the sake of that child. The unconditional aspect of it runs one way - parent>child, I disagree that bond isn't something apart from all other relationships.

I don't relate to the kids that well beyond about age 3, which is, funnily enough when they really start to be their own person and start to have their own opinions and DISAGREE with me babies are nice, they just lie there and you can cuddle them all you want. Older kids are incredibly self-centred and demanding, and teaching them to be good humans is a lengthy, repetitive process.

ZombieKitten said:

I don't think it applies to all women though. When it does, the bond is very strong.

But with my sister, it just wasn't there. She loved her boys based on principle and what she believed was right---but has admitted to me she thought it would be more automatic. It was something she had to work at.

For me what my nephews taught me was patience. Albeit, I'm not perfect at it. But there are just times when you can't be an asshole, and being around a kid is one of those times. I do love them very much, but my experience with them only reaffirmed my decision not to pursue having kids. I do adore them and find the stages in life they go through interesting though. It seems the faster they change, their more etched in stone I feel.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

new mothers need a place where they can talk openly without fear of criticism. the stress can be really extreme at times. especially when kids get older as Charlotte said. Babies just lay there i swear sometimes when my sons argue (they are 12, 9, and 7) I just shut my room door in order to keep my sanity. Then when i'm ready I come out with a solution. Usually its after school and in the evening so everyone ends up going to bed early after eating. Or I put them to work doing chores. then NOBODY wants to argue

It took me awhile to respond to thread
because
reading this statement as a Puerto Rican,
I found myself over-dosing on oxymorons

Imago said:

that is true, and I think it can be a horrifying feeling that what you came to expect just never came and you feel like a failure because everyone assumes you SHOULD feel this way. But let me clarify, that extreme bond I only felt when they were little babies, now as 6 and 7 yo, I feel more like your sister, that I love them and care for them because it is my duty, not because I am compelled to by a mysterious force.

heybaby said:

the witching hour. BRIBERY

ZombieKitten said:

OK, here is an aspect that I really have a problem with. Gifting out of guilt. The thing that has been the hardest about being involved with my sister and the kids is having standards and ideals about how to raise them and how to teach them to be good people and their scumbag father has been there most of the way to tear down every inch of progress I or others have made for the kids. Therefore, they are fucking messes and there are days when they act out and it takes all of me to not beat the living shit out of them. That is what I feel sometimes but I never raise my hands to them because that is how their father treated them and I will NOT be his replacement in their life. I want to be a positive and loving force but there are those days.....especially since they are young teens. Good lord

Well, say there is a big drama and a blow up with the kids and they are out of control and you are trying to get them in line. Well later, I feel bad about this because they are messed up for a reason and I realize that and even though they may not deserve rewards or gifts or money or anything like that, I know I often give to them out of my guilt for being mean or harsh or coming down on them, but the reality is they need that because otherwise they would be like wild horses and completely out of control. Does anyone else deal with this? I know the thing to do is to have a Supernanny like approach but I'm no supernanny.

susannah said:

Same here. Raising a family is too much work, and I don't want the emotional & financial responsibility that goes with it. Plus I would never bring a black child into this corrupt, stinking, hate-filled world we live in.

Like most of you who have replied, I have 2 children that have been the best thing I (and my wife) ever accomplished.

However, getting back to the original post, I also am friends with a couple that would make excellent parents. Thet are both intelligent, caring, wonderful people who have great jobs and, in my opinion, would make great parents. They have decided not to have children because, they don't think they could be totally committed to their kids. I know they would, but at the same time, I respect them tremendously for not having children when they're not 100% committed to being parents. The world needs more people who could think things out like they have.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

yeah what a dilemma

I'm pretty tough on my kids, if they do the wrong thing I take away their priviliges, like computer time etc. To get them to clean up they can have dessert or not, which always works but my kids are still little

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

The only things your gifts mean to the kids - I'm venturing to bet - is that they remind them of their time with you.

Your time is worth waaay more. They are not done growing up yet.