Here'a a post from the last time this debate went around. These sources are attributed in each stat.

In 2001, the National Center for Health Statistics listed homicide as the fourth leading cause of death for children ages 1 through 4, fourth for youth ages 5 through 14, and second for persons ages 15 through 24. (National Center for Health Statistics. Death and Death Rates by Leading Causes of Death and Age: 2001.)

The U.S. has the highest rates of childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among industrialized countries. (CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, February 7, 1997, Vol 46, No. 5, Rates of Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm-Related Death Among Children in 26 Industrialized Countries.)

The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged 15 years or less was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 industrialized countries combined. (CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, February 7, 1997, Vol. 46, No. 5, Rates of Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm-Related Death Among Children in 26 Industrialized Countries)

In 1996, handguns were used to murder 2 people in New Zealand , 15 in Japan , 30 in Great Britain , 106 in Canada , 213 in Germany and 9,390 in the United States . (Legal Community Against Violence, 2000)

Each year an estimated $2.3 billion are spent on medical care for the nation's gunshot victims. Almost half of that sum is paid by U.S. taxpayers. (Legal Community Against Violence, 2000)

Guns in this country cause the death of approximately 12 young people (those 19 years of age and under) each day. The overall firearm-related death rate among children under the age of 15 is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Legal Community Against Violence, 2000)

This is terrible!

i don't know what is more shocking: the fact that these kids have not been taught/controlled properly or the fact that there are a lot of americans running to be first in line to give up their freedoms for a false sense of safety.

it's reasoning shared by some of you here that has brought us the usa patriot act, the real id concept, and radio frequency chips in our new passports.

sassybritches said:

explain to me then how citizens in countries which have banned guns manage to avoid being mowed down by all the 'bad men with guns' you keep mentioning? it's not a fucking coincidence. & using the patriot act and those other things as a slippery slope style of reasoning is pretty weak, imo.

sassybritches said:

I had this whole long drawn out reply typed out and then I thought to myself: it don't matter. You are right and damn anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Lothan said:

while that's often times true......i would still enjoy the dialogue.

sassybritches said:

you have no intention of actually letting an informed dialogue affect your opinions, as though you're infallible?

wow.

evenstar said:

ok, so don't just tell me it's weak but tell me WHY it's weak. otherwise i have to assume you're blowing the smoke of some dead dogma up my ass.

as for other countries...i don't know. i don't live there and i don't know the history of these "other" countries you're speaking of. what i do know is that guns have been here for years. there is a black market for criminals who want them and that market is alive and well. just like keeping drugs illegal has actually harmed the US's "war on drugs" (which is in it's 30-something-ish year), providing only one route to obtain a weapon would increase the use of that one route.

evenstar said:

i was joking about being right, hence the ...lighten up a bit.
[Edited 10/11/07 12:51pm]

sassybritches said:

i think it's weak because you can apply it to almost any situation. phantom hypothetical threats along the lines of 'uh oh, if you think that way then NATURALLY these even worse things will happen' can't really convince anyone.

and dead dogma? what?

as was already posted on this thread-

The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged 15 years or less was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 industrialized countries combined. (CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, February 7, 1997, Vol. 46, No. 5, Rates of Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm-Related Death Among Children in 26 Industrialized Countries)

In 1996, handguns were used to murder 2 people in New Zealand , 15 in Japan , 30 in Great Britain , 106 in Canada , 213 in Germany and 9,390 in the United States . (Legal Community Against Violence, 2000)

drugs and guns are entirely different. guns are only used for one thing. people don't buy drugs intending to kill someone else (most of the time )...i don't see how comparing banned items of a separate nature works here.

sassybritches said:

sorry. i work in an office on a college campus, and we just went through a practice lock down drill (in case there's a gun threat) this morning. so, i'm not finding this terribly funny.

evenstar said:

you'll have a brain hemorrhage if you keep that stress level so high.

sassybritches said:

evenstar said:

first of all, i'm not applying to "any" scenario, i'm applying it to this scenario.

is it not true that out of fear for safety, the american people sat silent while the politicians ran straight ahead, no questions asked, to passing the usa patriot act? is it not true that out of fear for safety many politicans and american citizens support the real id bill? of course, all of the above is in fact true. out of fear for safety the american people have sacrificed, or at least compromised, many of their freedoms. this is the exact same mentality behind taking away our right to bear and keep arms. if it's not, tell me how you come to that conclusion.

if you're not sure what a dead dogma is, just check out John Stuart Mill's "On Liberty." it's a great read and it only gets better with repeated readings!
[Edited 10/11/07 13:17pm]

sassybritches said:

Arrogance only makes your responses taken less seriously.

What's really scary is his blog on myspace. I think you can still do a search on his name and it comes up.

sassybritches said:

this is totally off-topic, but the only reason that fear worked on people was the 'war on terror' phrase this administration loves so damn much. the difference there is that freedoms that don't harm anyone else are being taken away, while guns DO harm others. it's silly that it really comes down to whether or not the constitution meant individuals or organized militias, and unless it's ruled one way or the other nothing will ever be solved.

aaah, the libertarian bible. maybe i will check it out.

ArielB said:

you can call it arrogant if you want but you still haven't answered.

sassybritches said:

I'm not an American, and I don't know anything about your war against drugs. your assumption on the other hand is still an arrogant one.

But I'll play your game - Let's make tanks available for everyone. that way we could defend ourselves better and well, vehicles will be safer to drive.
Your way of life is "the stronger survives", just like a typical bully.

ArielB said:

then act like it.

sassybritches said:

Did I ever say I did know anything about your war against drugs?
Again with your stupid assumptions. seriously, this is a fucked up discussion and a waste of time, when you don't listen and make up things.

"Mom, can you get me a bunch of guns at the wal mart?"

"sure son, it's your right as an american!"

PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- The mother of a 14-year-old boy accused of planning a "Columbine-type" event at a high school was arrested Friday morning, prosecutors said.

Michele Cossey, 46, of Plymouth Meeting was charged with six criminal counts in connection with buying her son firearms and bomb-making equipment, including a .22-caliber handgun, a .22-caliber rifle and a 9mm semiautomatic rifle.

The charges are unlawful transfer of a fiream, possession of a firearm by a minor, corruption of a minor, endangering the welfare of a child and two counts of reckless endangerment.

A search of the boy's home Wednesday outside Philadelphia turned up the rifle, about 30 air-powered guns, swords, knives, a bomb-making book and videos of the 1999 Columbine High School attack.

Montgomery County District Attorney Bruce Castor Jr. said the weapons were plainly visible in the boy's bedroom.

During a hearing Friday in juvenile court, a judge ruled authorities could continue to hold the teen during their investigation.

The judge also ordered psychiatric and educational achievement evaluations for the youth, who was taken into custody Wednesday night.

The teen was charged as a juvenile with solicitation to commit terror and other counts and was being held at a youth facility.

As Cossey sat sobbing in the courtroom before the hearing, Castor walked over to her and informed her that he had a warrant for her arrest. He told her to go after the hearing to his office on a lower floor of the courthouse, where the warrant was served.

Cossey is not alleged to have helped plot any attack, Castor said Thursday night.

"I don't see any evidence that leads me to conclude that she knew that this attack was planned or anything of that nature," Castor told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360."

But he said he thinks charges against her are justified.

"I think you have a parent who has fallen down on the job in supervising the child, perhaps indulgent on the child because she knows he has issues," he said before her arrest.

Police also found seven hand grenades, four of them operational, said Joe Lawrence, deputy chief of the Plymouth Township police. The teenager said the two .22-caliber weapons were stored at a friend's house.

If the teen is found delinquent, he could face long-term detention and counseling. The boy's father also could face criminal charges pending an investigation, police said.

In addition to the weapons, authorities found a hand-painted Nazi flag and videos about the Columbine shootings, Castor said. Watch Castor explain why he is upset with the parents »

"It is my judgment that this individual considered that something to be glorified and was doing so," he said.

Two students opened fire at Columbine in Littleton, Colorado, on April 20, 1999. They killed 13 people and wounded 23 others before killing themselves.

School officials said police acted on a tip from a Plymouth Whitemarsh High School student and his father. They said they believe the tip was prompted by Wednesday's shooting at a school in Cleveland, Ohio.

Police say they received the tip at 7:30 p.m. Wednesday and took the youth into custody at his home around 10. He was "nonchalant" when arrested, Lawrence said.

The grenades were made with plastic casings that authorities believe the boy bought on the Internet, Lawrence said. The operational hand grenades included black powder, BBs and a fuse believed used in fireworks. The boy was making the grenades in his bedroom, Lawrence said.

Police also found 30 weapons that fire BBs and the 9 mm semiautomatic rifle with a magazine that could hold 30 rounds of ammunition.

Castor said officials do not think others were involved.

"We have no information at this point that leads us to think this is other than an isolated individual who was trying to recruit others to help," he said.

"The boy who gave the tip was one who was trying to be recruited," he added. "He was a friend of the boy in the loosest terms."

Plymouth Whitemarsh High officials said the boy is not a student at the school.

"This was a youth in the community who has not been enrolled in school since spring of 2006," said Dave Sherman, spokesman for the school.

The public high school in Plymouth Meeting has 1,591 students in grades nine through 12. Classes were canceled because of the incident, school officials said Thursday.

Plymouth Township is about 15 miles northwest of Philadelphia.

I taught one year at an Alternative High School. The school was small and did not have many discipline problems. I have seen in the news that two of the students have been charged with murder since then. If it's happening in the streets, it is bound to happen in the schools. It could happen anywhere.

Well maybe now schools will take kids more seriously when they make threats or bully others.

Silly me! Posting something on topic before reading the posts and learning it is has been thread jacked and turned into an anti-freedom to own guns kind of thing.

I might as well go along! (I do not want to get hurt). The 2nd Amendment does give people the right to own and bare arms. That right is not unlimited as some seem to think. But the fact is, in this case, the kid got the gun illegally. So it is not a gun rights issue. It is a social issue. As much as a hate him Mike Moore had some points about the social and cultural issues that seems to impact the US in terms of gun violence. The fact that guns are easy to obtain contributes but in a close combat situation a knife can be even more effective as istis silent. One shot from a gun tends to alert people, giving the surprise advantage to the knife man.
[Edited 10/12/07 9:14am]

Mars23 said:

Jeez, don't these folks sound like just the most wonderful family?